Wow…and to think I voted for this guy with the certainty that he wasn’t a progressive, didn’t want to mandate away people’s freedoms (if I don’t want to go to the ER that’s not any government official’s business is it?).
I get the PIP fraud element but there are other ways to handle that-get rid of PIP but leave a “no fault” component in the law for one thing
The whole concept of this bill seems to center around the fact that hospitals can/will provide care without conducting unnecessary tests or creating a treatment plan that doesn’t exploit the system. I would probably agree that an emergency room doesn’t have the time or resources to “script a fraud plan” but I thought emergency fees were expensive. Additionally, my experience with emergency room doctors shows that they often, after initial treatment, recommend that you follow-up with your physician. How does the bill address this issue. If it doesn’t, aren’t we back to the PIP fraud problem?
Emergency care IS expensive, but not as expensive as getting lawyers and “clinics” involved in minor accidents. That’s where a lot of the PIP fraud comes into play. I’d rather see them use a no fault med pay as an optional coverage as opposed to mandatory PIP.
I agree with you. I dont see why it is so difficult for them to eliminate PIP altogether. It’s a no brainer. This will not stop the attorneys from getting involved. They chase people down in the hospital, get them to sign on as clients and then go after the PIP coverage before the hospital even has time to file a claim with the insurance carrier. Medical payments is where its at. Also if that coverage is not enough then they can fall back onto their health insurance which will monitor every claim.
When the term “emergency room” comes up in the healthcare debate, it’s almost always because statists are whining that without government-controlled insurance, we poor boobs will run to the ER for routine care, causing the bill to be much higher than it should be. So how does Florida’s proposed assault on liberty and the doctor-patient relationship help?
I suppose Rick Scott would say, like George W. Bush did, that he’s “a free-market kind of guy.” Then why on earth would he support this stinkeroo of a bill? If the problem is fraud in a government mandate like PIP (fraud in a government program? I’m shocked!), shouldn’t a Republican advocate a real market solution, like getting the state to butt out of the insurance business?
Oh, wait a minute. “Scott helped start Columbia Hospital Corp., which merged with another company to become the world’s largest health care company.” Now I see.
ELIMINATE PIP. What is so difficult?! Legitimate medical claims get paid. I’ve been an agent for 20 years and I have rarely if ever seen a legitimate claim not be paid. But I’ve seen plenty of attorneys get their cut of the PIP money before the medical provider even got a dime. Every auto insurance carrier that I know of sells medical payments, it amazes me that the politians act like they dont know this. This is the dumbest thing I have heard of requiring people to go to emergency rooms, this will not solve anything. Rick, you and the rest of your boys there need to get a clue.
If you are an agent you would know that PIP fraud is rampant in Florida. I’m in SIU and I could tell you this bill makes a lot of sense. If you are seriously injured then you should go to an ER and see a real Doctor and not a Chiro who works with attorney’s. What is so hard about that? What’s currently happening now is the alleged patients are being paid by these medical providers. It makes no sense for an insurance carrier to pay $10,000.00 for massage therapy. These massage therapists are not even licensed physical therapists but claim to do physical therapy, neuromuscular activities, (the patients do not even suffer any brain injury for them to receive this type of therapy which should be performed by Neurologists), I could go on here but I hope you understand. These so called clinics that are affiliated with all the 1-800 or 411 do not care about treatments of their patients. I’ve had several testimony during EUO where the insured/patients are extremely upset with the service they receive and are only going to that specific clinic because their attorney tells them to.
you guys are missing the point! the idea is reduce fraud — many of these accidents happen and they go to medical clinics… many of these so-called clinics are not valid… by making necessary to go to emergency room, that validates more that an injury is involved… is got nothing to do w/wrong tests being done, its a matter of certified clinics and proper treatments and pay accordingly… too many fraud cases otherwise, most folks are not hurt and don’t require any medical treatment… this will truly help… i like that fact some of you state, let’s remove PIP, make it mandatory that you carry bi, and that the insurance companies can validate proper medical…
Any time government intervenes in the market, fraud is inevitable. Some clinics are not valid? Well, government has claimed authority over them, therefore this is a failure of government too. Unlike private companies that must make a profit or else, government will never go out of business when it fails to prevent fraud (or when it fails to do anything it claims to do, for that matter). Add the cronyism that is so clearly evident in this story and – voila! – a scam guaranteed to make Florida residents poorer.
“The [PIP] legislation provided that a driver’s insurance company pay up to $10,000 to cover medical bills and lost wages after an accident — no matter who is at fault. All Florida drivers are required to carry no-fault insurance.”
So insurance companies are forced to hang a hunk of red meat out there; then everybody’s surprised when the cats go after it. Yes, the crime associated with this is the government’s fault, because without its do-gooder interference it wouldn’t be happening. Lesson: Keep the demagogue politicians out of the insurance business.
I agree that PIP is a scam. Get rid of it. But it was the politicians that passed this in the first place. Government is just enforcing what politicians have forced on us. We have a problem with politicians.
January 13, 2012 at 2:46 pm
FLagent/insured says:
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I’m not missing the point. If they eliminated PIP altogether they wouldnt have to worry about fraud at all.
Agree. While we’ve discussed the fraud aspects in theses posts, which is driving the majority of the excess costs, we haven’t really discussed that over the past 30 years PIP has been bent & stretched to cover “non collision” injuries. I’ve had companies pay gun shot wounds, suicide and ant bites. It all adds up.
Ok let’s remove the right to choose your health care from the equation because we’re too scared of the lawyers and the lobbyists to do the right thing which is get rid of the antiquated coverage that is PIP. If this goes into effect, I can assure you the lawsuits challenging it will be right on it’s heels.
WHY does PIP have to be mandatory? What if they just make it an option, and then people who have health insurance don’t have to carry it. PIP is not in all states, so why can’t they just model an insurance reform after a state who has a system in place that works. This is SO freaking ridiculous. There is NO way I’d want to go to the ER because my neck hurts. I’d be sitting there for 12 hours before being seen. Rick Scott is a giant TOOL.
PIP does have several issues with it, but at this time it would make no sense in getting rid of it all together. If PIP were to disapear and you were involved in an accident with an uninsured person you may have no way of paying your medical bills. Florida does not require a driver to carry bodily injury liability coverage. Get rid of PIP and have no mandatory BI coverage and the tax payers will lose out far worse.
You can’t get rid of PIP without making BI mandatory that’s a given. I’ve said this before, we should do away with PIP, make mandatory limits 15/30/25 w/5k med pay and optional UMBI. Also include mandatory UMPD with a minimum 250 deductible. After you do this, watch the policy and fraud rates plummet like a rock.
This is a horrible idea. Some people may feel some pain and they may opt ot go home and see if they can handle the soreness for a few days. Home therapy and tylenol will often be the only treatment they need. However, at times, problems get worse over the following week, or the problems fail to subside, and they ten sek medical treatment.
To force everyone into the emergency room to protect their coverage interests is just plain crazy. http://www.wolfandpravato.com
FAIL
Wow…and to think I voted for this guy with the certainty that he wasn’t a progressive, didn’t want to mandate away people’s freedoms (if I don’t want to go to the ER that’s not any government official’s business is it?).
I get the PIP fraud element but there are other ways to handle that-get rid of PIP but leave a “no fault” component in the law for one thing
The whole concept of this bill seems to center around the fact that hospitals can/will provide care without conducting unnecessary tests or creating a treatment plan that doesn’t exploit the system. I would probably agree that an emergency room doesn’t have the time or resources to “script a fraud plan” but I thought emergency fees were expensive. Additionally, my experience with emergency room doctors shows that they often, after initial treatment, recommend that you follow-up with your physician. How does the bill address this issue. If it doesn’t, aren’t we back to the PIP fraud problem?
Emergency care IS expensive, but not as expensive as getting lawyers and “clinics” involved in minor accidents. That’s where a lot of the PIP fraud comes into play. I’d rather see them use a no fault med pay as an optional coverage as opposed to mandatory PIP.
I agree with you. I dont see why it is so difficult for them to eliminate PIP altogether. It’s a no brainer. This will not stop the attorneys from getting involved. They chase people down in the hospital, get them to sign on as clients and then go after the PIP coverage before the hospital even has time to file a claim with the insurance carrier. Medical payments is where its at. Also if that coverage is not enough then they can fall back onto their health insurance which will monitor every claim.
When the term “emergency room” comes up in the healthcare debate, it’s almost always because statists are whining that without government-controlled insurance, we poor boobs will run to the ER for routine care, causing the bill to be much higher than it should be. So how does Florida’s proposed assault on liberty and the doctor-patient relationship help?
I suppose Rick Scott would say, like George W. Bush did, that he’s “a free-market kind of guy.” Then why on earth would he support this stinkeroo of a bill? If the problem is fraud in a government mandate like PIP (fraud in a government program? I’m shocked!), shouldn’t a Republican advocate a real market solution, like getting the state to butt out of the insurance business?
Oh, wait a minute. “Scott helped start Columbia Hospital Corp., which merged with another company to become the world’s largest health care company.” Now I see.
ELIMINATE PIP. What is so difficult?! Legitimate medical claims get paid. I’ve been an agent for 20 years and I have rarely if ever seen a legitimate claim not be paid. But I’ve seen plenty of attorneys get their cut of the PIP money before the medical provider even got a dime. Every auto insurance carrier that I know of sells medical payments, it amazes me that the politians act like they dont know this. This is the dumbest thing I have heard of requiring people to go to emergency rooms, this will not solve anything. Rick, you and the rest of your boys there need to get a clue.
If you are an agent you would know that PIP fraud is rampant in Florida. I’m in SIU and I could tell you this bill makes a lot of sense. If you are seriously injured then you should go to an ER and see a real Doctor and not a Chiro who works with attorney’s. What is so hard about that? What’s currently happening now is the alleged patients are being paid by these medical providers. It makes no sense for an insurance carrier to pay $10,000.00 for massage therapy. These massage therapists are not even licensed physical therapists but claim to do physical therapy, neuromuscular activities, (the patients do not even suffer any brain injury for them to receive this type of therapy which should be performed by Neurologists), I could go on here but I hope you understand. These so called clinics that are affiliated with all the 1-800 or 411 do not care about treatments of their patients. I’ve had several testimony during EUO where the insured/patients are extremely upset with the service they receive and are only going to that specific clinic because their attorney tells them to.
you guys are missing the point! the idea is reduce fraud — many of these accidents happen and they go to medical clinics… many of these so-called clinics are not valid… by making necessary to go to emergency room, that validates more that an injury is involved… is got nothing to do w/wrong tests being done, its a matter of certified clinics and proper treatments and pay accordingly… too many fraud cases otherwise, most folks are not hurt and don’t require any medical treatment… this will truly help… i like that fact some of you state, let’s remove PIP, make it mandatory that you carry bi, and that the insurance companies can validate proper medical…
Any time government intervenes in the market, fraud is inevitable. Some clinics are not valid? Well, government has claimed authority over them, therefore this is a failure of government too. Unlike private companies that must make a profit or else, government will never go out of business when it fails to prevent fraud (or when it fails to do anything it claims to do, for that matter). Add the cronyism that is so clearly evident in this story and – voila! – a scam guaranteed to make Florida residents poorer.
So crime is government’s fault because it hasn’t prevented it? And the illegal clinics are government’s fault?
“The [PIP] legislation provided that a driver’s insurance company pay up to $10,000 to cover medical bills and lost wages after an accident — no matter who is at fault. All Florida drivers are required to carry no-fault insurance.”
So insurance companies are forced to hang a hunk of red meat out there; then everybody’s surprised when the cats go after it. Yes, the crime associated with this is the government’s fault, because without its do-gooder interference it wouldn’t be happening. Lesson: Keep the demagogue politicians out of the insurance business.
I agree that PIP is a scam. Get rid of it. But it was the politicians that passed this in the first place. Government is just enforcing what politicians have forced on us. We have a problem with politicians.
I’m not missing the point. If they eliminated PIP altogether they wouldnt have to worry about fraud at all.
Agree. While we’ve discussed the fraud aspects in theses posts, which is driving the majority of the excess costs, we haven’t really discussed that over the past 30 years PIP has been bent & stretched to cover “non collision” injuries. I’ve had companies pay gun shot wounds, suicide and ant bites. It all adds up.
Ok let’s remove the right to choose your health care from the equation because we’re too scared of the lawyers and the lobbyists to do the right thing which is get rid of the antiquated coverage that is PIP. If this goes into effect, I can assure you the lawsuits challenging it will be right on it’s heels.
How about the novel idea of putting the people who are committing fraud in jail?
Because that is too difficult to police. Remove the mandated coverage, remove the problem its as simple as that.
WHY does PIP have to be mandatory? What if they just make it an option, and then people who have health insurance don’t have to carry it. PIP is not in all states, so why can’t they just model an insurance reform after a state who has a system in place that works. This is SO freaking ridiculous. There is NO way I’d want to go to the ER because my neck hurts. I’d be sitting there for 12 hours before being seen. Rick Scott is a giant TOOL.
PIP does have several issues with it, but at this time it would make no sense in getting rid of it all together. If PIP were to disapear and you were involved in an accident with an uninsured person you may have no way of paying your medical bills. Florida does not require a driver to carry bodily injury liability coverage. Get rid of PIP and have no mandatory BI coverage and the tax payers will lose out far worse.
You can’t get rid of PIP without making BI mandatory that’s a given. I’ve said this before, we should do away with PIP, make mandatory limits 15/30/25 w/5k med pay and optional UMBI. Also include mandatory UMPD with a minimum 250 deductible. After you do this, watch the policy and fraud rates plummet like a rock.
This is a horrible idea. Some people may feel some pain and they may opt ot go home and see if they can handle the soreness for a few days. Home therapy and tylenol will often be the only treatment they need. However, at times, problems get worse over the following week, or the problems fail to subside, and they ten sek medical treatment.
To force everyone into the emergency room to protect their coverage interests is just plain crazy. http://www.wolfandpravato.com