This is one of those capital build-up incentive companies. From what I understand they’ve been paying back the loan. I can’t speak to the $7 million dollar loss that got misplaced in accounting. I also don’t trust FLOIR as far as I can throw the whole department.
I’d like to see Olympus’ take on things and compare it with FLOIR’s take on things. The truth probably lies somewhere in between.
It does have some irony to it doesn’t it? It’s also pretty ironic that McCarty wants a closer look into MGA/carrier relationships and he picks on a company that cedes 34% to their MGA. I’m not taking a stand one way or the other with this one, but doesn’t one wonder?
Not too many carriers writing anymore. Sunshine State closed down the county, Olympus has closed a ton of zips, Sawgrass is new and they’re already pulling back… Situation is getting a lot worse instead of better. Thank God for auto.
It’s the fact that Olympus has been so conservative that I’m not taking sides and blasting the company. They’re not out trying to write as much business as they can but instead trying to get quality business and not be over exposed.
Sawgrass is a little new for my taste, but the Mutual business model hasn’t been tried in Florida for a while. I’m very interested to watch and see how it goes for them.
Re: Sawgrass…so far I’d say it’s not too good Mr. Solvent. Already closing zips. Going to 1995 and newer with 3% hurricane deductibles. $2500 or greater AOP deductibles.
They started out giving default wind mitigation credits (clips!) on all homes. That’s coming back to bite them now.
I thought Olympus was very aggressive. Rates on newer homes (especially Manatee and Sarasota) were way too low. Plus they allowed rating as Masonry Veneer if framed second story was stucco finish. I don’t believe they ever did geo-coding for sinkholes either.
I’m on the other side of the state and always saw Olympus’ approach as conservative. They stated by accepting just about anything (as all carriers do) and then they backed off on zip codes and then entire counties. Stucco/Frame may not be as strong as Stucco/Block, but they’re certainly not the only company that rates that way. The fact that they’ve already paid the state back their surplus note further leads me to believe there is more to this story.
As far as the others go, I’m extremely conservative in my carrier selection.
Did I understand the article to point out that the commission paid is 34%??
All right everybody who gets over 30% commission please raise your hands…even if including some of the MGA fees???
I too represent Olympus, and they will make an exception for anything! Their rules may be conservative, but they are not going by there own rules. They have written homes with prior claims very loosely, accepting homes that I would be hesitant to even write with Citizens, and even making exceptions on dog breeds. They have worried me for a little while now. As for Sawgrass, I am very hesitant when writing with them, and always offer another quote with an AM Best rated carrier along side them so the customer can choose what is best for them. About 50% of the time they choose the “stronger” company.
Agent,
Which AM Best rated carriers are you offering? I always offer ASI if possible but that’s becoming increasingly impossible. As for GeoVera et. al., I believe they exclude sinkhole coverage with no buyback option.
That could be a big E&O exposure for your firm. Especially with Morgan & Morgan railing against agents in their radio ads.
We wrote some business with Sawgrass in the last few months. I believe we’ll be regretting that in a year or so when we end up rewriting everything.
I’m almost to the point of quoting nothing but Tower Hill and ASI. If they don’t fit into those markets, they can go elsewhere.
We wrote a ton of business with Olympus in the last couple of years. If they go kablooey, we’ll be in rewrite hell.
The biggest thing you should look at when evaluating a carrier is surplus to premium written. With reinsurance here in Florida that metric is a bit off, but 1:3 is a good number.
Other things are reinsurance treaties. That’s something you’ll need to spend a lot of time learning as reinsurance is a nasty animal. Also, how much are they participating in the FHCF for reinsurance…anything beyond the mandatory layer and I cringe.
I don’t worry so much about dog breeds. They have the animal liability exclusion there. If they make breed exceptions AND let you add back animal liability I’d start to worry.
If you’ve got homes and situations that you’d be hesitant to write Citizens, why would you bother to write the business? Is your loss ratio not important to you?
The OIR approved the MGA contract that OIR now complains about. When Olympus ‘lost $14 MM in surplus’, it was because it paid back $14MM of surplus notes and needed OIR approval to do so. As for the reinsurance issue, Olmpus will have a different program in 2010 than it did in 2009 and the change in surplus position will be factored in.
Hillsborough Agent, I am not in the same boat as you are, yet as I am in Polk County, but we offer Bankers, and Florida Family predominately. Tower Hill as well. Morgan and Morgan and lawyers similar to them are partially why so many consumers are so upset with the insurance industry. I think Geovera is excess and surplus correct?
Mr. Solvent, My loss ratio is very important. What I neglected to say was I am not the agent who wrote the business. However, I do know that agent very well and I honestly don’t know how he looks at his loss ratio. By the way they may have the animal liability exclusion, but when a 3 year old child gets mauled by a Rottweiler the lawyers are going to request a copy of the policy very quickly and then will ask for your E & O very quickly, and I’m sure the customer will have forgotten that you disclosed to them the fact that animal liability is excluded. My whole point was basically that they make a lot of exceptios, don’t read into it so much.
It is my understanding the OIR approved the commission and underwriting expenses to the MGA not to exceed 29%. Olympus was paying the MGA 34%. I may be wrong, but I believe that is the problem.
If the company was paying commission a third party a commission in excess of a contracted percentage, its independent auditors should have noted that well before OIR gets involved. My hunch is that this will be resolved prior to month end April 2010.
T UW is either in another state or WAY up north in Florida. I won’t disclose what any company pays, but 13 – 17% is unheard of in property insurance. Agent is much closer for most folks.
James Island — Cypress makes good returns for whom??? This is a 12 year old company that has only bolstered surplus in the last two years. Where did all those returns go for the past 10 years? Maybe the MGA and its’ owners?
James Island — Cypress makes good returns for whom??? This is a 12 year old company that has only bolstered surplus in the last two years. Where did all those returns go for the past 10 years? Maybe the MGA and its’ owners?
James Island — Cypress makes good returns for whom??? This is a 12 year old company that has only bolstered surplus in the last two years. Where did all those returns go for the past 10 years? Maybe the MGA and its’ owners?
Good point. Florida is higher than Texas, but not by much. If I was an agent, I would give a few points to avoid rewrites when companies go bust. To give you a comparison http://www.iii.org/media/facts/statsbyissue/homeowners/
This study was before Ike – rates are hardening now. Think about it… we have a $5.6B HO market. I could use some more good agents and Floridians know how to sell property.
I’m pretty sure most agents get between 10-12 not 13-17. Depending on region of course.
This is one of those capital build-up incentive companies. From what I understand they’ve been paying back the loan. I can’t speak to the $7 million dollar loss that got misplaced in accounting. I also don’t trust FLOIR as far as I can throw the whole department.
I’d like to see Olympus’ take on things and compare it with FLOIR’s take on things. The truth probably lies somewhere in between.
It’s funny to me that this blurb is preceded immediately by McCarthy’s “nothing to see here, move along!” statement.
It does have some irony to it doesn’t it? It’s also pretty ironic that McCarty wants a closer look into MGA/carrier relationships and he picks on a company that cedes 34% to their MGA. I’m not taking a stand one way or the other with this one, but doesn’t one wonder?
Not too many carriers writing anymore. Sunshine State closed down the county, Olympus has closed a ton of zips, Sawgrass is new and they’re already pulling back… Situation is getting a lot worse instead of better. Thank God for auto.
It’s the fact that Olympus has been so conservative that I’m not taking sides and blasting the company. They’re not out trying to write as much business as they can but instead trying to get quality business and not be over exposed.
Sawgrass is a little new for my taste, but the Mutual business model hasn’t been tried in Florida for a while. I’m very interested to watch and see how it goes for them.
Re: Sawgrass…so far I’d say it’s not too good Mr. Solvent. Already closing zips. Going to 1995 and newer with 3% hurricane deductibles. $2500 or greater AOP deductibles.
They started out giving default wind mitigation credits (clips!) on all homes. That’s coming back to bite them now.
I thought Olympus was very aggressive. Rates on newer homes (especially Manatee and Sarasota) were way too low. Plus they allowed rating as Masonry Veneer if framed second story was stucco finish. I don’t believe they ever did geo-coding for sinkholes either.
I’m on the other side of the state and always saw Olympus’ approach as conservative. They stated by accepting just about anything (as all carriers do) and then they backed off on zip codes and then entire counties. Stucco/Frame may not be as strong as Stucco/Block, but they’re certainly not the only company that rates that way. The fact that they’ve already paid the state back their surplus note further leads me to believe there is more to this story.
As far as the others go, I’m extremely conservative in my carrier selection.
What are the primary financial metrics you look to when selecting which companies to contract with?
Did I understand the article to point out that the commission paid is 34%??
All right everybody who gets over 30% commission please raise your hands…even if including some of the MGA fees???
I too represent Olympus, and they will make an exception for anything! Their rules may be conservative, but they are not going by there own rules. They have written homes with prior claims very loosely, accepting homes that I would be hesitant to even write with Citizens, and even making exceptions on dog breeds. They have worried me for a little while now. As for Sawgrass, I am very hesitant when writing with them, and always offer another quote with an AM Best rated carrier along side them so the customer can choose what is best for them. About 50% of the time they choose the “stronger” company.
Agent,
Which AM Best rated carriers are you offering? I always offer ASI if possible but that’s becoming increasingly impossible. As for GeoVera et. al., I believe they exclude sinkhole coverage with no buyback option.
That could be a big E&O exposure for your firm. Especially with Morgan & Morgan railing against agents in their radio ads.
We wrote some business with Sawgrass in the last few months. I believe we’ll be regretting that in a year or so when we end up rewriting everything.
I’m almost to the point of quoting nothing but Tower Hill and ASI. If they don’t fit into those markets, they can go elsewhere.
We wrote a ton of business with Olympus in the last couple of years. If they go kablooey, we’ll be in rewrite hell.
The biggest thing you should look at when evaluating a carrier is surplus to premium written. With reinsurance here in Florida that metric is a bit off, but 1:3 is a good number.
Other things are reinsurance treaties. That’s something you’ll need to spend a lot of time learning as reinsurance is a nasty animal. Also, how much are they participating in the FHCF for reinsurance…anything beyond the mandatory layer and I cringe.
I don’t worry so much about dog breeds. They have the animal liability exclusion there. If they make breed exceptions AND let you add back animal liability I’d start to worry.
If you’ve got homes and situations that you’d be hesitant to write Citizens, why would you bother to write the business? Is your loss ratio not important to you?
The OIR approved the MGA contract that OIR now complains about. When Olympus ‘lost $14 MM in surplus’, it was because it paid back $14MM of surplus notes and needed OIR approval to do so. As for the reinsurance issue, Olmpus will have a different program in 2010 than it did in 2009 and the change in surplus position will be factored in.
This seems like a non-issue!
I think the repayment of the surplus note is really the missing piece of the puzzle here. Is the OIR upset that they paid it off early?
Hillsborough Agent, I am not in the same boat as you are, yet as I am in Polk County, but we offer Bankers, and Florida Family predominately. Tower Hill as well. Morgan and Morgan and lawyers similar to them are partially why so many consumers are so upset with the insurance industry. I think Geovera is excess and surplus correct?
Mr. Solvent, My loss ratio is very important. What I neglected to say was I am not the agent who wrote the business. However, I do know that agent very well and I honestly don’t know how he looks at his loss ratio. By the way they may have the animal liability exclusion, but when a 3 year old child gets mauled by a Rottweiler the lawyers are going to request a copy of the policy very quickly and then will ask for your E & O very quickly, and I’m sure the customer will have forgotten that you disclosed to them the fact that animal liability is excluded. My whole point was basically that they make a lot of exceptios, don’t read into it so much.
Mr. Solvent, My apologies I used your name by accident. ;)
It is my understanding the OIR approved the commission and underwriting expenses to the MGA not to exceed 29%. Olympus was paying the MGA 34%. I may be wrong, but I believe that is the problem.
Agent,
Yes, Geovera is E&S. Unfortunately, Bankers won’t write in Hillsborough although we do quite a bit of commercial with them.
Polk County is next on the sinkhole hit parade. Smoke em while you got em, I guess.
Hillsborough agent, We are already getting hit with the sinkholes here. Adjusters have been going door to door and the ads are rolling in.
If the company was paying commission a third party a commission in excess of a contracted percentage, its independent auditors should have noted that well before OIR gets involved. My hunch is that this will be resolved prior to month end April 2010.
Because I wonder how in the world is running all the ponzi
Cypress has consistently made good returns for many years and is selective in where it writes. They seem very strong…..
The MGA agreement was approved at 22-plus, funneling money away from the risk bearing entity… I’m sure the retail agent is between 13-17.
T UW is either in another state or WAY up north in Florida. I won’t disclose what any company pays, but 13 – 17% is unheard of in property insurance. Agent is much closer for most folks.
James Island — Cypress makes good returns for whom??? This is a 12 year old company that has only bolstered surplus in the last two years. Where did all those returns go for the past 10 years? Maybe the MGA and its’ owners?
James Island — Cypress makes good returns for whom??? This is a 12 year old company that has only bolstered surplus in the last two years. Where did all those returns go for the past 10 years? Maybe the MGA and its’ owners?
James Island — Cypress makes good returns for whom??? This is a 12 year old company that has only bolstered surplus in the last two years. Where did all those returns go for the past 10 years? Maybe the MGA and its’ owners?
Yeah, I’m in Texas. MGA Underwriter. You guys should move here, I’d pay you more.
Pay us more on higher premiums or lower premiums? I believe Florida has some of the highest premiums in the Nation.
Good point. Florida is higher than Texas, but not by much. If I was an agent, I would give a few points to avoid rewrites when companies go bust. To give you a comparison http://www.iii.org/media/facts/statsbyissue/homeowners/
This study was before Ike – rates are hardening now. Think about it… we have a $5.6B HO market. I could use some more good agents and Floridians know how to sell property.