Why We Can’t Wait Until It’s Safe to Lift Lockdowns: Opinion

By Faye Flam, Bloomberg Opinion | May 12, 2020

  • May 12, 2020 at 1:47 pm
    Will says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 32
    Thumb down 19

    Dreams, careers, and businesses cam be resurrected, people, not so much.

    Dreams, careers, and business have been temporally paused. Most aren’t permanently destroyed. Some businesses of course will never reopen. But you have to wonder if they were long term survivors anyway. The average small business lasts less than nine years. Those that do survive will be the ones that are most resilient, better run, and better financed. Capitalism is supposed to reward the best competitors.

    The lockdowns saved lives by keeping the healthcare system from being overrun. The lockdowns also bought time. Time to understand the virus. Time to secure more personal protective equipment, ventilators, and time to develop more effective treatments – some of which are coming on line even if they are in the “emergency approval” stage. And time to adapt to a new way of life.

    Yes, there is responsibility on the politicians. They were ill prepared, didn’t pay attention, and didn’t respond timely and didn’t listen to the science.

    But the rest of this is on us. All of us. We need to cooperate now. The best defense going forward in the immediate future is face masks, social distancing, washing our hands, and sanitizing and adapting our facilities to a new normal designed to prevent the spread of the disease. These last steps are the bridge that keeps us alive until fully effective treatments and vaccines are available.

    • May 12, 2020 at 2:06 pm
      Regular Reader says:
      Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 14
      Thumb down 26

      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • May 12, 2020 at 2:15 pm
        Rosenblatt says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 29
        Thumb down 14

        “Face masks do nothing to protect you”

        Got any scientists agreeing with you on that theory?

        “There are effective treatments out there now”

        Got any scientists agreeing with you on that theory?

        • May 12, 2020 at 3:05 pm
          Rosenblatt says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 21
          Thumb down 10

          Presuming the answer is “no” or there is no response, it’s this exact type of misinformation that is harmful to everyone.

          We can’t possibly think of trying to curb this pandemic if people are not going to believe in science.

          What you’re saying is dangerous and needs to be called out if there’s no scientific evidence to prove your theories (and I do not believe there is).

          I’m very surprised a commonly mentioned third type of misinformation (if you get COVID-19 and recover then you have the antibodies which will protect you from another infection of COVID-19″) wasn’t mentioned too.

          • May 12, 2020 at 8:32 pm
            Ian says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 5
            Thumb down 6

            https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Testimony-Kory-2020-05-06-REVISED.pdf

            There is an effective treatments out there now. Read Dr. Pierre Kory’s testimony to Congress. I have yet to see a rebuttal to this.

          • May 13, 2020 at 8:58 am
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 6

            SMALL SAMPLE SIZE ALERT

            From your link: “Members of our group have now treated in excess of 100 hospitalized patients with our treatment protocol.”

            Over a month ago (4/6), there were 41,000 hospitalizations in the USA. I’m SURE that number is higher now, but let’s use 41k….

            100 is less than 25% of 41,000.

            This means we have a small sample size issue.

            The treatment hasn’t been used on even ONE HALF OF ONE PERCENT of all USA hospitalizations.

          • May 13, 2020 at 9:00 am
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 6

            Major typo caught…

            wrote: 100 is less than 25% of 41,000.

            which is true, but WAY more accurately, I should’ve written

            100 is less than 0.25% of 41,000.

          • May 13, 2020 at 1:13 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 6
            Thumb down 1

            Do any of the downvoters think 100 people out of 41,000 is a statistically significant sample size to make such a claim that “There are effective treatments out there now”?

          • May 13, 2020 at 2:36 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 0
            Thumb down 3

            All studies will be small sample sizes at this point Rosenblatt.

            This hysteria needs to end.

            “TAKE ACTION NOW!! WE NEED A SOLUTION!”

            “Look, we have potential treatments”

            “SMALL SAMPLE SIZE ALERT WE AREN’T YOU TAKING THIS SERIOUSLY?”

            “Well, then I can’t take action!”

          • May 13, 2020 at 3:06 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 0

            “All studies will be small sample sizes at this point Rosenblatt.”

            What are you basing that on?

            The doctors said “We are not claiming to be unique in our treatment approach”.

            There’s no excuse for not being able to find 2,000 patients who have been treated with their non-unique approach if it’s such a common way to treat patients.

          • May 13, 2020 at 6:10 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 0
            Thumb down 0

            A: Yes there is. Not everyone who has covid will even be looking to be part of a study.

            B: Then going through treatment there is red tape to go through for the process to count as “peer reviewed” I have also seen interviews on Ben Shaprio’s page in which a doctor goes over this same problem, and explains why doctors cannot jump through those hoops rapidly.

            And C: Here you go again, it’s a defense for you and an attack. We have a cure: Not enough study!

            Hydroxychloroquine kills people! I haven’t seen you say insufficient data alert to that one. Kind of interesting on the double standard there eh? It’s almost like…When a republican says something, you don’t believe it, and when a democrat does, you have a LOWER STANDARD.

          • May 13, 2020 at 6:26 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 0
            Thumb down 0

            And in regards to your question:

            “Members of our group have now treated in excess of 100 hospitalized patients with our treatment protocol. Nearly all survived, The 2 that died were in their eighties and had advanced chronic medical conditions. None of the patients have jad long stays on the ventilator nor become ventilator dependent The patients generally have a short hospital stay and are discharged in good health.

            Yes. 100 people is enough. Supposedly about 5 percent of those that end up in hospitals are dying, so known cases. That is less than half the average death rate. In WA we just had 2 people die, out of 52 cases. That is enough to start looking into it as a serious treatment, and if it isn’t, you’re going to end up killing people disregarding things like this.

            This is precisely why doctors are mad. Each time they have a potential aspect, a potential treatment, people try to shoot it down.

      • May 12, 2020 at 11:48 pm
        Captain Planet says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
        Thumb up 13
        Thumb down 12

        Regular Reader,
        What is it with Tramp supporters who don’t seem to accept the fact people can walk around asymptomatic and spread the virus? That is the point of the mask, so you don’t give it to others. They protect your American brothers and sisters. You live in a society and as such, you have social responsibility. It’s not fear, it’s personal responsibility. If you don’t want to be part of that, maybe try Sweden. Although, they, too, are now changing their tune.

        • May 13, 2020 at 12:24 pm
          Craig Winston Cornell says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 6
          Thumb down 5

          Man, you are a boring scold.

          Sweden is NOT changing their tune. While your God Fauci hides in the corner from any re-opening whatsoever, Sweden is already there, with a death rate lower than the majority of European countries.

          And the Swedish people overwhelmingly support their more-sensible approach than the stupid economic suicide you support.

          RUSSIA!

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:55 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 0

            That is not what Fauci says, and this is the conservative error.

            Attacking Fauci.

            Fauci has said complete reopening would be harmful, some form of social distancing must be in place. That can include restrictions on seniors and vulnerable folks while letting the healthy out.

            There is so much confusion out there currently, and a lot of it has to do with the left just blanket attacking for no reason, instead of going into this with good faith. The issue here is not Trump in other words Rosenblatt.

          • May 13, 2020 at 5:01 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 0

            “The issue here is not Trump in other words Rosenblatt.”

            STRAW MAN ARGUMENT ALERT

            Cite me where I said Trump, Republicans, or anything remotely political.

          • May 13, 2020 at 5:41 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 0
            Thumb down 1

            Plus Rosenblatt, Maybe I’m trying to teach you that the way people argue here, causes good people like Agent and Craig to get mistreated, they argue in bad faith, and that is the cause of our issues as a nation, maybe, because you have implied that Trump is causing big issues in terms of dividing the nation.

            And you have.

            This was if anything with the spirit to get a moderate to finally realize, oh crap. Wait. Maybe there is a problem here I can help with?

            Maybe, I’m being a leader on the issue for someone who has the potential to be a middle ground, though I only say “potential” because I very much so doubt you will drop your political bias. But I have been wrong, so this is the chance for you to do so. Planet and Jon are plainly wrong in these threads. Get on it!

          • May 13, 2020 at 6:12 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 0
            Thumb down 0

            More examples of just today the media misleading about Coronavirus:

            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-sees-1000-new-coronavirus-cases-5-days-in-a-row/ar-BB141vUt?ocid=spartanntp

            Texas opens up, cases go up (as they must for herd immunity) they then say see! It’s because they opened! As if the goal is to stop transmission.

            This is killing the vulnerable, right now, and I don’t see anyone commenting on it Rosenblatt. Not one person is pointing this nonsense out.

            Instead it’s: Trump said you can get a test, and you can’t! (context needed).

            Ugh. Your priorities are seriously in disarray when it comes to fact checking, the who needs it, and the what it should be done for.

    • May 12, 2020 at 2:58 pm
      Augustine says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 21
      Thumb down 3

      Will, this is under the assumption that society as we know it is sustained. Your highly ideologized statement that “dreams, careers, and businesses can be resurrected” is wildly naïve. Assuming that we can “bounce back” from unbounded economic fallout simply has no historical context. My great grandmother lived through the Russian revolution, world war I and world war II–if you think that her dreams, career or business were “resurrected” then you are out of your mind. I am using hyperbole to some extent, but realistically, listening to experts like Fauci and shutting down for the next year or two would do irreparable harm to our society and economy. Our culture and society is already completely fractured—what do you think 30% unemployment will do to it? The western economies cannot shutdown indefinitely and the idea that government can just continually “bail us out” is highly misinformed.

    • May 13, 2020 at 7:17 am
      Perplexed says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 3
      Thumb down 5

      Ian, I’ve read the article you attached and some others by different doctors but this type of treatment will never be backed by the WHO, CDC, AMA, etc. Too much money to be made by Big Pharma who feeds millions of dollars to these organizations. American health care is too dependent on drugs. Our doctors are not trained in nutrition like doctors in some countries who are trained to prevent disease (with the patients adherence to a healthy lifestyle). The patient has to want to be healthy and not depend on drugs but many do not want to do that.

    • May 13, 2020 at 7:33 am
      knowall says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 6
      Thumb down 1

      We don’t actually know if the lockdowns saved net lives or not. If that were def true than why are people who are not and have not left their homes getting the virus? What should have been locked down were the rest homes etc.. to protect those people; and let the rest of us get immune on our own.

      No one understands this virus in an expert way; not Dr. Fauci, not President Trump et al. I am planning on not having an effective vaccine; but hope I am wrong. I’m not against the steps in your last paragraph but if I don’t have income I can’t buy hand sanitizer! and Every time I wear the mask I keep itching my face.

      There is risk in opening a small business, but resilience, better run and better financed cannot compete with dictators or out of control circumstances.

      The federal government can only ‘print’ so much money. Who is funding this stimulus, anyway? China? Someone has to buy the bonds to fund this, right?

    • May 13, 2020 at 11:25 am
      Nan Pelosi says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 4
      Thumb down 2

      Let’s all celebrate in a Chinese restaurant in San Francisco!

  • May 12, 2020 at 2:35 pm
    reality bites says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 21
    Thumb down 0

    Here’s a comparison of the scale of the various historic pandemics by death toll, from WCBS8, San Diego CA, with some additional info.

    The Black Death or Bubonic Plague, which was spread by fleas on rats, killed as many as 200 million people in just a few year’s time. It’s estimated that up to half of Europe’s entire population was wiped out from the plague in the 14th century. Vaccines of a sort were developed five hundred years later. The plague still pops up occasionally even in the US, notably in areas with substandard sanitation and a rat population. Only quick identification, extermination and isolation can stop the plague.

    The Small Pox outbreak in the 1500’s killed an estimated 56 million; the majority were children. This was carried around the world by explorers, conquerors and settlers, and virtually eliminated native populations who had no immunological defenses. A vaccine program was developed 250 years later, and the known strains are ‘under control’.

    In 1918, the Spanish Flu killed approximately 40 to 50 million. It too was carried on the backs of international travelers including soldiers shipped to and from battlefields. Vaccines were developed thirty years later.

    The HIV/AIDS pandemic is currently the fifth deadliest. Since 1981, 25 million to 35 million people have died. No vaccine has been developed, though effects can be controlled with medication.

    Ebola – the name alone is frightening – first arose in Africa in the mid-70’s, and a vaccine was approved only six months ago, after tens of thousands of gruesome deaths.

    A decade ago, the Swine Flu claimed the lives of 200,000 people. Partially contained by flu vaccines.

    COVID-19 appears on its way to kill hundreds of thousands around the world, yet can be contained by self-isolation though this virus can be spread easily from animals to humans, so any vaccine has to address an ability to stop the jumping between species.

    There is no ‘baby pool’ on how long a vaccine will take. It’s not about numbers of tests, or testing capacity relative to other countries, but rather how quickly a safe medical response can be determined before the virus kills multiples.

    • May 12, 2020 at 3:07 pm
      Augustine says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 17
      Thumb down 4

      I think the age of social media has largely inflamed the mass hysteria surrounding this pandemic. Additionally, many of our “experts” are in research positions and have no practical “real-world” experience. When an academic touts that we need to shutdown the economy for “two years” all I can do is roll my eyes. I do most of my work with small to midsized businesses and the economic damage already done is absolutely shocking. The “too big to fail” corporations will receive massive bailouts and the smaller mom and pop shops will fold. It seems to me that rich white secular liberals (often working for massive corporations) and extremely wealthy people are the loudest advocates for continuous shutdown. I have yet to speak with a small business owner that would advocate for a prolonged shutdown.

  • May 12, 2020 at 4:32 pm
    Captain Planet says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
    Thumb up 12
    Thumb down 15

    I don’t know anyone who is enjoying staying at home and not being able to get back to some sense of normalcy. What we need to do in order to get there is increase testing and contact trace. Yet, we have a pandemic-breeder in Chief who keeps lying about if you want a test, you can have one (I do and I cannot because I do not qualify) as well as admit on TV that if we increase the number of tests, the optics may not look very good. WHO CARES? GIVE US THE TESTS. The sooner we get tested, the sooner we’ll be able to get back out there. And no, I am not going to take the hydroxychloroquine you benefit from every time someone buys it and no, I am not going to inject myself with disinfectant. Please, just give me a test.

    • May 12, 2020 at 5:51 pm
      Common Sense says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 8
      Thumb down 6

      TDS at it’s worst. Go play golf and get some sunshine. You will be healthier for it.

      • May 12, 2020 at 10:39 pm
        Captain Planet says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 8
        Thumb down 8

        Agent,
        I have been playing golf 2-3 times a week for over a month. TDS isn’t what you think it is. TDS is anyone who actually thinks he is doing a good job with this pandemic. Those people are lying to themselves and are the truly deranged ones. We have all the video evidence to prove how he has mishandled this from the very beginning. Tell me anything I stated that isn’t accurate. He did say if I wanted a test, I could get one. I can’t. He did tell people they should just take hydroxycholorquine. He did ask his task force if we can inject disinfectant. Ask yourself if you’ll be consistent. What if President Obama handled the pandemic this way. What would you be saying then? Because, I’d be saying dude is crazy! I will be consistent. Try it and you will be healthier for it.

        • May 13, 2020 at 1:51 am
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 7
          Thumb down 1

          For my cough I literally had to try and talk the doctor out of the second test and they really pushed it.

          I was like “Is this really necessary? I have coughs all the time, I have allergies, I’m known for it”. You don’t realize the effects some of these policies are having on society, call it encouraging testing and tracing all you want. Folks prone to colds and allergies are just going to get thrown out of work every other month. It has not even been a month since I had my first test. I’m on 4 in my family so far!

          The next time I’m going to just tell them my kids are prone to allergies like me and infections as well as coughs, and I can’t keep giving them tests, they are young. They tested my 2 and a half year old and my one and a half year old, and they nearly forced us to take one, like wouldn’t take no for an answer.

          My kids were so unbelievably upset afterward too. They should be, the test sucks, and they shouldn’t have been put through it. We just went in to be safe.

          • May 13, 2020 at 8:47 am
            rob says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 10
            Thumb down 0

            I truly hope none of the IJ readers (on EITHER sides of the political aisle) end up getting this thing. We’ve had several people in my church contract it. A buddy of mine and his whole family came down with it, first his wife, then his teenage daughter, and then him. He was laid up for 3 weeks, was in the ICU for a few days, and told me he thought he was going to die. He’s one of those guys who NEVER gets sick. His only underlying health condition was that he’s 55.

            You could be one of the lucky ones who has no symptoms, or maybe mild symptoms, but you could also be one of those who has a helluva time with it. This virus doesn’t discriminate based on age, sex, race, or political affiliation. It’s NO JOKE. Best of luck to you all.

          • May 13, 2020 at 12:08 pm
            Captain Planet says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 6
            Thumb down 2

            I hear you, rob. I don’t wish this upon anyone. We have too many people who think it’s a hoax, though. They are out protesting, not socially distancing, and now 72 of them from 1 protest has contracted the virus. We can’t have people acting like this and expect to make any progress. Test, contact tracing, test again, and again, and again. Don’t open up too dang early. Quit being so eager! We haven’t even finished with foreplay yet, no need to start penetrating the public space yet. We are going to cause a resurgence and be set back even further. I want to get out maybe even more than the next guy. I’d love to sit on a beer patio with buddies right now. I need some things for my house and I don’t feel like ordering those online. Just have to be patient. Americans have no patience. And because of that, we lead in the category of Covid patients.

          • May 13, 2020 at 3:30 pm
            Jon says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 0

            I just had a long conversation with a marketing rep for one of our carriers, she’s had three family members contract the virus, one fatally. Her nephew had the virus five weeks ago. Five weeks ago and they let him stop quarantine after two weeks. He’s been having issues the entire time and he went back to his doctor and five weeks later he is still testing positive for the virus. This thing is no joke, and the people trying to pretend it’s not a big deal do not have your best interests in mind.

        • May 13, 2020 at 12:26 pm
          Craig Winston Cornell says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 3
          Thumb down 4

          Hey Planet, Mr. Compassion for the dead and suffering:

          What did China do wrong? For once, get off your TDS and show us you actually care about the dead. How about Cuomo? Nursing homes, anyone?

          GOLF!

          • May 13, 2020 at 3:12 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 1

            Trump: “Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That’s what the bottom line is”

            Trump: “If somebody wants to be tested right now, they’ll be able to be tested.”

            Bob: He told people they can get a test, and, they can, provided they have symptoms

            But that is not what he said on multiple occasions!

            He simply said ANYONE who WANTS a test can get one.

            Words matter.

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:39 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 1

            Context matters, those who need one, can get one.

            When someone says don’t worry, if you have it, you can get a test, they mean it.

            Trump has already passed bills to get more tests, testing has increased. Arguing that his words made testing not ramp up is false.

            I am very tired of this.

            Grow up.

          • May 13, 2020 at 5:04 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 0

            “When someone says don’t worry, if you have it, you can get a test, they mean it.”

            100% agree with you here, Bob, but he didn’t actually say that, now did he?. He said that – bottom line – ANYBODY that WANTS a test can get one.

        • May 13, 2020 at 2:48 pm
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 2
          Thumb down 3

          Disinfectant in the way he mentioned it is not crazy, and was not referring to Lysol, which the media knew and lied about. Ask yourself if the right reported on Obama’s missteps as the left does, knowing what he meant, if you would tolerate it? You wouldn’t.

          This wasn’t a misstep though. There are sicknesses in which UV rays assist in healing. While it is not often used, some studies are insisting we look into it more.

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122858/

          When he mentioned bringing the sunlight inside, and acting as some sort of disinfectant, he was talking about this. About the potential affect that some lost methods have for changing immunity or damaging diseases, through UV light.

          He told people they can get a test, and, they can, provided they have symptoms. There are not enough tests for asymptomatic folks, yet. In context, saying if you have symptoms and are at risk you can be tested is indeed a reasonable statement to be made.

          He did indeed push hydroxychloroquine, when we had no options, and it was the only one that had any evidence whatsoever of working. There were studies at the time that seemed to suggest it works. Now there are counter studies. Also, Andrew Cuomo pushed this same thing and for trials right off the bat. I already source quoted this in a recent article, I’m not doing so again.

          Ventilators were pushed too much by democrats, and they have a 40% death rate, when used, not even for covid because they are dangerous, for covid it is more like 60-70% death rate.

          ht tps://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/

          Your side is the one misleading and lying.

          I already showed an interview in which the doctor pointed out that shutting down businesses and all contact even for healthy folks is actually dangerous to the vulnerable. Blanket business shut downs are not how social distancing is done anyway, it’s what governors are doing who are drunk on power.

          We could have said: Don’t go to nursing homes, no visiting old folks, wear a mask, and businesses are not allowed to serve the vulnerable.

          The doctor in my interview worded it, that some 95-99% of the young are not at risk at all, and they are the ones who have to get sick to help people, a total shut down breaks that apart. Watch me while I say the elderly and vulnerable dying right now IS BECAUSE OF HOW THE SHUT DOWN HAS BEEN DONE BY DEMOCRATS. Yes, watch me say it, and the doctors back it up.

          • May 13, 2020 at 2:59 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            And I’ll also note he signed multiple bills and orders regarding tests, in which, the CDC messed up on multiple occasions (especially if you include the 15 day quarantine nonsense). He literally acted each time someone said do something, and Fauci said this in a public update, I would have to find it, but he interrupted rude reporters attacking Trump, and said the moment they came to Trump, every time, Trump said, what do we do, ok, and do it! Trump has not failed on this. He has done rather well.

            I grow tired of everything being a political stunt to you guys, you know no limits.

            If it were Obama he would be receiving praise. In this case, we nitpick, Rosenblatt goes on fits claiming they aren’t fit he’s just a concerned citizen, and ignores that our business shut downs will leave us in a depression and could have been done as I said above, which also would have resulted in less deaths (since the elderly and vulnerable would have had some protection) and would have kept the economy open without damage.

          • May 13, 2020 at 3:16 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 1

            “Rosenblatt goes on fits claiming they aren’t fit he’s just a concerned citizen.”

            Are you NOT concerned about this global pandemic?”

            “I already showed an interview in which the doctor pointed out…”

            You mean the video that wasn’t from a doctor and then you ghosted the conversation when I called you out on it?

            No? You mean a different video? Please repost it then.

          • May 13, 2020 at 3:43 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 1

            Bob – this is the conversation where I asked you bob to prove your statement that ” “I have seen numerous doctors talk about this, they have said the shut down serves no purpose at this point”

            You replied with a video that wasn’t from a doctor and claimed I was attacking your character asking you to prove your argument, and when I pointed out the video wasn’t from a doctor, you ghosted the conversation.

            https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2020/05/06/567691.htm?comments

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:06 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            Also worthy of note, is that the media lied about the hydroxychloroquine study statements.

            While more people died taking the concoction of drugs, they said it was statistically insignificant. This means there is not evidence that the drug was killing people. Your side lied.

            Regarding it’s effectiveness: We don’t have enough studies, in the combo method.

            When you have a small sample size, as well as not many studies to date, well, as Rosenblatt said:

            “SMALL SAMPLE SIZE ALERT”

            But I guess that only applies to one side and one set of standards. All this virus is doing is flushing out those of you who think you are smarter than you are.

            Yes, some on the right are saying idiotic things, however, Trump, is not, and is more consistently saying what the doctors do.

            CNN just said Trump contradicted Fauci, he did not. Saying open up while Fauci says opening the economy could affect infection rates is not a contradiction. If Trump is saying “let the healthy get sick” by means of open up, they are actually not in disagreence at all, and it is amazing to watch when the interviews with Fauci happen, because during the presentations Fauci says again and again, Trump and I are not constantly at odds, we agree, then the reporters will ask loaded questions, and after the fact post headlines saying “Fauci contradicts Trump!” knowing it is a twisted lie.

            I am so sick of what your side is doing. It is disgusting how they are trying to twist this to their benefit, and let’s be real, they know they are, it isn’t naive accident.

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:12 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            “You replied with a video that wasn’t from a doctor and claimed I was attacking your character asking you to prove your argument, and when I pointed out the video wasn’t from a doctor, you ghosted the conversation. ”

            I didn’t ghost you, the interview is indeed with a doctor. You didn’t point out anything.

            How a previous chief from Stanford Medical Center, Dr. Atlas, not a doctor? The key take away is notably WHAT BEN SHAPIRO ASKS. I told you to look at the end of the video, in which he goes over herd immunity and exposure, and specifically how current social distancing measures could be dangerous as a result.

            You keep ignoring what I’m saying, you ignored the video, and then you try to bounce it back that there was no evidence, I don’t have time for it. I called it dishonest because IT WAS. The video was right there, and you couldn’t be bothered to watch it, while claiming still now, that I’m not giving any evidence, because you are too worked up to do your due diligence, and you did NOT watch the video, literally 7 seconds in is when he introduces Dr. Atlas and gives his credentials, so yes, it was a form of an attack, one you do often, what I accused you of, you did. I refused to respond to ignorance, that’s why I left.

            Time to admit you’re wrong. Or get lost. I am only here to make it known what the left is doing, and what you just did. I am correct, especially on what I noted there, and here. If you can’t prove me wrong, or be bothered to read what I write, and you try to say I didn’t provide evidence while you refuse to look at or read my evidence, why are you here or commenting? Get lost, it’s all just an image show attack. You’re a bad person. I don’t like making those arguments, you are though, to you this is all some political stunt, worse than agent, because you want to believe one side is not fact based, and I’ve seen it for years.

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:14 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            In other words, you ignored me, I ignored you.

            You often take what I say and say condescending loaded questions, I ignore them. I don’t have time for them. Do your research, watch the video I gave. Ben shapiro asked relevant questions, such as, something akin to: Will this form of social distancing works? What would? Could people die? Etc. The doctor explicitly goes over why keeping healthy people from getting sick is bad, he explains why, and a big one here you on the left don’t understand PEOPLE HAVE TO GET SICK and why exposure while flattening the curve will be the only way to protect the vulnerable. I have nearly quoted this interview to the letter for some time, I am in line with the doctors, you are not.

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:17 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            Me: Here’s a video of an interview with a doctor.

            You: That’s not a doctor (Ben Shapiro I assume?)

            Me: Dr. Atlas is a Doctor. I don’t have time for this.

            You: Why are you ghosting me!?!?!? You just won’t answer the hard questions and won’t present evidence!

            Me: I gave tons, I gave the concepts, you refuse to debate them. I’m done. You have no intent to debate, just to do character attacks.

            You: HAH! SEE! NOW HE SAYS I WON’T DEBATE AND AM DOING CHARACTER ASSAULTS TO DO A CHRACTER ASSAULT ON ME!! I’M THE VICTIM!! HE’S NOT SERIOUS!

            Anyone with common sense: Is Rosenblatt ok? It sounds like he’s really not focusing well.

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:24 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            https://profiles.stanford.edu/scott-atlas?releaseVersion=7.19.5

            Doctor.

            And, when doctors are talked to directly, they are directly stating that the media is not representing things correctly. He ended up writing his own piece on the Hill, not exactly a bastion of conservative leaning sites.

            http s://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

            He is a doctor, he has talked about it, so have others.

            The fact is the media only asks loaded questions, and gives leading answers to the public.

            The shut down is not saving lives, and it could be endangering them. There is no purpose to an entire shutdown, and it could be dangerous. The point of some social distancing was to flatten the curve, I’ve explained this more than ten times and you refuse to accept it, each time I explain what that means. This means so the hospitals could provide care and no one was left out. From there, people need to get it. It’s that simple, the goal was never to stop the spread, which you definitely have believed and have stated, and is dangerous. Social distancing is not synonymous with business shut down, precisely because the elderly are not protected. The goal here was social distancing, flatten the curve, then exposure for the healthy to protect the vulnerable, who right now is stopping exposure to the healthy? That is the party who would be most responsible for the elderly deaths right now, the vast bulk of deaths. I am not a partisan, but yes, the democrats failed on this, and their misinformation is causing disastrous results. Trump is not the issue here. It’s time to admit it, be a man not a partisan hack, and knock it off.

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:36 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 2

            And even more importantly:

            We have lost some 30 million jobs in about 2 months. Very soon, food will be an issue Rosenblatt.

            In Venezuela in 2017, about 200 kids died of hunger. The infant mortality rate jumped 140%. When the USSR could not handle Medicare, and collapsed, their life expectancy dropped from 62 to 58, 4 years in a shockingly quick time frame. Keeping someone alive to 62, is much easier than our about 75, if we drop much further, we will have a similar crash on both ends.

            This disease almost definitely has a 1% death rate when accounting for the amount of people likely affected, again, New York estimated 2.7 million, CA estimated much higher too, every anti body test performed implies a much much much higher infection rate than reported. We didn’t do this with Swine Flu, and we shouldn’t be doing this now. The media is hiding this, a 1% death rate is not as deadly as the type of economic collapse we are moving toward, and kids don’t die from the disease, so kids will be affected most.

            You are not the hero of this story, you are not educated on these matters at all, you are not helping people! Stop the hero syndrome, stop the TDS villain sob story, and GET TO WORK. Literally. Call for your governor to end this, and to protect old people and those at risk.

          • May 13, 2020 at 5:17 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 1

            Uhhh, yeah bob.

            You’re CLEARLY talking about a different video.

            Your immediate reply to me and first words were “And, this guy specifically breaks down some of the covid deaths with sources.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSgUvsBtAdc

            when I asked you to post a video from a doctor as you “have seen numerous doctors talk about this, they have said the shut down serves no purpose at this point”

            Now in 3 posts or less, do you think that guy is a doctor?

          • May 13, 2020 at 5:25 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 2

            More importantly, ALL the doctors have been saying this same thing.

            What is most concerning,

            IS YOU ARE BELIEVING WHAT ONE SIDE SAYS AND ARE REFUSING TO LOOK INTO THE OTHER.

            If it was not true, you would already know this. But you don’t.

            Instead, you’re doing this nonsense.

            Watch the video, come back, see why I AM TICKED OFF compared to your compadres you keep agreeing with, who ACTUALLY ARE getting the elderly killed, and are driving us into a depression because why? WE DON’T LIKE HOW TRUMPY TALKIE

            It is insane Rosenblatt! Your bastion of moderate behavior had better after viewing this and finally looking into it get disgusted, and start acting! Because this is wrong! If IJ deleted my post, it likely had more to do with them not liking the belief than anything else. They have more than 5 times deleted my Charlottesville post which has no insults, and points out a professor there calling for people to be hit, with video evidence. Recently, it was on topic. I had been gone for a long time, Andrew deleted it within 5 minutes. He DOES delete posts that say things he disagrees with. And likely deleted that one as well.

    • May 13, 2020 at 1:47 am
      bob says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 3
      Thumb down 2

      Speeding up tests will not get people out there easier.

      I was tested, twice, my son was tested, my daughter was tested. In large families people get sick all the time, and every time I go in now I’m getting @Ting quarantined while I wait for the results. It’s getting annoying.

      I have kids that have either a temperature, an eye infection, an ear infection, or what not literally every 2 weeks. So far, the ear infection didn’t trigger a covid test, but every temperature did, every cough has, and it’s beginning to get old fast.

      The tests won’t ensure people get back to work. It will ensure they get flagged more and more, and so will tracing, you will get shut down if anyone near you had it, even if you don’t. You can claim it’s safer, (which you did not) and try to argue that, but you cannot argue it will get people back to work testing more. It won’t.

      • May 13, 2020 at 9:10 am
        Rosenblatt says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 6
        Thumb down 4

        “and so will tracing, you will get shut down if anyone near you had it, even if you don’t…”

        Well, yeah, with an incubation period of up to 2 weeks, that’s what should happen.

        If I was hanging out with someone and they tested positive on Monday 5/1, I might test negative until Monday 5/15. If I’m not “shut down” for those two weeks, I will likely infect others and then when I finally test positive, now there’s 2 weeks of contact tracing and quarantine that has to happen for everyone I was near those past 2 weeks.

        That’s why getting shut down if you’ve been near someone who tested positive is so important – it’s for the safety of everyone you may be unknowingly infecting, and the safety of those people they unknowingly infect, etc…

        • May 13, 2020 at 10:37 am
          Perplexed says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 6
          Thumb down 6

          Get in bed and pull the covers over your head, Rosenblatt.

          • May 13, 2020 at 10:54 am
            alphonse says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 7

            go chug a bottle of colloidal silver, make a bunch of racist, homophobic and anti-Catholic statements, and pray to your hypocritical, crybaby man child conspiracy mongering orange savior for salvation, Perplexed. .

          • May 13, 2020 at 1:00 pm
            Craig Winston Cornell says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 4

            RUSSIA!

          • May 13, 2020 at 2:52 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 2

            Yeah, it’s all about racism, not common sense.

            I already made my points, I’m sick of the lack of rebuttals from you guys on the left.

            You guys are out of control.

          • May 13, 2020 at 2:54 pm
            Perplexed says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 3

            Alfonse, I don’t support any president and certainly don’t put my trust in any man to “save me”. If my taking a stand against evil bothers you that’s okay. You cannot truthfully call me a racist because I have never made a racist remark and never do that in my life. Skin color makes no difference to me and if any of my kids had married godly people of color that would have been a good thing. The thing about people like you Jon, Captain, Rosenblatt and others is you group everyone that isn’t exactly like you and make broad characterizations declaring them racists, haters, homophobes when you know nothing about them as individuals. I don’t personally care for Trump, but for anyone to call him racist is insane. He pandered, even glorified LGBGQRST people on his television show and you ignore that fact because you are closed minded fools. You can’t think outside of what the mainstream media tells you is important on any given day. You do not think for yourselves.

          • May 13, 2020 at 3:18 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 1

            “Rosenblatt and others is you group everyone that isn’t exactly like you and make broad characterizations declaring them racists, haters, homophobes”

            BLATANT LIE ALERT

            i have NEVER called anyone a racist, hater, homophobe, etc.

            DO NOT PRETEND LIKE I EVER DID THIS

            Troll and hypocrite? Yeah, I’ve used those phrases here, sure, but NEVER racist or homophobe or any slur like that.

            DEBATE HONESTLY

          • May 13, 2020 at 3:31 pm
            Jon says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            LOL alphonse made me smile! I love the usual knuckleheads immediate angry response, sorry he nailed you so clearly LOL

          • May 13, 2020 at 3:34 pm
            alphonse says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 0

            You know what, Perplexed?

            You’re right.

            I shouldn’t have attacked you. I was defending Rosenblatt and was angry about a comment you had made on another thread (since deleted) and also at some of Agent’s recent ignorant rants, and I took it out on you. You’re right, I don’t know you personally and therefore have no basis to judge you. Just because we hold different opinions doesn’t make you my enemy.

            I humbly and sincerely apologize and in the future will refrain from attacking you.

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:15 pm
            Captain Planet says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 2

            Wow alphonse,
            That is the EXACT OPPOSITE of how Tramp would have handled that situation. Great job out of you and you win the internet today!

          • May 13, 2020 at 4:17 pm
            Jon says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 3

            too bad alphonse, I had hope for you, but these people don’t deserve the high road you’re taking. Her need to try and passive aggressively demean LGBTQ people shows that. I like how she tried to accuse us of falsely calling her group homophobes, then does that.

            Also, to try and say “anyone who would call Trump racist is insane” means you’re shutting your eyes and shoving your fingers in your ears to reality.

            theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/

            I do not think you understand what “insane” means, Perplexed. As usual, point the finger and belittle, but the information is out there. You’re just pretending it doesn’t exist, which is dishonest.



Comment have been closed for this article.