I would think that the “level of control” argument that the agents used is nowhere near the level of control that other companies (McDonalds, Subway, etc) place on their franchises & independent contractors.
I was able to set in a meeting with the attorneys that represented the American Family agents and about 150 agents from Allstate and Farmers. We viewed the video depositions of supervisors with American Family. The American Family supervisors admitted to actions of control over the agents that clearly treated the agents as employees. I was stunned that the original verdict was overturned. A law was recently passed in California that goes into effect 1/1/2020 which was partially meant to address the abuses by companies over the ‘independent contractors’. The higher courts don’t want to address this problem as it opens a box of worms for carriers that spend lots of money lobbying legislatures.
Your cynicism and lack of understanding of the California law aren’t flattering to you.
The Supreme Court is NOT subject to pressure from lobbyists.
And there are lots of independent contractors scooped up in the California law who don’t WANT to be employees. They don’t want to have to take direction, report at certain hours, commit to a certain amount of work per week, etc. They LIKE being free to run their own ship. To take work they like and reject work they don’t like. Think accountants, consultants, lawyers with one or two big clients, etc.
Not to mention UBER drivers who like being independent.
The Leftist move to make every decision for everyone by forcing everyone into the same box doesn’t work for every individual.The Supreme Court simply defended this historical right of people to do what they want and how they want it.
You might be right to a point, people would perfer to be Individuals and own their own business as promised, except in this case, company claims they own everything and control every facets of you work product. So at end of day you are an employee.
The sad part of this, and I am speaking firsthand from the insurance agency vs. carrier relationships: Especially on the captive side(State Farm, Farmers, Allstate) the carriers will continue to have their cake and eat it too. The insurance agents I mentioned above, as well as independent agents, are 1099’d as independent contractors. However, carriers have long overstepped the line as far as the demands they are placing on their agents: The most common areas: 1. Required hours of operation. 2. Quotas established for certain lines of business. My question is why would any court not look as this as an over reach by the carriers? My guess is, follow the money trail.
Again, your cyncicm has no basis in fact. Judges don’t campaign for office and don’t take donors dollars or meet with lobbyists.
If these agents don’t like the rules, become independent agents. And independent agents have quotas from carriers; fail to meet the threshold and lose the market. In fact, every company in every industry has thresholds, whether the sales person is an employee or independent contractor.
Are you independent, yes many have quoting quotas, and some have writing quotas, like maybe 2 per month. But the big factor you overlook is if a you move from a company or part ways with a company your book moves with you. In this case lets just say it like it is, they take it or steal it or whatever you want to call it. So your entire investment is gone. They also claim they own everything, That clearly smells like an employee……so go back to the company, dont defend them.
On behalf of the company where I work, I’ve been trying to find cases where the ICs are appointed agents of an insurance broker/agency, not the insurance companies themselves. These ICs have separate agreements with all the 1099 verbiage, but as discussed above, the agency still maintains a level of control with regards to representation, productivity and exclusivity. Otherwise these ICs work from home and have flexible work times, etc. I don’t know how helpful the American Family case is to our situation since this case seemed fairly narrow as applying to ERISA as opposed to FLSA. Any thoughts that might help?
I would think that the “level of control” argument that the agents used is nowhere near the level of control that other companies (McDonalds, Subway, etc) place on their franchises & independent contractors.
I was able to set in a meeting with the attorneys that represented the American Family agents and about 150 agents from Allstate and Farmers. We viewed the video depositions of supervisors with American Family. The American Family supervisors admitted to actions of control over the agents that clearly treated the agents as employees. I was stunned that the original verdict was overturned. A law was recently passed in California that goes into effect 1/1/2020 which was partially meant to address the abuses by companies over the ‘independent contractors’. The higher courts don’t want to address this problem as it opens a box of worms for carriers that spend lots of money lobbying legislatures.
Your cynicism and lack of understanding of the California law aren’t flattering to you.
The Supreme Court is NOT subject to pressure from lobbyists.
And there are lots of independent contractors scooped up in the California law who don’t WANT to be employees. They don’t want to have to take direction, report at certain hours, commit to a certain amount of work per week, etc. They LIKE being free to run their own ship. To take work they like and reject work they don’t like. Think accountants, consultants, lawyers with one or two big clients, etc.
Not to mention UBER drivers who like being independent.
The Leftist move to make every decision for everyone by forcing everyone into the same box doesn’t work for every individual.The Supreme Court simply defended this historical right of people to do what they want and how they want it.
You might be right to a point, people would perfer to be Individuals and own their own business as promised, except in this case, company claims they own everything and control every facets of you work product. So at end of day you are an employee.
Yoru are absolutly correct, and that is just the tip of the iceberg
The sad part of this, and I am speaking firsthand from the insurance agency vs. carrier relationships: Especially on the captive side(State Farm, Farmers, Allstate) the carriers will continue to have their cake and eat it too. The insurance agents I mentioned above, as well as independent agents, are 1099’d as independent contractors. However, carriers have long overstepped the line as far as the demands they are placing on their agents: The most common areas: 1. Required hours of operation. 2. Quotas established for certain lines of business. My question is why would any court not look as this as an over reach by the carriers? My guess is, follow the money trail.
Again, your cyncicm has no basis in fact. Judges don’t campaign for office and don’t take donors dollars or meet with lobbyists.
If these agents don’t like the rules, become independent agents. And independent agents have quotas from carriers; fail to meet the threshold and lose the market. In fact, every company in every industry has thresholds, whether the sales person is an employee or independent contractor.
Are you independent, yes many have quoting quotas, and some have writing quotas, like maybe 2 per month. But the big factor you overlook is if a you move from a company or part ways with a company your book moves with you. In this case lets just say it like it is, they take it or steal it or whatever you want to call it. So your entire investment is gone. They also claim they own everything, That clearly smells like an employee……so go back to the company, dont defend them.
On behalf of the company where I work, I’ve been trying to find cases where the ICs are appointed agents of an insurance broker/agency, not the insurance companies themselves. These ICs have separate agreements with all the 1099 verbiage, but as discussed above, the agency still maintains a level of control with regards to representation, productivity and exclusivity. Otherwise these ICs work from home and have flexible work times, etc. I don’t know how helpful the American Family case is to our situation since this case seemed fairly narrow as applying to ERISA as opposed to FLSA. Any thoughts that might help?