You are wrong! In my area, which is NOT coastal there is NO one other then Citizens that writes policies so if you want insurance you are stuck with Citizens!
You say you don’t need big brother looking out for you, well when State Farm increases your premium double or triple or more and you have no other choice then Citizens at an outrageous rate then you will be looking for big brother, won’t you! I love people like you that have not felt the true pain of un-affordable insurance and don’t know what is happening to anyone else but yourself! Try paying $10,000 a year to insure a $200k home!
How can State Farm agents continue to write with Citizens when State Farm pulls out of the state? Citizens requires that an agent be appointed with an admitted homeowner’s company to keep a Citizens appointment. What am I missing here?
In the current marketplace there are many choices other than Citizens, some much better than others, but regardless…many choices. Throw even 500,000 policies onto the market and it’s going to dry up very quickly. To have a Citizens appointment you must be appointed with an admitted carrier, so I pose my question again. With no admitted carrier, how are State Farm agents going to continue to represent Citizens?
You should be happy to see them leave then with all this totally factual information on your links. Why the controversy? Maybe because the whole self-inflicted wound that is the FL property insurance market is a crock.
I have had State Farm auto for 17 years, and Homeowners for 11 years. One auto at fault accident and the claims was adjusted professionally. Two Ho claims, one water and one from a hurricane. The water claim was adjudicated professionally. The hurricane claim took a little back and forth due to the number of hurricane claims in 2005. They came around but it was unusaul times. Let them charge what they want and if you do not like their price shop around. It is suppose to be a free country.
Yeah, your a SF customer, I wish I had about 1200 just like you “Let them charge what they want”. What planet are you from? SF agents will simply continue to do what they are already doing, forming their own independent agencies, contracting with the same new domestics they claim are so financially unsound, and write the balance with Citizens. So much for the SF is the greatest BS, they will do whatever it takes and whomever it takes to maintain. Can’t say I blame them but shut up with the put downs of the new carriers & other markets that they are now so quick to turn to.
I doubt that SF will allow their agents to sell / place business with other carriers.
Be that as it may, it would be interesting if did, since many of their agents have been advising their clients to stay away from the Florida domiciled companies and to go with Citizens since it is backed by the State of Florida.
I can’t blame SF for leaving. The OIR should be regulating for solvency and let the free market function.
I am from planet earth. The world does not revolve around SF residents or agents. State Farm agents should take their business and place it with the free market. Oh, I forgot b/c of SF there is no free market.
I am not sure but it would seem that SF agents would still be able to sell auto through State Farm Mutual. They will non renew State Farm of Florida business but keep the Mutual to write auto and life products I imagine. Just a guess. I also am tired of the State Farm agents who do nothing but bad mouth every other company while opening agencies under their wife or cousins name and then sell the heck out of those same other carriers. I know it for a fact as I am friend with State Farm employees and also have had some new clients tell me their SF agent told them to come back when their “new agency” opens. You bad mouth the companies but jump on the band wagon to sell it sure shows your true colors. There should be a free market but it should not apply just to State Farm. That would not be a free market to anyone BUT State Farm. I am filling up my share of the market with all their clients who are leaving quickly.
For those out there that have not looked at a Citizens contract, the provisions are that you have at least one active appointment with a carrier that is actually writing business AT THE TIME OF THE APPOINTMENT. It does not require that you have active appointments after you have a Citizens appointment. Yes this is a problem that should be fixed, no I am not a SF agent, but I love how they have pissed off their ever loyal clients.And it is humourous to see how some of them are handling themselves in our real world and trying to figure out what carriers do what and if they have any money in the bank to pay claims. What we have are many brainwashed agents that have never had to function outside the confines of a single rule book, that is not the independent agent way of doing things. Good luck
I agree with the free market for all companies not just State Farm. Why didn’t the independents work together to get the bill written to include all companies. I saw no support from the independents when the bill was being written but they shouted very load not to let it pass. Sounds like they just want state farm out of the way so they can get the business as it is pouring out. The bad news is the insurance commissioner has a plan that cuts our the independents as well.
You assume that all State Farm agents are bad mouthing the domestic carriers. Not those whose how have a wife opening one of the new independents. They are telling people to hang on and when it is time switch to my wife.
Independents should be asking why are the domestics willing to take on the new agents and leave you to fight for the business. Many are going to cap out when State Farm leave so why bring on new agents? They all want the sure thing.
That is not the point. State Farm wanted deregulation for themselves and a select few companies only. That is the point. State Farm wants things their way and only when it blows up in their face do they then say how it would have helped everyone else. I write plenty of business with them in the State of Florida and don’t necessarily want them to leave. I am just calling out the State Farm agents who talk too much about how wonderful they and their company is and how poor and horrible every other company is while they secretly look for ways to sell the products they bad mouth on these message boards. They say Citizens is the biggest problem but then tell their clients to take Citizens quotes they mail out over any other company. I have spoken to and placed coverage for so many former State Farm clients in the past few months that I sometimes feel that is my biggest source of business. All of them tell the same story. Their agent said not to get insurance with any company someone else offers due to financial issues yet the same agent is ready to place them in Citizens who has the biggest financial issues of them all. I see the problem with that, don’t you?
State farm agts have been bad-mouthing independents for years,,,Citizens too, until they needed it, then its ok, My two large indep. assoc actively endorsed that stupid bill, so did the mortg broker and realtor assoc, against my wishes as an indept and mtg broker.FLDFS should not have a right to tell sf how it distributes policies…look at GEICO. All Fldfs did is try to protect their sf agent buddies, not the independents.
All companies are signing up agents everywhere. That has been happening way before State Farm agents started looking for ways to open independent agencies. It is nothing new. Some carriers do limit their appointments and those carriers get the most business with me. I am not against competition as I have a good work ethic and good product knowledge. Yes, not all State Farm agents bad mouth the independents and the smaller companies but most of those on this message board sure do. Some even hide behind their “I’m a State Farm customer” names to tout how great their company is and how they would pay any amount to keep their policy. Yes, insurance issues in Florida really are bad. Yes we need to find some answers quickly. It just gets old listening to some State Farm agents bad mouth anything not papa State Farm.
WK – I am a state farm customer not an agent or employee or have any members of my family as a state farm employee, past or present. I live in Jacksonville and happen to believe that if I do not like what State farm charges I am free to look elsewhere. it is called a free society or what I like to call a Republican. I do not need “big brother” to look out for me. now that you understand that i did not mis-rep myself, you should apologize.
Interesting that the State Farm agents bashed the new domestics in favor of placing business with Citizens and now many Captive State Farm Agents are opening Idenpendent Agencies to sell the same “crapy” coverage…
BUT, what will corporate State Farm do when they find out that, not only are the State Farm agents selling HOMEOWNERS via their new Independent Agencies, but also AUTO, FLOOD, LIFE, etc. BECAUSE, the underwriting may be easier and the COMMISSION may be HIGHER through their new Independent Agency. Not to mention the fact that the “State Farm” agent will OWN THE BOOK OF BUSINESS WITHIN THE INDEPENDENT AGENCY. When corporate State Farm starts to see business running off the books, what will they do? Maybe the State Farm agents that open independent agencies WANT to run ALL of their State Farm business over to the Independent to STICK IT back to the company? Will EVERY State Farm agent open an Independent? I’m sure there are other State Farm agents in other coastal and non coastal areas of America that would LOVE to have an “Independent on the side”. Corporate State Farm should send a clear message to ALL SF AGENTS… Your either loyal to State Farm, and we will work though this problem “we have all created” or when we catch you with direct or indirect ties to an Independent, we’re transfering ALL of your policies to the remaining “LOYAL” SF Agents, and NOW you can be, truely and INDEPENDENT! Heck, I would LOVE to hang a STATE FARM SIGN outside my shop and use the WELL BRANDED NAME to steer business to my independent shop. Maybe all of us independents should check with corporate State Farm and see how much they would charge us monthly for the USE OF THEIR GOOD NAME???
State Farm OVER EXTENDED their property exposure in Florida, just to get to the AUTO business, with NO CONCERN FOR PROPERTY UNDERWRITING VALUES. That IS the FLORIDA PROBLEM for State Farm. Dumping their STAGNATING BOOK and starting over WITH UNDERWRITING CONCERNS as a priority, would be a solution. Let’s see how many “loyal” SF Agents are willing to wait and work harder when their new property market opens, SUBJECT TO KEEN UNDERWRITING, returns. They’ve had it VERY EASY for 30 PLUS YEARS in “Giving Away The Farm”.
Welcome to my Independent World of UNDERWITING CONCERN, just take down that STATE FARM SIGN and be a true competitor within the INDEPENDENT agency system…
GOOD LUCK!
State Farm and an additional $730 million in punitive damages for the insurer’s breach of contract with auto policy holders by relying on generic replacement parts
So is it the corrupt politicians or the corrupt companies? It can’t be both since the companies are fighting with the politicians to get adequate rates.
I would agree that most of the problems in Florida are political, I do not agree of your portrayal of the agents on this blog. Those agents that say they are agents are hard working honest folks trying to make a living and help clients. Those that are tired of the industry and what it has become and are resentful that work is not fun anymore probably are the ones that ***** about the market conditions. Then the consumers get on here and blab about stuff that they have no knowledge off except that they think they are being ripped off by the big bad insurance people. Good grief go shopping and buy it cheaper, there is not price fixing going on between the companies, you can save a ton if you are willing to shop and do some leg work. If you have not tried, shut up and prove me wrong. If you can not find anyone to offer a quote you either have not looked very far or you live in a shack that no one wants. This applies for almost all areas and counties in Florida. The worst area for rates has been South east and Southwest florida and there are many many companies willing to write homeowners in these areas. If you live near the coast I have a secret to tell you. You have not been paying enough for insurance coverage for 15 years, the risk is higher than anyone wants to believe that wind will destroy your home and you need to prepare to pay it, do without or sell the puppy and move to Kansas where they have hail and tornadoes or Arizona where it is just hotter than hell or Ohio where everyone moves here in the winter. In any case we need a new political climate in Florida and a new regulator until that happens it will get worse every day.
In Utah, the company was fine $25 million in punitive damages, in part for the “systematic destruction of documents and systematic manipulation of individual claim files to conceal claim mishandling”.
I never said that I lived in an area that charges that but I DO personally know people that are paying that. I also have a family friend who has a $500k home in New Port Richey Florida (NOT on the water)that pays $12,000 a year to insure. You should go to FIRM’s website and read ALL the articles of people in Florida paying $8k to $15k to insure homes, and these are NOT mega-mansions but regular homes. NOT FISHEY but the real truth about the greedy insurance industry!
Here is a clip from one article:
The state officials heard from residents whose insurance bills have already gone from
$3,000 in 2003 to $12,000 now. Let’s hope they took those stories back to Tallahassee
and are making clear that this is untenable.
Hey Kathy, why don’t you really fix the bad old insurance companies, pay off your home (or don’t own one), give up your vehicles and take public transportation or hire taxis, rent anything else you want, then you won’t have to pay any insurance on anything! No one has to pay any insurance, they have choices, make your choices and quit whining. Or take all your money and invest it in stock of insurance companies that only write homeowners in Florida and get in on the gravy train, or better yet, take all your money and get about 10,000 others like yourself and form your own Florida only homeowners company and really make a ton of dough. As you know, there won’t be any more storms or if there is one, you will make your money back hand over fist in just a year or two. Let us all know how this works out for you, maybe you’ll even appoint us to represent your new company and we will get rich as well.
It is so easy today to make an entire company look bad for a single error or the errors of a few bad employees. I like having conversations on the problems of the industry but to say one event represents an entire industry or company is just blind and one sided. You say the insurance industry is bad but the agents that blog on this site are not going to agree with you. We work hard to take care of our customer’s needs and help them with disbutes when they arise which is not often. I’m sorry that you have a bad taste for the insurance industry but bad apples have existed since the beginning of time however that does not make the entire industry bad.
Trust me if I could fix the big bad insurance companies I would! The problem is that I am not a corrupt politician that has big fat pockets full of insurance money!
Why should I have to give up my vehicle, get rid of my house, boat, etc., because of a greedy company! And sorry but just because insurance is a necessary evil does not give the insurance industry the right to gouge people or take advantage of them!
BTW I would NEVER hire any insurance giants to do any business for me as they are corrupt!
All I can pray is that you snotty agents that think you know it all and are loyal to these rapists companies feel their rath one day…oh and you will!
When you go to the grocery, do you tell the clerk that you are not willing to pay what they want to charge for your things because you can’t afford them. Kathy, coverage costs what it costs. You can’t legislate away the actual cost of providing coverage. This is what has been tried in Florida and your system will collapse when the next big storm hits. Companies can’t provide coverage at a loss. That’s why the reputable companies no longer write property in Florida. I know you won’t ever accept any arguement, but I thought I would try again. I’m sorry for your pain, but it’s not the fault of the insurers, it’s just the cost of the product. The system set up by the politicians in Florida will and has to fail since it isn’t based on any logic or real statistics. That is a crock.
I don’t think ALL agents are bad and really I believe that the ones on this site are not really the hard working agents but higher-ups that are sinking in the blood money of their greedy companies. I believe the adverage agent is a hard-working regular person and one of my best friends works for State Farm, a company that even SHE thinks is corrupt but right now it is a job!
TO THE UNTOUCHABLES. Edward B. Rust, Jr., will be happy to tell you that he is the Chief Executive Officer of State Farm Mutual Insurance Company. He has deep family ties to State Farm, as his father and grand father have both served in that capacity. He will also tell you that he is an educated man who has been to law school and is a past practicing attorney. In addition, he was the chairman of the Coalition for Excellence in Education and a member of George W. Bush’s transition advisory team on education. So with all of that education why will he not deal with his company’s inbred greed. Does he not know that we are in the 21st century where anyone can look on the internet and see the billions of dollars that are being spent to protect their empire from the consumer? In Utah, the company was fine $25 million in punitive damages, in part for the “systematic destruction of documents and systematic manipulation of individual claim files to conceal claim mishandling”. An Idaho appeals court fined the company $9.5 million in punitive damages for making use of “a completely bogus” outside bill review company that helped lower the cost of medical bills. In October of 1999, an Illinois jury rendered a $456 million judgment against State Farm and an additional $730 million in punitive damages for the insurer’s breach of contract with auto policy holders by relying on generic replacement parts. Rust was adamant in his insistence that fraud had not been committed. A class action law suit in the name of State Farm policy holders was filed in 2003 for breach of contract and statutory consumer fraud in which $1.1 billion was awarded to plaintiffs. When a company is misleading the public, should that not be considered fraud? A consumer would go to prison for that type of behavior. State Farm will let you know that, in several states, fraud and abuse is pushing up the cost of auto insurance. A court in late 2001 reached an unfriendly consumer decision that could have the effect of reaching deep into the pockets of the consumer. Sharply higher jury awards in vehicular liability cases are putting additional upward pressure on auto insurance rates. The average jury award in auto liability cases rose from $187,000 to $269,000 in 2000, an increase of 44%. I question if any of the lawsuits would be necessary if the company would just fairly pay their claims. The company represents on their web-site that consumer protection is one of their most important goals, but do they really think that courts would be awarding multiple millions of dollars in bad faith claims if that were their emphasis? State Farm’s ratings are based on their financial strength. State Farm states that their high ratings are also based on strong claims paying ability. With this ability, why is it necessary for their policy holders to allege that the claims department was directed, in evaluating their cases, to take them to trial instead of settling within the limits of the policy? This practice exposed policyholders to judgments above the limits of their policies, when the company was attempting to make an effort to win smaller decisions. Two former in-house attorneys for State Farm contend that they were often called upon by the insurer to represent its’ policy holders and were forced to commit “unlawful and unethical activities, including requiring the two to stay silent about the rights of the policyholders”. State Farm seems to have reckless indifference for the truth for the purpose of corporate and personal economic gain. State Farm should know that continued scrutiny of their claims paying practices will continue especially with the advent of new claims that are surfacing from lawsuits revolving around Hurricane Katrina. A message to Mr. Rust, and any employee of the company that is acting in bad faith for its policy holders. Its time to stop no more.
I should have done my homework!!!!! You are a fool! I have lived here all my life as has my parent, grand-parents, and great-grandparents! It is the insurance companies and the scammers that have deemed this a sinkhole prone area. Please find me information on lets say THREE houses that have sank into the ground in Pasco County in lets say the last 50 years…or even 100!!!! There aren’t any!!!
an Illinois jury rendered a $456 million judgment against State Farm and an additional $730 million in punitive damages for the insurer’s breach of contract with auto policy holders by relying on generic replacement parts. Rust was adamant in his insistence that fraud had not been committed. A class action law suit in the name of State Farm policy holders was filed in 2003 for breach of contract and statutory consumer fraud in which $1.1 billion was awarded to plaintiffs.
A class action law suit in the name of State Farm policy holders was filed in 2003 for breach of contract and statutory consumer fraud in which $1.1 billion was awarded to plaintiffs. When a company is misleading the public, should that not be considered fraud? A consumer would go to prison for that type of behavior. State Farm will let you know that, in several states, fraud and abuse is pushing up the cost of auto insurance. A court in late 2001 reached an unfriendly consumer decision that could have the effect of reaching deep into the pockets of the consumer. Sharply higher jury awards in vehicular liability cases are putting additional upward pressure on auto insurance rates. The average jury award in auto liability cases rose from $187,000 to $269,000 in 2000, an increase of 44%. I question if any of the lawsuits would be necessary if the company would just fairly pay their claims. The company represents on their web-site that consumer protection is one of their most important goals, but do they really think that courts would be awarding multiple millions of dollars in bad faith claims if that were their emphasis?
First of all the insurance industry spews “rates must be actuarially sound” but they never say what an actuarially sound rate is, AND they use SECRET models to come up with these rates. Don’t tell me that I am paying less then I should be. I have lived in the same county since I was 4 years old and have NEVER had damage from a hurricane, nor had my great-grandparents who were here in the 1940’s! It’s all speculation and fear-mongering! We have not had a hurricane for years and all the insurance industry does is shove it down our throats that we will be hit by the BIG one, each and ever year we hear this. Now lets just say we did get hit by a Katrina type storm…well then they can use the 25 years of my payments that I have NEVER filed a claim to pay my claim. You do know that the insurance industry STILL made R-E-C-O-R-D profits the year of Katrina…don’t you? So don’t tell me that my rates, as they are now are not high enough. Secondly you don’t know where I live but I can tell you that the people in my area are simply stuck with Citizens (those who are not with State Farm) because there is NO other (let me make this clear REGULATED)insurance company that write a policy in this area and it is not because we are coastal! Tell me Mr. Ohio what do you pay for homeowners insurance? I have friends that live in Ohio and live in a 2600sq ft home on 10 acres that pay less then $500 a year for homeowners insurance yet I live in a 2000 sq ft home on 1.5acres and pay $3600 so much for insurance companies spreading the risk!!There has been more natural disasters up north with just like you said Tornadoes, Flooding, and yes they get hurricanes!
If you had read my previous post I do not believe all agents are bad…the ones that are die-hard on this site I believe are not the agents but higher-ups, the ones that have the most to loose when they get cracked down on. Not to mention too much time on their hands and those that simply like to argue.
Kathy,
You might need to do your homework, the entire house does not have to fall into a sinkhole to cost the policy limits to repair. It cost about 10-25K just to determine if it is sinkhole and then it can cost well over 100k just to make repairs for a minor claim. Not all sinkholes are huge openings many just cause the house to sink inches and that is not likely to make the news because from the road you won’t notice the problem.
Here is some data for you, you might want to contact them. Since the 1970s, more tightly clustered sinkholes have been reported in Spring Hill and just south of there, in Hudson and Bayonet Point in western Pasco County, than anywhere else in west central Florida, according to data from the Southwest Florida Water Management District, commonly known as Swiftmud, and the Florida Sinkhole Institute.
The Swiftmud database contains information on sinkholes reported from the early 1970s to 2001 from local and county governments, the Florida Sinkhole Institute and the water management district.
earth movement caused the Wingert family’s stucco home in the Oak Ridge neighborhood of New Port Richey to nearly break in half. With testimony and evidence from Nettles, the Wingerts’ attorney, Richard Heiden, was able to prove in a jury trial that it was one of the slow-moving sinkholes.
Some property owners say the homes sit atop slow-moving sinkholes, the kind that don’t swallow up whole homes or cars and make headlines. Similar claims are being made in communities across west-central Florida, including Ybor City in Hillsborough and New Port Richey in Pasco.
Alan Marshall, an attorney in Pasco County whose firm has 221 sinkhole cases, including 73 involving Citizens, says the state-run company remains the hardest to collect from.
Hernando
May 2009
ABCactionnews.com reports the large sinkhole swallowed up a Spring Hill home in Florida.
Local officials say it’s one of the biggest sinkholes they’ve seen.
Damage to the house and its contents at 2133 block of Orchard Park Drive is put at $US250,000.
Joni Bates was able to get out of the one story concrete block structure safely with her puppies.
She says insurance should cover the damage.
“They just renewed it, believe it or not. So, even though I had a sinkhole, I’m very, very fortunate and I thank God,” she said.
A dozen sinkholes emerge after heavy rains in a section of Spring Hill used to the problem. The home a family rents is condemned.
“My brother thought it might be someone in the house, but then we heard this cracking noise,” the 12-year-old boy said. “I looked around and saw the walls were cracking, the tiles were cracking.”
By the time help arrived at the home at 11053 Marysville St. rented by Darryl and Delzora Hunter, the house’s bathroom had begun to sink into the ground, and one-third of the residence was leaning at a strange angle — the victim of one of 12 sinkholes that opened in the neighborhood after Wednesday’s heavy rains.
“There was no . . . warning,” said Gloria Hunter, the children’s grandmother, with whom the family will now be staying.
The sinkholes were concentrated along Mariner Boulevard from Marysville to Maderia streets, both in lawns and on Mariner Boulevard itself. The holes forced emergency workers to close that segment of Mariner and divert traffic. Repairs will begin today, but the road may stay closed over the weekend, county officials said.
No other houses were affected other than the Hunters’, which was immediately condemned.
Officials said they were impressed not so much by the size of the holes, but by the number of them.
“I haven’t ever experienced this (many) in the years I’ve been in Spring Hill,” said Chief Michael Morgan of Spring Hill Fire Rescue
Your right Kathy Pasco county and areas around your have no sinkholes but the State and news reports show otherwise. When I looked I found tons of ads for attorneys and repair people wanting to help people with sinkhole claims in Pasco county why do they exist if no sinkholes exist? I won’t say the insurance industry is perfect but until humans are perfect nothing will be. Sinkholes will continue to get bad in your area as long as Pinellas county keeps taking all of your water. Find something positive in your life to do. This can’t be good for you.
Kathy, why is it that you think the insurance companies are avoiding you and won’t write coverage in whatever secret area you live in. If you are whining about how expensive the companies are why is it that they do not want YOUR money???
As an agent I know where my companies are writing and I can tell you that with the exception of Monroe County which is 100% coastal and some areas or Hillsborough, Hernando and Pasco counties that are plagued with sinkholes there are many carriers that are open for new business. You have not confirmed if you are or are not coastal but you did say you live on 1.5 acres which most likely means you do not have a fire hydrant within 1000 ft, if this is true it will cost you more and some sompanies will not except you becasue fo the potential increase in damage from a fire that can not be suppressed because of no available water. Because you are so illusive about your actual situation and only care to complain about rates it is hard to determine what your needs are or why you are not able to obtain several quotes. Have you bothered to contact several agents to see what you are missing. Might I add that you need not bother to call State Farm, they will only sell you Citizens, call an independent agent that has options and then listen to what they say. If they have no carriers that will accept you find out why, then we can have another lesson on why insurance is not an entitlement that you deserve, you may live in an area that has not seen a hurricane in decades, I can tell you real easy where you do not live but I can also tell you that your past due if it has been that long. Consumer ignorance about the rating is part of the problem. Carriers are not allowed to base rates on what possible losses may occur and the IRS will not let them stock pile the tons of money it takes to pay cat losses, they have to buy reinsurance in order to cover cat losses and the general every day claims get paid out of general claim funds and surplus. In other words all the money that they take in every year is spent on operating expenses and claims and there is no great piggy bank that they have stored up. Sure they may have 50 million in surplus but they have billions or trillions in potential exposure that could go away in minutes during a cat storm. The business model and government regulations and taxes do not allow them to do what most people think they do with money. I don’t expect to change your mind about the industry but I hope you will take the advice and go shopping. As far as records profits during the 2004 and 2005 claims, Don’t drink the cool aid that the media feeds you. Carriers are regulated by state and rates must be set and approved in each state they do not get to subsidize rates from neighboring states. If you look at the carriers that were paying the claims in Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, etc. they paid out nearly 10 times what they collected in premiums that year. Now did State Farm, Allstate, Nationwide, and the other national carriers post profits as a parent company thruout all 50 states, sure or they would not be here today. but you can not take the money that they make on life insurance to pay for homeowners claims, and you can not use work comp money to pay flood damage. The State regulators do not allow rates to be adjusted to move money around like that. And for the record no carrier in Florida selling property coverage turned a profit in 2004, 2005 and some in 2006 as they were still settling claims. Over $40 billion was paid out and still sdding up with supplemental claims (thank you public adjustors) Insurance companies don’t all seel the same products nor do they sell all products. Progressive does not sell homeowners insurance in most states, they still paid out millions in claims from the storms but their profits were calculated in to the whole. Aflac does not insure anything but people so their profits were included in the total and they never paid a single dime for hurricane damage. hopefully you get the picture, Citizens still has 7 years worth of recoupments to collect the losses that they went insolvent with during 2004 and 2005. The money is not there, and it is not a scare tactic, those storms really did happen and that money really was paid out. And for the record your rates are NOT high enough as evidence by your inability to attract a single carrier to take your coverage. and for the record, you too can pay those Ohio rates, just move there. Have you ever stopped to wonder why rates are different here than in Ohio? is it the politicians or the corrupt companies, and why have they not been successful at doing this in other states like Ohio?
I probably have more education then most of the posters,(agents) on this site. Oh and for your information I am a life-long Republican….that voted for Obama!!
I’m sorry someone made that comment Kathy. I don’t doubt your intelligence. I think we even managed to agree on a topic once which is a sure sign of your intelligence. I simply think you are poorly informed on this particular topic.
I do not live in a secret area but in Pasco County, yes plagued with sinkholes, but not a single hurricane for more years then I have been alive! It is not the “fire” portion of my insurance that is exceedingly high but the hurricane portion…you know the “wind” portion. I currently HAVE State Farm and as many others have been looking for another option as they SAY they are leaving the state. There ARE no other regulated companies besides Citizens that writes in this area. Sinkholes are just another way that the insurance companies can overcharge and or not offer coverage. Again my family and I have lived in this county for over 70 years and we have yet to be blown away by a hurricane OR have our house swallowed up by a sinkhole! Hmmmm wonder what other reasons they could then come up with to not offer coverage!
Consumer ignorance is NOT the problem the insurance companies are having it’s consumer knowledge. The knowledge that these companies are getting rich on our backs!
You say ” Carriers are not allowed to base rates on what possible losses may occur” That statement is a bold face lie! That is exactly what the black-box models are used to do…PROJECT! And as for rein insurance, half the companies are buying it from their parent companies…what a joke that is!
Apparently the part of spreading the risk is no longer what insurance is about…The make “parent” companies to hide assets and tell their stockholders how good of an investment insurance is then cry to the states that they are loosing money so they can raise rates again!
I have said this before but let me explain again….let’s say that Wal-Mart has 10,000 stores in the USA (don’t quote me on this as I have no idea how many stores they have and don’t shop there) but if the store in Tampa, Florida makes 1 million in profit for the year and the store in Minnesota only made $10,000 for the year it does not matter because to get their total profit they add all the store profits together, just like the insurance companies should do. You don’t see Wal-Mac stores in areas that are not as busy or a plagued by shoplifters or what ever lowers their profit, NO they are ALL called Wal-Mart! just like all the State-Farms should be just that, not State-Farm Florida, or Allstate Floridian, it is such a joke! And yes a joke set up by our own legislators!
Why should I have to be forced out of Florida because of greedy insurance companies? My parents are retired and OWN their home and just about can’t afford to stay here because of the high insurance premiums, it’s a joke! That ok because some day Florida will be for the elitists rich and the really really poor that don’t mind living 15 people in a 2 bedroom home that is rented to them by a slum lord! Not me baby, I’m heading for greener pastures in Ohio!!!!!!!!
You are correct about one thing…I do not understand insurance. Although I am educated and do my best to understand models, projection, losses, reinsurance, and such. I still do not understand the need to charge such overwhelming rates, especially since there have been no hurricanes in years and if they keep increasing the rates there will be no one left to insure. And the fact that those who own their homes will simply give up and not insure and then we will be in a mess of trouble with un-insured damaged or destroyed homes. There are currently I believe 1/4 of Floridians that are not unsured. Now that’s a mess!
Kathy, Kathy, Kathy: You are so misguided. If you don’t like State Farm, then cancel your policy. You should be thankful that they even wrote your coverage. Business is business. Nobody wants to lose money. Stores that do not make money eventually close and your Walmart example is dumb. Self insure since you have all the insurance answers. Oh, thats right, you need the coverage. You shouldn’t live in a area plagued with sinkholes. Should have done your homework first.
You have to go back to Andrew to understand why companies are no longer willing to risk an entire companies assets for one state any longer. Beside the company no longer wanting to take that chance the other states no longer want companies to risk their assets on one state either. Florida, California, and Texas all have many of the same issues and many companies have state only carrier that do not share the risk with the rest of the country.
The question is should someone in Iowa pay higher insurance to cover Florida where rates have been underpriced for years so people can live in a high risk area. You have been lucky but not everyone in the State can say the same. If you ask the Iowa insurance commissioner how they feel they might agree to share the risk but only if rates in Florida were set based on exposure not government control. Since they are not the insurance commissioners in other states are fighting your idea of spreading the risk like they do in many states.
If the insurance industry worked like Wal-Mart supply and demand would have fixed this problem years ago. The State has over regulated rates since before Andrew. You could have gotten a policy in Florida for less than Minnasota in 1992 but with so much more exposure. Everyone got relaxed with a 20 years slow down in storm activity, Andrew was the wake up call. During that 20 years rates were kept low but the population grew especially on the coast. If a major storm hit Pasco County today it could cause losses similar or worse than Andrew. Over growth in Florida is one of the problems and on top of that off large companies are leaving or have shut down writing in Florida due to profit issues. Then it takes multiple new companies to replace the ones that leave or shut down. We may have new companies but truely not new competition in the market. I would guess we have lost 175 companies and added maybe 60 new companies since Andrew. It is going to take competative rate and an open market to get more companies to consider Florida. Once that happens rates should drop due more companies to spread the exposure across. People won’t like that because rates will have to jump for this to happen.
The State today is not doing their job as to many of the new companies that have been come in are cherry picking and taking business in the inland areas only. There is lower exposure and more chance for profit inland. That is not really bringing competition in all areas as the State claims they have done.
With regards to sinkholes they are going to occur in areas were the water table has dropped so dramatically like Pasco County. Wanting new companies to write Sinkhole coverage in your area is like living in an area where 5 out of 10 people are getting cancer and everyone knows this is happening and you still want a cancer policy. They will want some test run before they will consider your coverage but the test won’t be cheap so you will have to decide if you want to pay for the test.
Kathy there is not simple fix to this problem and greed isn’t what caused it to get this way. Mulitple factors cuased it and it will take many different things to fix it but under our current governor this won’t happen. If insurance companies could make a profit in your area or the State for that matter they would be standing in line to get the business. Most of the new companies are investment groups not insurance companies as you would think of. Most hoping to get a foot hold and make some money down the road and take care of their customers but just one hurricane could change all of that. You can screem and yell all you want on these blogs that is what is great about America but it won’t change anything. Good Luck when the State run State Farm out it should be interesting mess.
STATE FARM DID NOT GET AWAY WITH RIPPING PEOPLE OFF THATS WAY Customer NEED TO STOP THIS. AND stand up to STATE FARM. WE ALL KNOW YOU TREATS SO TELL THIS BIG STATE FRAM WE THE PEOPLE WILL NOT BUT UP WITH YOUR BS
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE H6903 September 21, 2006 The SPEAKER pro tempore. … Had Mr. Rust been there, I also would have had the opportunity to tell him that . SO . MR RUST IF YOU HAD BEEN THERE I WOULD HAVE PRESENTED YOU WITH THIS LETTER, DETAILING WHAT I THINK YOU HAVE DONE TO THE TAXPAYERS AND TO THE PEOPLE OR SOUTH MISSISSIPPI . PLEASE READ MORE.
Ok Mr. **** Great reports on the Spring Hill home that is NOT in Pasco County and if YOU do your homework there has only been three sinkholes in the ENTIRE state of Florida that have ever swallowed a house. MOST of the sinkhole claims in Pasco and Hernando were scammers getting their houses paid off because it was cheaper for the insurance company to pay off these small homes then to fight the claims. This has slowed down since Pasco County now requires a permit to be pulled and for it to be disclosed when the house is sold, making the house less valuable. Don’t tell me about sinkhole and about the County I live in because I am VERY active in my community and know what is going on! As for this not being “good for me” I feel that my voice should be heard, so deal with it or don’t read!
Kathy, thank you will will avoid your post from here on. I would like to see your list of the only three homes that have fallen into sinkholes in all of Florida. I want to see if you have the one I paid for two years ago or the one two miles from my house that occured in 04. I doubt you will list either one.
Besides that you still don’t understand that sinkholes do not have to take the entire house to cost policy limits. Just to fill in the hole and bring the house level and make repairs can take all of the policy limits just as if it sank completely into the ground. In many cases you also have additional living expenses that are paid while the house is repaired, contents may have to be moved out as well to avoid damage. One of the houses like this I sent you was in Pasco county not spring hill, and you act like Spring Hill is 1000 miles away, its not. Its Pasco Counties back yard.
The water management district also agrees you live in a Sinkhole area. (Since the 1970s, more tightly clustered sinkholes have been reported in Spring Hill and just south of there, in Hudson and Bayonet Point in western Pasco County, than anywhere else in west central Florida, according to data from the Southwest Florida Water Management District, commonly known as Swiftmud, and the Florida Sinkhole Institute.)
I guess Western Pasco County, Hudson and Bayonet Pointe are not part of Pasco County or I guess the government is also not telling the truth. Maybe it was the part where the government said “more tightly clustered sinkholes than anywhere else in Western Central Florida” that made you think they were not talking about Pasco County it must have been California or Arizona. You can speak all you want I won’t be listening anylonger, you don’t want to hear the truth you want to live in a world of dreams and make believe.
Kathy, I agree it is all a conspiracy. The Media is in bed with the insurance companies and they plant these story about sinkholes that really do not exist and no one can prove it. The truth is that the State of Florida politicians are trying to grow Citizens insurance into the largest carrier so we can sell it to China to generate additional revenue for the State budget. My buddy the governor has already started brokering deals to sell Aligator Alley (the last 100 miles of I-75) Once we get rid of all the other insurance companies and sell Citizens you will no longer have to pay taxes for your home, I promise. And the Chinese promise that they will give you good deal.
Interesting that the State Farm agents bashed the new domestics in favor of placing business with Citizens and now many Captive State Farm Agents are opening Idenpendent Agencies to sell the same “crapy” coverage…
BUT, what will corporate State Farm do when they find out that, not only are the State Farm agents selling HOMEOWNERS via their new Independent Agencies, but also AUTO, FLOOD, LIFE, etc. BECAUSE, the underwriting may be easier and the COMMISSION may be HIGHER through their new Independent Agency. Not to mention the fact that the “State Farm” agent will OWN THE BOOK OF BUSINESS WITHIN THE INDEPENDENT AGENCY. When corporate State Farm starts to see business running off the books, what will they do? Maybe the State Farm agents that open independent agencies WANT to run ALL of their State Farm business over to the Independent to STICK IT back to the company? Will EVERY State Farm agent open an Independent? I’m sure there are other State Farm agents in other coastal and non coastal areas of America that would LOVE to have an “Independent on the side”.
Corporate State Farm should send a clear message to ALL SF AGENTS… You’re either loyal to State Farm, and we will work though this problem “we have all created” or when we catch you with direct or indirect ties to an Independent, we’re transfering ALL of your policies to the remaining “LOYAL” SF Agents, and NOW you can be, truely and INDEPENDENT! Heck, I would LOVE to hang a STATE FARM SIGN outside my shop and use the WELL BRANDED NAME to steer business to my independent shop. Maybe all of us independents should check with corporate State Farm and see how much they would charge us monthly for the USE OF THEIR GOOD NAME???
State Farm OVER EXTENDED their property exposure in Florida, just to get to the AUTO business, with NO CONCERN FOR PROPERTY UNDERWRITING VALUES. That IS the FLORIDA PROBLEM for State Farm. Dumping their STAGNATING BOOK and starting over WITH UNDERWRITING CONCERNS as a priority, would be a solution. Let’s see how many “loyal” SF Agents are willing to wait and work harder when their new property market opens, SUBJECT TO KEEN UNDERWRITING requirements. They’ve had it VERY EASY for 30 PLUS YEARS in “Giving Away The Farm”.
Welcome to my Independent World of UNDERWITING CONCERN, just take down that STATE FARM SIGN and be a true competitor within the INDEPENDENT agency system…
GOOD LUCK!
This is nothing new, State Farm agents have set up insependent shops under their families names for years and State Farm knows it. Up until now it has mainly been for the property coverage but I am sure the Auto will now fall in play as they attempt to flee from the once almighty good neighbor. State Farm will be around just in a different capacity, much smaller and thankfully with fewer agents. They were a bit top heavy with agents, but then with that contract why not. It will be interesting to see how it plays out from the agents side and the company.
JR,
Are you saying the corporate State Farm allows their “captives” to open independents through realatives, friends or other “indirect means”?
I just read a google search about a 30 plus year State Farm Agent in Galviston TX that had over 5000 State Farm Auto Policies transfered to other agents, for some mysterious reason, then… POOF, he is immediately an Independent and trying to compete to get those State Farm clients back, via his “new” independent. Sounds to me like he HAD the independent “on the side” and State Farm “canned him” and transfered his entire book to the loyal State Farm agents.
If coporate State Farm allowed thier “captives” to open independents, why wouldn’t EVERY STATE FARM AGENT want an indepdent to steer business too? The commissions are HIGHER and the underwriting can be easier for AUTO, LIFE, and of course PROPERTY, especially in costal areas.
I find it hard to believe that corporate State Farm is ok with its “captives” operating independents, but… apparatenly that is happing “en masse”. Unless corporate is just biding its time, to see who is loyal, then BAM, breach of contract and all of the State Farm “captive’s” polices are transfered.
Of course, if corporate State Farm is now embracing the indepdent agecy side… I would like to rent a STATE FARM SIGN for my independent shop, since corpoate SF may no longer care about “steering” or it’s own good name or client base anymore.
Give me a State Farm Sign Too!
I can not comment on the contractual relationship or what the contract says that family members can do (unenforcable in my opinion) but I can tell you that several large independent agencies in my town are owned by the wives of several large and well established State Farm agents in the same town. and it has been this way for more than 10 years. If all the independents knew it, I can help but believe that SF knew who it was. But if an agent / employee is dumb enough to sign a contract that dictates what his wife or kids can do for a living, that is their problem. I am not a SF agent but have several friends that are, and trust me in Florida, many have drank the cool aid, but just as many are looking to transfer to other states or they have family that is suddenly in business here.
JR,
WOW! Your local, LARGE State Farm agents have 10 YEAR HISTORY of “steering” business to their, indirectly owned Independent Agencies.
How does corporate State Farm know if these “captive” State Farm Agent’s aren’t getting more COMMISSION on FLOOD, AUTO & LIFE via their independents? I guess the answere is… corporate SF doesn’t know, and apparently doesn’t care.
SO… If I were a State Farm Agent, ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY, I would CERTAINLY WANT AN INDEPENDENT “ON THE SIDE”!
Sate Farm agent’s that don’t have their independent agencies “on ths side” yet…should contact thier AFO’s and demand approval to start an independent on the side and confirm that it is in no way a conflict of thier contract as, apparently, many other State Farm agents are doing the same thing. A statement of confrirmation from Boomington should also be obtained, clerifying, that corporate State Farm allows independent agencies “on the side”.
But why not just skip the BS and allow DIRECT OWNERSHIP of the independent by the “captive” State Farm Agent? What’s the difference? Does corporate State Farm “pick and choose” which agent’s they allow/look the other way, when it comes to having an independent “on the side”.
I say, LET EVERY STATE FARM AGENT IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY HAVE AN INDEPENDENT AGENCY!
Then, let me RENT a STATE FARM SIGN so I can place it on the storefront of my independent. No, I don’t want to sell State Farm.. too expensive and hard to place, I just want to use the SIGN… In the same manner as ALL OF YOUR EXISTING STATE FARM AGENTS are doing, with independents “on the side”.
These independent agencies owned by the SF families have not been writting business that was eligible for SF. They were not targeting the auto that SF is very competetive on, but they were placing the lines of business that SF does not write such as homeowners, dwelling fire, and some commercial lines. It was not a problem for SF corporate since they were still getting what they wanted. Do not try to read into this for your benefit. I do not believe that this was a threat to SF in the past but it may be in the future. I’m not a betting man but I would bet that SF does not allow agents to become independent and I hope for the sake of contract law that they do not. Just think of the agents that plan on staying with them that will acquire many clients from the agents that do jump ship. And lets not forget that the contract allows for NO ownership and has an anti piracy clause. You better believe SF will go after violators, but not so sure how they can prosecute the spouse or child that happens to have an ind agency. Just remember the client will not tolerate much of it either way and they will most likely be pissed off at the SF agent even if he becomes an IND. they are just as likely to go find another IND agent down the road. seems like that has been the trend so far. Final thought, your not likely to get that State Farm sign to hang out front and other than the old good will that the name had why would you want it today?
You are wrong! In my area, which is NOT coastal there is NO one other then Citizens that writes policies so if you want insurance you are stuck with Citizens!
The only crock here is STATEFAM!
State Farm is at fault becuase they are a geedy money hungry company that always wants more and more and more and more and more!
You say you don’t need big brother looking out for you, well when State Farm increases your premium double or triple or more and you have no other choice then Citizens at an outrageous rate then you will be looking for big brother, won’t you! I love people like you that have not felt the true pain of un-affordable insurance and don’t know what is happening to anyone else but yourself! Try paying $10,000 a year to insure a $200k home!
How can State Farm agents continue to write with Citizens when State Farm pulls out of the state? Citizens requires that an agent be appointed with an admitted homeowner’s company to keep a Citizens appointment. What am I missing here?
Aaaah, because, like most Floridians looking for homeowners insurance from someone other than State Farm, they would end up with Citizens?
In the current marketplace there are many choices other than Citizens, some much better than others, but regardless…many choices. Throw even 500,000 policies onto the market and it’s going to dry up very quickly. To have a Citizens appointment you must be appointed with an admitted carrier, so I pose my question again. With no admitted carrier, how are State Farm agents going to continue to represent Citizens?
Does McCarty think he is master of the universe or what?
A quick search on the Internet will tell you the truth about State Farm. Here are a few examples.
“How Insurance Companies, Deny, Delay, Confuse and Refuse”
http://www.justice.org/resources/InsuranceTactics.pdf
“Delay, Deny and Underpay”
http://www.greedytriallawyer.com/the-latest-baddest/delay-deny-and-underpay-is-this-any-way-to-run-an-insurance-company.php
“Don’t Bet the (State) Farm II”
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/opinion/epaper/2009/06/28/a22a_schultzcol_0628.html
You should be happy to see them leave then with all this totally factual information on your links. Why the controversy? Maybe because the whole self-inflicted wound that is the FL property insurance market is a crock.
I have had State Farm auto for 17 years, and Homeowners for 11 years. One auto at fault accident and the claims was adjusted professionally. Two Ho claims, one water and one from a hurricane. The water claim was adjudicated professionally. The hurricane claim took a little back and forth due to the number of hurricane claims in 2005. They came around but it was unusaul times. Let them charge what they want and if you do not like their price shop around. It is suppose to be a free country.
Yeah, your a SF customer, I wish I had about 1200 just like you “Let them charge what they want”. What planet are you from? SF agents will simply continue to do what they are already doing, forming their own independent agencies, contracting with the same new domestics they claim are so financially unsound, and write the balance with Citizens. So much for the SF is the greatest BS, they will do whatever it takes and whomever it takes to maintain. Can’t say I blame them but shut up with the put downs of the new carriers & other markets that they are now so quick to turn to.
I doubt that SF will allow their agents to sell / place business with other carriers.
Be that as it may, it would be interesting if did, since many of their agents have been advising their clients to stay away from the Florida domiciled companies and to go with Citizens since it is backed by the State of Florida.
I can’t blame SF for leaving. The OIR should be regulating for solvency and let the free market function.
You should be happy State Farm is leaving. Are there any other’s you would like to leave?
I am from planet earth. The world does not revolve around SF residents or agents. State Farm agents should take their business and place it with the free market. Oh, I forgot b/c of SF there is no free market.
Huh, why is it SF’s fault? Missed the logic on that one.
I am not sure but it would seem that SF agents would still be able to sell auto through State Farm Mutual. They will non renew State Farm of Florida business but keep the Mutual to write auto and life products I imagine. Just a guess. I also am tired of the State Farm agents who do nothing but bad mouth every other company while opening agencies under their wife or cousins name and then sell the heck out of those same other carriers. I know it for a fact as I am friend with State Farm employees and also have had some new clients tell me their SF agent told them to come back when their “new agency” opens. You bad mouth the companies but jump on the band wagon to sell it sure shows your true colors. There should be a free market but it should not apply just to State Farm. That would not be a free market to anyone BUT State Farm. I am filling up my share of the market with all their clients who are leaving quickly.
For those out there that have not looked at a Citizens contract, the provisions are that you have at least one active appointment with a carrier that is actually writing business AT THE TIME OF THE APPOINTMENT. It does not require that you have active appointments after you have a Citizens appointment. Yes this is a problem that should be fixed, no I am not a SF agent, but I love how they have pissed off their ever loyal clients.And it is humourous to see how some of them are handling themselves in our real world and trying to figure out what carriers do what and if they have any money in the bank to pay claims. What we have are many brainwashed agents that have never had to function outside the confines of a single rule book, that is not the independent agent way of doing things. Good luck
Yes.
And worse, one who doesn’t fully understand that universe.
I agree with the free market for all companies not just State Farm. Why didn’t the independents work together to get the bill written to include all companies. I saw no support from the independents when the bill was being written but they shouted very load not to let it pass. Sounds like they just want state farm out of the way so they can get the business as it is pouring out. The bad news is the insurance commissioner has a plan that cuts our the independents as well.
You assume that all State Farm agents are bad mouthing the domestic carriers. Not those whose how have a wife opening one of the new independents. They are telling people to hang on and when it is time switch to my wife.
Independents should be asking why are the domestics willing to take on the new agents and leave you to fight for the business. Many are going to cap out when State Farm leave so why bring on new agents? They all want the sure thing.
That is not the point. State Farm wanted deregulation for themselves and a select few companies only. That is the point. State Farm wants things their way and only when it blows up in their face do they then say how it would have helped everyone else. I write plenty of business with them in the State of Florida and don’t necessarily want them to leave. I am just calling out the State Farm agents who talk too much about how wonderful they and their company is and how poor and horrible every other company is while they secretly look for ways to sell the products they bad mouth on these message boards. They say Citizens is the biggest problem but then tell their clients to take Citizens quotes they mail out over any other company. I have spoken to and placed coverage for so many former State Farm clients in the past few months that I sometimes feel that is my biggest source of business. All of them tell the same story. Their agent said not to get insurance with any company someone else offers due to financial issues yet the same agent is ready to place them in Citizens who has the biggest financial issues of them all. I see the problem with that, don’t you?
State farm agts have been bad-mouthing independents for years,,,Citizens too, until they needed it, then its ok, My two large indep. assoc actively endorsed that stupid bill, so did the mortg broker and realtor assoc, against my wishes as an indept and mtg broker.FLDFS should not have a right to tell sf how it distributes policies…look at GEICO. All Fldfs did is try to protect their sf agent buddies, not the independents.
All companies are signing up agents everywhere. That has been happening way before State Farm agents started looking for ways to open independent agencies. It is nothing new. Some carriers do limit their appointments and those carriers get the most business with me. I am not against competition as I have a good work ethic and good product knowledge. Yes, not all State Farm agents bad mouth the independents and the smaller companies but most of those on this message board sure do. Some even hide behind their “I’m a State Farm customer” names to tout how great their company is and how they would pay any amount to keep their policy. Yes, insurance issues in Florida really are bad. Yes we need to find some answers quickly. It just gets old listening to some State Farm agents bad mouth anything not papa State Farm.
WK – I am a state farm customer not an agent or employee or have any members of my family as a state farm employee, past or present. I live in Jacksonville and happen to believe that if I do not like what State farm charges I am free to look elsewhere. it is called a free society or what I like to call a Republican. I do not need “big brother” to look out for me. now that you understand that i did not mis-rep myself, you should apologize.
Interesting that the State Farm agents bashed the new domestics in favor of placing business with Citizens and now many Captive State Farm Agents are opening Idenpendent Agencies to sell the same “crapy” coverage…
BUT, what will corporate State Farm do when they find out that, not only are the State Farm agents selling HOMEOWNERS via their new Independent Agencies, but also AUTO, FLOOD, LIFE, etc. BECAUSE, the underwriting may be easier and the COMMISSION may be HIGHER through their new Independent Agency. Not to mention the fact that the “State Farm” agent will OWN THE BOOK OF BUSINESS WITHIN THE INDEPENDENT AGENCY. When corporate State Farm starts to see business running off the books, what will they do? Maybe the State Farm agents that open independent agencies WANT to run ALL of their State Farm business over to the Independent to STICK IT back to the company? Will EVERY State Farm agent open an Independent? I’m sure there are other State Farm agents in other coastal and non coastal areas of America that would LOVE to have an “Independent on the side”. Corporate State Farm should send a clear message to ALL SF AGENTS… Your either loyal to State Farm, and we will work though this problem “we have all created” or when we catch you with direct or indirect ties to an Independent, we’re transfering ALL of your policies to the remaining “LOYAL” SF Agents, and NOW you can be, truely and INDEPENDENT! Heck, I would LOVE to hang a STATE FARM SIGN outside my shop and use the WELL BRANDED NAME to steer business to my independent shop. Maybe all of us independents should check with corporate State Farm and see how much they would charge us monthly for the USE OF THEIR GOOD NAME???
State Farm OVER EXTENDED their property exposure in Florida, just to get to the AUTO business, with NO CONCERN FOR PROPERTY UNDERWRITING VALUES. That IS the FLORIDA PROBLEM for State Farm. Dumping their STAGNATING BOOK and starting over WITH UNDERWRITING CONCERNS as a priority, would be a solution. Let’s see how many “loyal” SF Agents are willing to wait and work harder when their new property market opens, SUBJECT TO KEEN UNDERWRITING, returns. They’ve had it VERY EASY for 30 PLUS YEARS in “Giving Away The Farm”.
Welcome to my Independent World of UNDERWITING CONCERN, just take down that STATE FARM SIGN and be a true competitor within the INDEPENDENT agency system…
GOOD LUCK!
State Farm and an additional $730 million in punitive damages for the insurer’s breach of contract with auto policy holders by relying on generic replacement parts
So is it the corrupt politicians or the corrupt companies? It can’t be both since the companies are fighting with the politicians to get adequate rates.
I would agree that most of the problems in Florida are political, I do not agree of your portrayal of the agents on this blog. Those agents that say they are agents are hard working honest folks trying to make a living and help clients. Those that are tired of the industry and what it has become and are resentful that work is not fun anymore probably are the ones that ***** about the market conditions. Then the consumers get on here and blab about stuff that they have no knowledge off except that they think they are being ripped off by the big bad insurance people. Good grief go shopping and buy it cheaper, there is not price fixing going on between the companies, you can save a ton if you are willing to shop and do some leg work. If you have not tried, shut up and prove me wrong. If you can not find anyone to offer a quote you either have not looked very far or you live in a shack that no one wants. This applies for almost all areas and counties in Florida. The worst area for rates has been South east and Southwest florida and there are many many companies willing to write homeowners in these areas. If you live near the coast I have a secret to tell you. You have not been paying enough for insurance coverage for 15 years, the risk is higher than anyone wants to believe that wind will destroy your home and you need to prepare to pay it, do without or sell the puppy and move to Kansas where they have hail and tornadoes or Arizona where it is just hotter than hell or Ohio where everyone moves here in the winter. In any case we need a new political climate in Florida and a new regulator until that happens it will get worse every day.
Kathy – Just where do you live, county, prox to coast to pay $10K per year for a $200K home? And with what carrier? Sounds fishy to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP4izb9e7dQ
coverage costs what it costs. You can’t legislate away the actual cost of providing coverage
In Utah, the company was fine $25 million in punitive damages, in part for the “systematic destruction of documents and systematic manipulation of individual claim files to conceal claim mishandling”.
I never said that I lived in an area that charges that but I DO personally know people that are paying that. I also have a family friend who has a $500k home in New Port Richey Florida (NOT on the water)that pays $12,000 a year to insure. You should go to FIRM’s website and read ALL the articles of people in Florida paying $8k to $15k to insure homes, and these are NOT mega-mansions but regular homes. NOT FISHEY but the real truth about the greedy insurance industry!
Here is a clip from one article:
The state officials heard from residents whose insurance bills have already gone from
$3,000 in 2003 to $12,000 now. Let’s hope they took those stories back to Tallahassee
and are making clear that this is untenable.
Watch this video in a new windowHomeowner Insurance Companies Tell Court: “We Wouldn’t Pay a Dime” . . . Unless Sued! you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP4izb9e7dQ
July 01, 2009
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Hey Kathy, why don’t you really fix the bad old insurance companies, pay off your home (or don’t own one), give up your vehicles and take public transportation or hire taxis, rent anything else you want, then you won’t have to pay any insurance on anything! No one has to pay any insurance, they have choices, make your choices and quit whining. Or take all your money and invest it in stock of insurance companies that only write homeowners in Florida and get in on the gravy train, or better yet, take all your money and get about 10,000 others like yourself and form your own Florida only homeowners company and really make a ton of dough. As you know, there won’t be any more storms or if there is one, you will make your money back hand over fist in just a year or two. Let us all know how this works out for you, maybe you’ll even appoint us to represent your new company and we will get rich as well.
It is so easy today to make an entire company look bad for a single error or the errors of a few bad employees. I like having conversations on the problems of the industry but to say one event represents an entire industry or company is just blind and one sided. You say the insurance industry is bad but the agents that blog on this site are not going to agree with you. We work hard to take care of our customer’s needs and help them with disbutes when they arise which is not often. I’m sorry that you have a bad taste for the insurance industry but bad apples have existed since the beginning of time however that does not make the entire industry bad.
Trust me if I could fix the big bad insurance companies I would! The problem is that I am not a corrupt politician that has big fat pockets full of insurance money!
Why should I have to give up my vehicle, get rid of my house, boat, etc., because of a greedy company! And sorry but just because insurance is a necessary evil does not give the insurance industry the right to gouge people or take advantage of them!
BTW I would NEVER hire any insurance giants to do any business for me as they are corrupt!
All I can pray is that you snotty agents that think you know it all and are loyal to these rapists companies feel their rath one day…oh and you will!
When you go to the grocery, do you tell the clerk that you are not willing to pay what they want to charge for your things because you can’t afford them. Kathy, coverage costs what it costs. You can’t legislate away the actual cost of providing coverage. This is what has been tried in Florida and your system will collapse when the next big storm hits. Companies can’t provide coverage at a loss. That’s why the reputable companies no longer write property in Florida. I know you won’t ever accept any arguement, but I thought I would try again. I’m sorry for your pain, but it’s not the fault of the insurers, it’s just the cost of the product. The system set up by the politicians in Florida will and has to fail since it isn’t based on any logic or real statistics. That is a crock.
I don’t think ALL agents are bad and really I believe that the ones on this site are not really the hard working agents but higher-ups that are sinking in the blood money of their greedy companies. I believe the adverage agent is a hard-working regular person and one of my best friends works for State Farm, a company that even SHE thinks is corrupt but right now it is a job!
TO THE UNTOUCHABLES. Edward B. Rust, Jr., will be happy to tell you that he is the Chief Executive Officer of State Farm Mutual Insurance Company. He has deep family ties to State Farm, as his father and grand father have both served in that capacity. He will also tell you that he is an educated man who has been to law school and is a past practicing attorney. In addition, he was the chairman of the Coalition for Excellence in Education and a member of George W. Bush’s transition advisory team on education. So with all of that education why will he not deal with his company’s inbred greed. Does he not know that we are in the 21st century where anyone can look on the internet and see the billions of dollars that are being spent to protect their empire from the consumer? In Utah, the company was fine $25 million in punitive damages, in part for the “systematic destruction of documents and systematic manipulation of individual claim files to conceal claim mishandling”. An Idaho appeals court fined the company $9.5 million in punitive damages for making use of “a completely bogus” outside bill review company that helped lower the cost of medical bills. In October of 1999, an Illinois jury rendered a $456 million judgment against State Farm and an additional $730 million in punitive damages for the insurer’s breach of contract with auto policy holders by relying on generic replacement parts. Rust was adamant in his insistence that fraud had not been committed. A class action law suit in the name of State Farm policy holders was filed in 2003 for breach of contract and statutory consumer fraud in which $1.1 billion was awarded to plaintiffs. When a company is misleading the public, should that not be considered fraud? A consumer would go to prison for that type of behavior. State Farm will let you know that, in several states, fraud and abuse is pushing up the cost of auto insurance. A court in late 2001 reached an unfriendly consumer decision that could have the effect of reaching deep into the pockets of the consumer. Sharply higher jury awards in vehicular liability cases are putting additional upward pressure on auto insurance rates. The average jury award in auto liability cases rose from $187,000 to $269,000 in 2000, an increase of 44%. I question if any of the lawsuits would be necessary if the company would just fairly pay their claims. The company represents on their web-site that consumer protection is one of their most important goals, but do they really think that courts would be awarding multiple millions of dollars in bad faith claims if that were their emphasis? State Farm’s ratings are based on their financial strength. State Farm states that their high ratings are also based on strong claims paying ability. With this ability, why is it necessary for their policy holders to allege that the claims department was directed, in evaluating their cases, to take them to trial instead of settling within the limits of the policy? This practice exposed policyholders to judgments above the limits of their policies, when the company was attempting to make an effort to win smaller decisions. Two former in-house attorneys for State Farm contend that they were often called upon by the insurer to represent its’ policy holders and were forced to commit “unlawful and unethical activities, including requiring the two to stay silent about the rights of the policyholders”. State Farm seems to have reckless indifference for the truth for the purpose of corporate and personal economic gain. State Farm should know that continued scrutiny of their claims paying practices will continue especially with the advent of new claims that are surfacing from lawsuits revolving around Hurricane Katrina. A message to Mr. Rust, and any employee of the company that is acting in bad faith for its policy holders. Its time to stop no more.
I should have done my homework!!!!! You are a fool! I have lived here all my life as has my parent, grand-parents, and great-grandparents! It is the insurance companies and the scammers that have deemed this a sinkhole prone area. Please find me information on lets say THREE houses that have sank into the ground in Pasco County in lets say the last 50 years…or even 100!!!! There aren’t any!!!
an Illinois jury rendered a $456 million judgment against State Farm and an additional $730 million in punitive damages for the insurer’s breach of contract with auto policy holders by relying on generic replacement parts. Rust was adamant in his insistence that fraud had not been committed. A class action law suit in the name of State Farm policy holders was filed in 2003 for breach of contract and statutory consumer fraud in which $1.1 billion was awarded to plaintiffs.
Rust was adamant in his insistence that fraud had not been committed. just may be RUST SHOULD LOOK THE WORD FRAUD…………..
A class action law suit in the name of State Farm policy holders was filed in 2003 for breach of contract and statutory consumer fraud in which $1.1 billion was awarded to plaintiffs. When a company is misleading the public, should that not be considered fraud? A consumer would go to prison for that type of behavior. State Farm will let you know that, in several states, fraud and abuse is pushing up the cost of auto insurance. A court in late 2001 reached an unfriendly consumer decision that could have the effect of reaching deep into the pockets of the consumer. Sharply higher jury awards in vehicular liability cases are putting additional upward pressure on auto insurance rates. The average jury award in auto liability cases rose from $187,000 to $269,000 in 2000, an increase of 44%. I question if any of the lawsuits would be necessary if the company would just fairly pay their claims. The company represents on their web-site that consumer protection is one of their most important goals, but do they really think that courts would be awarding multiple millions of dollars in bad faith claims if that were their emphasis?
First of all the insurance industry spews “rates must be actuarially sound” but they never say what an actuarially sound rate is, AND they use SECRET models to come up with these rates. Don’t tell me that I am paying less then I should be. I have lived in the same county since I was 4 years old and have NEVER had damage from a hurricane, nor had my great-grandparents who were here in the 1940’s! It’s all speculation and fear-mongering! We have not had a hurricane for years and all the insurance industry does is shove it down our throats that we will be hit by the BIG one, each and ever year we hear this. Now lets just say we did get hit by a Katrina type storm…well then they can use the 25 years of my payments that I have NEVER filed a claim to pay my claim. You do know that the insurance industry STILL made R-E-C-O-R-D profits the year of Katrina…don’t you? So don’t tell me that my rates, as they are now are not high enough. Secondly you don’t know where I live but I can tell you that the people in my area are simply stuck with Citizens (those who are not with State Farm) because there is NO other (let me make this clear REGULATED)insurance company that write a policy in this area and it is not because we are coastal! Tell me Mr. Ohio what do you pay for homeowners insurance? I have friends that live in Ohio and live in a 2600sq ft home on 10 acres that pay less then $500 a year for homeowners insurance yet I live in a 2000 sq ft home on 1.5acres and pay $3600 so much for insurance companies spreading the risk!!There has been more natural disasters up north with just like you said Tornadoes, Flooding, and yes they get hurricanes!
If you had read my previous post I do not believe all agents are bad…the ones that are die-hard on this site I believe are not the agents but higher-ups, the ones that have the most to loose when they get cracked down on. Not to mention too much time on their hands and those that simply like to argue.
Kathy,
You might need to do your homework, the entire house does not have to fall into a sinkhole to cost the policy limits to repair. It cost about 10-25K just to determine if it is sinkhole and then it can cost well over 100k just to make repairs for a minor claim. Not all sinkholes are huge openings many just cause the house to sink inches and that is not likely to make the news because from the road you won’t notice the problem.
Here is some data for you, you might want to contact them. Since the 1970s, more tightly clustered sinkholes have been reported in Spring Hill and just south of there, in Hudson and Bayonet Point in western Pasco County, than anywhere else in west central Florida, according to data from the Southwest Florida Water Management District, commonly known as Swiftmud, and the Florida Sinkhole Institute.
The Swiftmud database contains information on sinkholes reported from the early 1970s to 2001 from local and county governments, the Florida Sinkhole Institute and the water management district.
earth movement caused the Wingert family’s stucco home in the Oak Ridge neighborhood of New Port Richey to nearly break in half. With testimony and evidence from Nettles, the Wingerts’ attorney, Richard Heiden, was able to prove in a jury trial that it was one of the slow-moving sinkholes.
Some property owners say the homes sit atop slow-moving sinkholes, the kind that don’t swallow up whole homes or cars and make headlines. Similar claims are being made in communities across west-central Florida, including Ybor City in Hillsborough and New Port Richey in Pasco.
Alan Marshall, an attorney in Pasco County whose firm has 221 sinkhole cases, including 73 involving Citizens, says the state-run company remains the hardest to collect from.
Hernando
May 2009
ABCactionnews.com reports the large sinkhole swallowed up a Spring Hill home in Florida.
Local officials say it’s one of the biggest sinkholes they’ve seen.
Damage to the house and its contents at 2133 block of Orchard Park Drive is put at $US250,000.
Joni Bates was able to get out of the one story concrete block structure safely with her puppies.
She says insurance should cover the damage.
“They just renewed it, believe it or not. So, even though I had a sinkhole, I’m very, very fortunate and I thank God,” she said.
Try the link below to see a nice photo of a home in the sinkhole
http://www.theledger.com/article/20090507/NEWS/905079975?Title=Sink-Hole-Swallows-Home-in-Spring-Hill – 56k – Cached
A dozen sinkholes emerge after heavy rains in a section of Spring Hill used to the problem. The home a family rents is condemned.
“My brother thought it might be someone in the house, but then we heard this cracking noise,” the 12-year-old boy said. “I looked around and saw the walls were cracking, the tiles were cracking.”
By the time help arrived at the home at 11053 Marysville St. rented by Darryl and Delzora Hunter, the house’s bathroom had begun to sink into the ground, and one-third of the residence was leaning at a strange angle — the victim of one of 12 sinkholes that opened in the neighborhood after Wednesday’s heavy rains.
“There was no . . . warning,” said Gloria Hunter, the children’s grandmother, with whom the family will now be staying.
The sinkholes were concentrated along Mariner Boulevard from Marysville to Maderia streets, both in lawns and on Mariner Boulevard itself. The holes forced emergency workers to close that segment of Mariner and divert traffic. Repairs will begin today, but the road may stay closed over the weekend, county officials said.
No other houses were affected other than the Hunters’, which was immediately condemned.
Officials said they were impressed not so much by the size of the holes, but by the number of them.
“I haven’t ever experienced this (many) in the years I’ve been in Spring Hill,” said Chief Michael Morgan of Spring Hill Fire Rescue
Your right Kathy Pasco county and areas around your have no sinkholes but the State and news reports show otherwise. When I looked I found tons of ads for attorneys and repair people wanting to help people with sinkhole claims in Pasco county why do they exist if no sinkholes exist? I won’t say the insurance industry is perfect but until humans are perfect nothing will be. Sinkholes will continue to get bad in your area as long as Pinellas county keeps taking all of your water. Find something positive in your life to do. This can’t be good for you.
Kathy, why is it that you think the insurance companies are avoiding you and won’t write coverage in whatever secret area you live in. If you are whining about how expensive the companies are why is it that they do not want YOUR money???
As an agent I know where my companies are writing and I can tell you that with the exception of Monroe County which is 100% coastal and some areas or Hillsborough, Hernando and Pasco counties that are plagued with sinkholes there are many carriers that are open for new business. You have not confirmed if you are or are not coastal but you did say you live on 1.5 acres which most likely means you do not have a fire hydrant within 1000 ft, if this is true it will cost you more and some sompanies will not except you becasue fo the potential increase in damage from a fire that can not be suppressed because of no available water. Because you are so illusive about your actual situation and only care to complain about rates it is hard to determine what your needs are or why you are not able to obtain several quotes. Have you bothered to contact several agents to see what you are missing. Might I add that you need not bother to call State Farm, they will only sell you Citizens, call an independent agent that has options and then listen to what they say. If they have no carriers that will accept you find out why, then we can have another lesson on why insurance is not an entitlement that you deserve, you may live in an area that has not seen a hurricane in decades, I can tell you real easy where you do not live but I can also tell you that your past due if it has been that long. Consumer ignorance about the rating is part of the problem. Carriers are not allowed to base rates on what possible losses may occur and the IRS will not let them stock pile the tons of money it takes to pay cat losses, they have to buy reinsurance in order to cover cat losses and the general every day claims get paid out of general claim funds and surplus. In other words all the money that they take in every year is spent on operating expenses and claims and there is no great piggy bank that they have stored up. Sure they may have 50 million in surplus but they have billions or trillions in potential exposure that could go away in minutes during a cat storm. The business model and government regulations and taxes do not allow them to do what most people think they do with money. I don’t expect to change your mind about the industry but I hope you will take the advice and go shopping. As far as records profits during the 2004 and 2005 claims, Don’t drink the cool aid that the media feeds you. Carriers are regulated by state and rates must be set and approved in each state they do not get to subsidize rates from neighboring states. If you look at the carriers that were paying the claims in Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, etc. they paid out nearly 10 times what they collected in premiums that year. Now did State Farm, Allstate, Nationwide, and the other national carriers post profits as a parent company thruout all 50 states, sure or they would not be here today. but you can not take the money that they make on life insurance to pay for homeowners claims, and you can not use work comp money to pay flood damage. The State regulators do not allow rates to be adjusted to move money around like that. And for the record no carrier in Florida selling property coverage turned a profit in 2004, 2005 and some in 2006 as they were still settling claims. Over $40 billion was paid out and still sdding up with supplemental claims (thank you public adjustors) Insurance companies don’t all seel the same products nor do they sell all products. Progressive does not sell homeowners insurance in most states, they still paid out millions in claims from the storms but their profits were calculated in to the whole. Aflac does not insure anything but people so their profits were included in the total and they never paid a single dime for hurricane damage. hopefully you get the picture, Citizens still has 7 years worth of recoupments to collect the losses that they went insolvent with during 2004 and 2005. The money is not there, and it is not a scare tactic, those storms really did happen and that money really was paid out. And for the record your rates are NOT high enough as evidence by your inability to attract a single carrier to take your coverage. and for the record, you too can pay those Ohio rates, just move there. Have you ever stopped to wonder why rates are different here than in Ohio? is it the politicians or the corrupt companies, and why have they not been successful at doing this in other states like Ohio?
I agree JR, Long but worth it.
Yeah JR, free flow there. It is great, but looks like one long sentence.
Well put JR – kathy just wants to complain. She never answered my question. What a dumb bunny! and I’ll bet a democract that voted for Obama.
I probably have more education then most of the posters,(agents) on this site. Oh and for your information I am a life-long Republican….that voted for Obama!!
I’m sorry someone made that comment Kathy. I don’t doubt your intelligence. I think we even managed to agree on a topic once which is a sure sign of your intelligence. I simply think you are poorly informed on this particular topic.
I do not live in a secret area but in Pasco County, yes plagued with sinkholes, but not a single hurricane for more years then I have been alive! It is not the “fire” portion of my insurance that is exceedingly high but the hurricane portion…you know the “wind” portion. I currently HAVE State Farm and as many others have been looking for another option as they SAY they are leaving the state. There ARE no other regulated companies besides Citizens that writes in this area. Sinkholes are just another way that the insurance companies can overcharge and or not offer coverage. Again my family and I have lived in this county for over 70 years and we have yet to be blown away by a hurricane OR have our house swallowed up by a sinkhole! Hmmmm wonder what other reasons they could then come up with to not offer coverage!
Consumer ignorance is NOT the problem the insurance companies are having it’s consumer knowledge. The knowledge that these companies are getting rich on our backs!
You say ” Carriers are not allowed to base rates on what possible losses may occur” That statement is a bold face lie! That is exactly what the black-box models are used to do…PROJECT! And as for rein insurance, half the companies are buying it from their parent companies…what a joke that is!
Apparently the part of spreading the risk is no longer what insurance is about…The make “parent” companies to hide assets and tell their stockholders how good of an investment insurance is then cry to the states that they are loosing money so they can raise rates again!
I have said this before but let me explain again….let’s say that Wal-Mart has 10,000 stores in the USA (don’t quote me on this as I have no idea how many stores they have and don’t shop there) but if the store in Tampa, Florida makes 1 million in profit for the year and the store in Minnesota only made $10,000 for the year it does not matter because to get their total profit they add all the store profits together, just like the insurance companies should do. You don’t see Wal-Mac stores in areas that are not as busy or a plagued by shoplifters or what ever lowers their profit, NO they are ALL called Wal-Mart! just like all the State-Farms should be just that, not State-Farm Florida, or Allstate Floridian, it is such a joke! And yes a joke set up by our own legislators!
Why should I have to be forced out of Florida because of greedy insurance companies? My parents are retired and OWN their home and just about can’t afford to stay here because of the high insurance premiums, it’s a joke! That ok because some day Florida will be for the elitists rich and the really really poor that don’t mind living 15 people in a 2 bedroom home that is rented to them by a slum lord! Not me baby, I’m heading for greener pastures in Ohio!!!!!!!!
You are correct about one thing…I do not understand insurance. Although I am educated and do my best to understand models, projection, losses, reinsurance, and such. I still do not understand the need to charge such overwhelming rates, especially since there have been no hurricanes in years and if they keep increasing the rates there will be no one left to insure. And the fact that those who own their homes will simply give up and not insure and then we will be in a mess of trouble with un-insured damaged or destroyed homes. There are currently I believe 1/4 of Floridians that are not unsured. Now that’s a mess!
Kathy, Kathy, Kathy: You are so misguided. If you don’t like State Farm, then cancel your policy. You should be thankful that they even wrote your coverage. Business is business. Nobody wants to lose money. Stores that do not make money eventually close and your Walmart example is dumb. Self insure since you have all the insurance answers. Oh, thats right, you need the coverage. You shouldn’t live in a area plagued with sinkholes. Should have done your homework first.
Kathy,
You have to go back to Andrew to understand why companies are no longer willing to risk an entire companies assets for one state any longer. Beside the company no longer wanting to take that chance the other states no longer want companies to risk their assets on one state either. Florida, California, and Texas all have many of the same issues and many companies have state only carrier that do not share the risk with the rest of the country.
The question is should someone in Iowa pay higher insurance to cover Florida where rates have been underpriced for years so people can live in a high risk area. You have been lucky but not everyone in the State can say the same. If you ask the Iowa insurance commissioner how they feel they might agree to share the risk but only if rates in Florida were set based on exposure not government control. Since they are not the insurance commissioners in other states are fighting your idea of spreading the risk like they do in many states.
If the insurance industry worked like Wal-Mart supply and demand would have fixed this problem years ago. The State has over regulated rates since before Andrew. You could have gotten a policy in Florida for less than Minnasota in 1992 but with so much more exposure. Everyone got relaxed with a 20 years slow down in storm activity, Andrew was the wake up call. During that 20 years rates were kept low but the population grew especially on the coast. If a major storm hit Pasco County today it could cause losses similar or worse than Andrew. Over growth in Florida is one of the problems and on top of that off large companies are leaving or have shut down writing in Florida due to profit issues. Then it takes multiple new companies to replace the ones that leave or shut down. We may have new companies but truely not new competition in the market. I would guess we have lost 175 companies and added maybe 60 new companies since Andrew. It is going to take competative rate and an open market to get more companies to consider Florida. Once that happens rates should drop due more companies to spread the exposure across. People won’t like that because rates will have to jump for this to happen.
The State today is not doing their job as to many of the new companies that have been come in are cherry picking and taking business in the inland areas only. There is lower exposure and more chance for profit inland. That is not really bringing competition in all areas as the State claims they have done.
With regards to sinkholes they are going to occur in areas were the water table has dropped so dramatically like Pasco County. Wanting new companies to write Sinkhole coverage in your area is like living in an area where 5 out of 10 people are getting cancer and everyone knows this is happening and you still want a cancer policy. They will want some test run before they will consider your coverage but the test won’t be cheap so you will have to decide if you want to pay for the test.
Kathy there is not simple fix to this problem and greed isn’t what caused it to get this way. Mulitple factors cuased it and it will take many different things to fix it but under our current governor this won’t happen. If insurance companies could make a profit in your area or the State for that matter they would be standing in line to get the business. Most of the new companies are investment groups not insurance companies as you would think of. Most hoping to get a foot hold and make some money down the road and take care of their customers but just one hurricane could change all of that. You can screem and yell all you want on these blogs that is what is great about America but it won’t change anything. Good Luck when the State run State Farm out it should be interesting mess.
STATE FARM DID NOT GET AWAY WITH RIPPING PEOPLE OFF THATS WAY Customer NEED TO STOP THIS. AND stand up to STATE FARM. WE ALL KNOW YOU TREATS SO TELL THIS BIG STATE FRAM WE THE PEOPLE WILL NOT BUT UP WITH YOUR BS
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE H6903 September 21, 2006 The SPEAKER pro tempore. … Had Mr. Rust been there, I also would have had the opportunity to tell him that . SO . MR RUST IF YOU HAD BEEN THERE I WOULD HAVE PRESENTED YOU WITH THIS LETTER, DETAILING WHAT I THINK YOU HAVE DONE TO THE TAXPAYERS AND TO THE PEOPLE OR SOUTH MISSISSIPPI . PLEASE READ MORE.
Ok Mr. **** Great reports on the Spring Hill home that is NOT in Pasco County and if YOU do your homework there has only been three sinkholes in the ENTIRE state of Florida that have ever swallowed a house. MOST of the sinkhole claims in Pasco and Hernando were scammers getting their houses paid off because it was cheaper for the insurance company to pay off these small homes then to fight the claims. This has slowed down since Pasco County now requires a permit to be pulled and for it to be disclosed when the house is sold, making the house less valuable. Don’t tell me about sinkhole and about the County I live in because I am VERY active in my community and know what is going on! As for this not being “good for me” I feel that my voice should be heard, so deal with it or don’t read!
Kathy, thank you will will avoid your post from here on. I would like to see your list of the only three homes that have fallen into sinkholes in all of Florida. I want to see if you have the one I paid for two years ago or the one two miles from my house that occured in 04. I doubt you will list either one.
Besides that you still don’t understand that sinkholes do not have to take the entire house to cost policy limits. Just to fill in the hole and bring the house level and make repairs can take all of the policy limits just as if it sank completely into the ground. In many cases you also have additional living expenses that are paid while the house is repaired, contents may have to be moved out as well to avoid damage. One of the houses like this I sent you was in Pasco county not spring hill, and you act like Spring Hill is 1000 miles away, its not. Its Pasco Counties back yard.
The water management district also agrees you live in a Sinkhole area. (Since the 1970s, more tightly clustered sinkholes have been reported in Spring Hill and just south of there, in Hudson and Bayonet Point in western Pasco County, than anywhere else in west central Florida, according to data from the Southwest Florida Water Management District, commonly known as Swiftmud, and the Florida Sinkhole Institute.)
I guess Western Pasco County, Hudson and Bayonet Pointe are not part of Pasco County or I guess the government is also not telling the truth. Maybe it was the part where the government said “more tightly clustered sinkholes than anywhere else in Western Central Florida” that made you think they were not talking about Pasco County it must have been California or Arizona. You can speak all you want I won’t be listening anylonger, you don’t want to hear the truth you want to live in a world of dreams and make believe.
Kathy, I agree it is all a conspiracy. The Media is in bed with the insurance companies and they plant these story about sinkholes that really do not exist and no one can prove it. The truth is that the State of Florida politicians are trying to grow Citizens insurance into the largest carrier so we can sell it to China to generate additional revenue for the State budget. My buddy the governor has already started brokering deals to sell Aligator Alley (the last 100 miles of I-75) Once we get rid of all the other insurance companies and sell Citizens you will no longer have to pay taxes for your home, I promise. And the Chinese promise that they will give you good deal.
Interesting that the State Farm agents bashed the new domestics in favor of placing business with Citizens and now many Captive State Farm Agents are opening Idenpendent Agencies to sell the same “crapy” coverage…
BUT, what will corporate State Farm do when they find out that, not only are the State Farm agents selling HOMEOWNERS via their new Independent Agencies, but also AUTO, FLOOD, LIFE, etc. BECAUSE, the underwriting may be easier and the COMMISSION may be HIGHER through their new Independent Agency. Not to mention the fact that the “State Farm” agent will OWN THE BOOK OF BUSINESS WITHIN THE INDEPENDENT AGENCY. When corporate State Farm starts to see business running off the books, what will they do? Maybe the State Farm agents that open independent agencies WANT to run ALL of their State Farm business over to the Independent to STICK IT back to the company? Will EVERY State Farm agent open an Independent? I’m sure there are other State Farm agents in other coastal and non coastal areas of America that would LOVE to have an “Independent on the side”.
Corporate State Farm should send a clear message to ALL SF AGENTS… You’re either loyal to State Farm, and we will work though this problem “we have all created” or when we catch you with direct or indirect ties to an Independent, we’re transfering ALL of your policies to the remaining “LOYAL” SF Agents, and NOW you can be, truely and INDEPENDENT! Heck, I would LOVE to hang a STATE FARM SIGN outside my shop and use the WELL BRANDED NAME to steer business to my independent shop. Maybe all of us independents should check with corporate State Farm and see how much they would charge us monthly for the USE OF THEIR GOOD NAME???
State Farm OVER EXTENDED their property exposure in Florida, just to get to the AUTO business, with NO CONCERN FOR PROPERTY UNDERWRITING VALUES. That IS the FLORIDA PROBLEM for State Farm. Dumping their STAGNATING BOOK and starting over WITH UNDERWRITING CONCERNS as a priority, would be a solution. Let’s see how many “loyal” SF Agents are willing to wait and work harder when their new property market opens, SUBJECT TO KEEN UNDERWRITING requirements. They’ve had it VERY EASY for 30 PLUS YEARS in “Giving Away The Farm”.
Welcome to my Independent World of UNDERWITING CONCERN, just take down that STATE FARM SIGN and be a true competitor within the INDEPENDENT agency system…
GOOD LUCK!
This is nothing new, State Farm agents have set up insependent shops under their families names for years and State Farm knows it. Up until now it has mainly been for the property coverage but I am sure the Auto will now fall in play as they attempt to flee from the once almighty good neighbor. State Farm will be around just in a different capacity, much smaller and thankfully with fewer agents. They were a bit top heavy with agents, but then with that contract why not. It will be interesting to see how it plays out from the agents side and the company.
JR,
Are you saying the corporate State Farm allows their “captives” to open independents through realatives, friends or other “indirect means”?
I just read a google search about a 30 plus year State Farm Agent in Galviston TX that had over 5000 State Farm Auto Policies transfered to other agents, for some mysterious reason, then… POOF, he is immediately an Independent and trying to compete to get those State Farm clients back, via his “new” independent. Sounds to me like he HAD the independent “on the side” and State Farm “canned him” and transfered his entire book to the loyal State Farm agents.
If coporate State Farm allowed thier “captives” to open independents, why wouldn’t EVERY STATE FARM AGENT want an indepdent to steer business too? The commissions are HIGHER and the underwriting can be easier for AUTO, LIFE, and of course PROPERTY, especially in costal areas.
I find it hard to believe that corporate State Farm is ok with its “captives” operating independents, but… apparatenly that is happing “en masse”. Unless corporate is just biding its time, to see who is loyal, then BAM, breach of contract and all of the State Farm “captive’s” polices are transfered.
Of course, if corporate State Farm is now embracing the indepdent agecy side… I would like to rent a STATE FARM SIGN for my independent shop, since corpoate SF may no longer care about “steering” or it’s own good name or client base anymore.
Give me a State Farm Sign Too!
I can not comment on the contractual relationship or what the contract says that family members can do (unenforcable in my opinion) but I can tell you that several large independent agencies in my town are owned by the wives of several large and well established State Farm agents in the same town. and it has been this way for more than 10 years. If all the independents knew it, I can help but believe that SF knew who it was. But if an agent / employee is dumb enough to sign a contract that dictates what his wife or kids can do for a living, that is their problem. I am not a SF agent but have several friends that are, and trust me in Florida, many have drank the cool aid, but just as many are looking to transfer to other states or they have family that is suddenly in business here.
JR,
WOW! Your local, LARGE State Farm agents have 10 YEAR HISTORY of “steering” business to their, indirectly owned Independent Agencies.
How does corporate State Farm know if these “captive” State Farm Agent’s aren’t getting more COMMISSION on FLOOD, AUTO & LIFE via their independents? I guess the answere is… corporate SF doesn’t know, and apparently doesn’t care.
SO… If I were a State Farm Agent, ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY, I would CERTAINLY WANT AN INDEPENDENT “ON THE SIDE”!
Sate Farm agent’s that don’t have their independent agencies “on ths side” yet…should contact thier AFO’s and demand approval to start an independent on the side and confirm that it is in no way a conflict of thier contract as, apparently, many other State Farm agents are doing the same thing. A statement of confrirmation from Boomington should also be obtained, clerifying, that corporate State Farm allows independent agencies “on the side”.
But why not just skip the BS and allow DIRECT OWNERSHIP of the independent by the “captive” State Farm Agent? What’s the difference? Does corporate State Farm “pick and choose” which agent’s they allow/look the other way, when it comes to having an independent “on the side”.
I say, LET EVERY STATE FARM AGENT IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY HAVE AN INDEPENDENT AGENCY!
Then, let me RENT a STATE FARM SIGN so I can place it on the storefront of my independent. No, I don’t want to sell State Farm.. too expensive and hard to place, I just want to use the SIGN… In the same manner as ALL OF YOUR EXISTING STATE FARM AGENTS are doing, with independents “on the side”.
I’ll pay $1000/month to start!
These independent agencies owned by the SF families have not been writting business that was eligible for SF. They were not targeting the auto that SF is very competetive on, but they were placing the lines of business that SF does not write such as homeowners, dwelling fire, and some commercial lines. It was not a problem for SF corporate since they were still getting what they wanted. Do not try to read into this for your benefit. I do not believe that this was a threat to SF in the past but it may be in the future. I’m not a betting man but I would bet that SF does not allow agents to become independent and I hope for the sake of contract law that they do not. Just think of the agents that plan on staying with them that will acquire many clients from the agents that do jump ship. And lets not forget that the contract allows for NO ownership and has an anti piracy clause. You better believe SF will go after violators, but not so sure how they can prosecute the spouse or child that happens to have an ind agency. Just remember the client will not tolerate much of it either way and they will most likely be pissed off at the SF agent even if he becomes an IND. they are just as likely to go find another IND agent down the road. seems like that has been the trend so far. Final thought, your not likely to get that State Farm sign to hang out front and other than the old good will that the name had why would you want it today?