In the early/mid 1990’s, we had the campaign against cappers, and medical clinics that were owned by lawyers.
It took them a few years to find the loopholes, and they’ve done a good job by stretching out treatments, delaying trials, requesting unnecessary exams and treatment.
On rare occasion is the use of a w/c attorney needed (only when you have a ditz claims adjuster that doesn’t understand the claim – ZENITH…are you listening?).
Let the rest of them earn a living the old fashioned way (hint…it’s a four letter word called WORK).
This article is misleading and intended to incite anger and name-calling.
The truth is, is if the insurance adjustor would accept cases in a timely basis, pay benefits on time, and approve proper medical care, there would be much less of a need for an attorney to get involved.
And, if the insurance industry had any sense at all, they would reduce rates further because the politicians in Sacramento are watching very closely. They agreed to the sweeping changes based on the insurance industries’ promises to pass savings along to employers. With the latest profits posted by insurance companies, and no meaningful reduction of rates, they have only themselves to blame if Sacramento amends SB 899.
Rather than shooting arrows at attorneys, the Insurance Journal should post an honest assessment of this situation. Everyone knows the game you are playing…you are not that clever.
Workers Compensation Attorney Fees are highly regulated Gibson fails to mention. Fees are capped at 15% where personal injury fees range from 33 to 50%. Insurance and employer abuses are rampant and insurance rates are not regulated and the only voice the injured workers have are applicant attorneys. Gibson wants to silence that voice to continue gouging employers with outrageous premiums and widfall profits for insurance companies
Unfortunately there are unethical people in all professions and businesses, including attorney and insurance companies and their personnel. It used to be that insurance companies routinely issued drafts (not checks) to injured workers, using banks on the other coast. The injured, some of whom did not have bank accounts, were often unable to obtain their much needed cash. It took a friend of mine, an applicant’s attorney, to sue the companies, and obtain a substantial judgment, to correct that abuse. He first went to the company’s office asking them to cash the draft, which they were unable or unwilling to do. Now all claims are paid by check. Without the applicant’s bar, the injured may be left to the “good wishes” of the adjusters, and we know what that means.
A big reason for higher premiums for any type of insurance is attorneys. If they care so much about people, let them take cases that are not on a contingency basis. When responsible for their own inflated costs, they show their true colors.
Worker Compensation is NOT a “gravy train” for lawyers. The average fee on a WC case is under $2,000 often for 20 to 30 hours of work. The overhead for the law business is very high, particularly considering the cost of legal malpractice, rent, salaries, computers, and all the other things needed to run a business. Most WC attorneys are sole practitioners or small firms of less than five attorneys, and the average compensation of an Applicant attorney, after payment of expenses, is less than $100,000 per year, and more likely, in the $50,000 to $75,000 range. WC law is a high overhead, labor intensive business. We do it because we want to help deserving injured workers and screw greedy insurance companies. We sure as hell don’t get rich.
Whoever wrote this article doesn’t know the first thing about workers’ comp. Applicant attorneys are not lining their pocket with 15% attorney fees and there is no gravy train. Applicant Attorney represents the injured workers because they need our representation. Their benefits are typically delayed, thety are denied medical ncare and they are often fired for having an injury. Now their benefits have been mutilated by the new laws. It is a horrible time for the workers’ of this state to have their benefits taken away so the insurance companies can line their pockets. In my world we do not take from the poor to give to the rich. I think the writer missed the point here. The greed is in the hands of the insurance companies. They reap the benefit here,not the employer. I suggest you be truthful about who is lining their pockets.
i sincerely hope that there are enough legislators with guts to stop this group from interfering with the rate reductions.
It is long past time that “caps” were put on the percentage of the settlement lawyers can take. Of course, we can’t get that done, but maybe, just maybe employers are mad enough to oust from office the
assemblymen and senators who would favor the attorneys.
BOY DO I FEEL SO BAD FOR THE APPLICANT ATTORNEY. THEY ARE ONE ON THE MAJOR COST DRIVERS IN THE COMP SYSTEM. BY THE WAY WORK COMP IS A NO FAULT SYSTEM. WHY DO WE NEED A LAWYER? BECAUSE SOMEONE WANT MORE THAN THEY ARE ENTITLED TOO. I HAVE HANDLE MANY CLAIMS IN 3O YEARS OF COMMERCIAL INS REPRESENTATION OF MY INSUREDS AND COMPANIES IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A CLAIM DENIED EVEN IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE. AND AS FOR BENEFITS BEING REDUCED THE PREVIOUS REFORM RAISED THE TEMP DISABLILITY FROM $356 TO OVER $800.
COME ON WHO IS KIDDING WHO. THE LAWYERS NEED TO LEAVE THE TROUGH.
I note, sir/madame, that you did not post your name on this comment. I am always suspicious of anonymous comments.
The truth is that attorneys do not drive the costs in work comp. We merely fight for our clients to get all the benefits to which they are entitled under the law. We get paid a small fee (15%) out of a small portion (permanent disability) of those benefits. Our fee does not increase the cost to the employer or insurance company. We do not recieve fees from the Temporary Disability rates you have quoted.
The reason we need a lawyer in a no-fault system is because claims adjusters like you don’t give the injured worker the benefits he/she needs in a timely manner.
The fact is that the insurance industry and employers have continued to lie about how the workers’ comp system works and what lawyers do in that system. It is the classic strategy: Identify a problem, Identify a group that is feared or hated, then blame the problem on that group. The best example of this statagy was a monster with the initials A.H. Check your history books around 1938-1945 and you will find him prominantly mentioned.
The new limits of 24 chiropractic visits per work related injury is going to drive treatment costs up not down. The patients which were being managed and stabilized with chiropractic will be forced to visit more expensive alternatives such as pain management doctors who charge $3-5k per facet block or epidural. Office visits are 2-3x’s more expensive than chiropractic visits. This will be a major failure once they see the costs go up rather than down as they expected. Chiropractic ranks at 10% of the overall cost in the Workers’ Comp budget. It isn’t chiropractors who are driving the costs up. In fact, study after study finds that chiropractic saves money by decreasing disability, lost work days, and treatment costs. It’s just like politicians to mislead people. Chiropractic has a history of being falsely accused and discriminated against despite the it’s growing popularity.
Brovo…. Thanks for the response. If your description of the situation is right-on then I feel a little bit better about the current quagmyure. The Legal Community may need to hook up woth a P.R. firm to attend to the greater issue burning ===== An overall Lack of trust
We have now been fully informed, in his opinion, by Mr. Blank. (That) All you Worker’s compensation insurance carriers doing business in the state of California are on the up & up. It’s not that I don’t feel that the applicants attorney’s are either.
Provoked by his comment of “IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A CLAIM DENIED EVEN IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE” Liar, Liar, pants on fire. Let me take you back to the IJ west edition, May 17, 2004. Page 8, continued on Page 70. In Oregon the R.O.D. (rate of denial) annually, is about 7,000 per/yr, 4% higher than the 59% market share & 25% of the 7,000 appeal their denied claims. Can’t see this reason either to be a need of applicant attorney’s now can we? Better not even think of SAIF being able to insure employees that work outside the state of Oregon. “No Thanks” slim fast would work good enough here. Best to see if there any comparison’s studies to SCIF or the other insurance carriers doing business in the State of California with what SAIF practices.
Previous emails on this topic have made it clear that the reason for W.C. premiums (and claims) being outrageous (double digit increases compounded annually year after) is NOT the fault of: (1) attorneys; (2) adjusters; (3) chiropractors; (4) insurers; (5) poor, down-trodden workers.
Obviously, there is no Workers’ Compensation crisis; there never was one. It was all a myth.
I have a better solution. Let’s just make Workers Compensation VOLUNTARY and go back to the good old days. Employees can sue–but they have to prove at least ordinary negligence.
OR
Better yet, let’s just ship all the jobs to the Republic of China and move all the executive offices to Idaho; then the attorneys, adjusters, chiropractors, laid-off employees and others won’t have anything to complain about.
I have been in the Workers’ Compensation business for over 30 years. This legislation is a shame.
The current rates will come down not because of this legislation but because the insurers are collecting excess premiums to pay for the price war they developed as a result of open rating.
Get real Californians, you are being had by the polititions and the insurance companies.
HEY SAM GET REAL, THE ONLY CARRIER LEFT MAY BE MAKING MONEY, BUT HEY OPEN RATING ONLY COST US 12 WORK COMP CARRIERS LEAVING THE STATE BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T HOLD THEIR MARKET SHARE AND WENT BROKE.AND BY THE WAY CARRIERS CUT THEIR RATES BY 50% IN 1995 EVERYBODY FORGOT THAT THE RATES NOW ARE JUST COMING BACK TO PRE 95 LEVELS WITH MUCH MORE EMPLOYEE BENEFITS NOW(DESERVEDLY)
As an insurance broker, I often review loss
runs with clients and in many cases it the same
story. The employee files a claim after they were
terminated or laid off and all of a sudden
they remember an injury that occurred (which
no one saw) and they get a hold of an atty.
Next thing you know, a $20,000 reserve is set up and
the client is screaming at you to get it off.
Or, there is a minor injury at work and the employee
should take it easy for a few days; however, he is able
to play soccer or move furniture with his buddy, meanwhile
medical bills keep piling up and he is working 2 other
jobs and collecting TD.
You have hit a good part of it on the head. Everyone wants a free lunch thanks to the erosion of ethics and morals of the last years; the “I am not responsible for anything and nothing is ever my fault” or “Poor pitiful me” thought processes running rampant today. This is further enhanced by attorneys who have and are taking advantage of it, which makes news, which brings two of the other 3 factions in to the overall problem. Last but not least, I have no doubt there are still some issues to be taken up with some carriers. However, with all of the regulation, complaint processes, and auditing that applies to insurance carriers, it is obviously not the biggest part of the problem. I challenge anyone who disagrees with that to work for an insurance company for one month to see the depth of the fraud and enhancement of injuries or other losses that is going on for all kinds of insurance, not just WC. Listen to TV and hear the advertisements by attorneys showing very healthy people bragging how they received tens of thousands of dollars as a settlement. Everyone wants that and if they get less, they feel they are victims. Doesn’t anyone know the definition of accident anymore? Regardless of what happened, someone has to pay and pay big. THAT IS WRONG!
I guess people are just scared to say it like it is and take action to put some type of regulation on the attorneys like has been put on carriers. How about public viewing of their billing practices and amounts they receive and make annually.
SPECIAL THANKS TO THOSE OF YOU THAT UNDERSTOOD WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET OVER.NOT SURE WHY THE NAME DIDN’T COME UP BEFORE. AND ANOTHER POINT, WHY IS DOCTOR SHOPPING NOW RESTRICTED IN THE NEW LEGISLATION. WHO CREATED DOCTOR SHOPPING ANYWAY. THE EMPLOYER?? THE CARRIER?? THE APPLICANT??? THE ATTORNEY. YES WINNER!!!
Prior reforms failed because of “…judicial decisions, legal challenges, unexpected consequences, regulatory mishaps” These were insurance sponsored reforms too. What makes you think you’re any smarter now. The system is gutted, shifting the burden from employers and insurers to group insurance, state programs MediCare and, of course taxpayers. Litigation and costs will skyrocket. Great job
I HAVE NOT HAD A CHANGE TO READ ALL THE CHANGES TO WORK COMP. BUT, I DO KNOW OF ONE CHANGE I COMPLETE OPPOSE. THE LIST OF DOCTORS IS CREATED BY THE INSURANCE CO. OR YOUR EMPLOYER. THIS IS TOTALLY INSANE AS IF THE ONLY DOCTORS YOU COULD GO TO WERE FROM LAWYERS. AS I FIGURED, WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THIS REFORM, TOTALLY FOR COMPANIES AND EMPLOYEES ARE GOING TO BE THE LOSERS.
WHEN I HAD TO FILE ON A PERM DISABILITY I NEVER GOT A LAWYER, WHY WOULD I NEED ONE? BUT WORK COMP. DENIED ME, STATING I DID NOT HAVE ASTHMA (CAUSED WORKING IN LUMBER MILL). SO I GOT A LAWYER AND IT COST ALOT MORE MONEY. WORK COMP. FIGURE I WOULDN’T FIGHT. I WON AND STILL SUFFER TODAY LOSSING 4 TO 8 WEEKS OF WORK A YEAR. WORK COMP. NEEDS A COMPLETE OVERHAUL, THIS WILL COST MONEY, BUT WILL BENEFIT EVERYONE.
Mr. Lynch,
I wonder if you can do a breakdown of what it costs business owners to provide WC Attorneys with your supposed annual income? I know from experience that it costs close to $100,000.00 to defend yourself against a wrongful claim, and thats when the case was thrown out.
Unfortunatly in your “Real World” you only see the potential for settlement that keeps you in office space and computer systems. In my Real World I see the potential for devastation that is present anytime an employee has an accident.
I suppose it’s too much to ask for attorneys to take the time to investigate the facts before filing suit. If it was turned around and the costs for unfounded claims were born by the attorneys then maybe you would only take cases that had merit rather than those against employers with the ABILITY TO PAY!
Using this screed to wrap dead fish would be an insult to the fish.
The fact of the matter is that there will be no signifincant savings because there is no competitive market. A competitive market means the consumer has a choice. Here, the insurance industry, especially after unregulated predatory pricing drove out most of the players, has a captive market. Employers have to buy – no choice at all. So, instead of dedicating themselves to fighting fraudlent claims, or fighting outrageous medical bills, the lazy and greedy insurers simply pay the bill and pass it on to the employer. What do they care as long as a profit is made?
If we had regulation, allowing a fair profit, then to maximize profit within those guidelines the insurers would have to fight, rather than pay, bad claims. I wsih they would. I would drive out the bad doctors and lawyers.
WELL JMA I GUESS YOU DON’T KNOW HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS. I AM AN INSURANCE BROKER AND ON MANY OCCASSIONS I HAVE ASK THE INSURER TO FIGHT. THE ISSUE IS THEY CAN’T WIN. WHEN THEY GO TO THE APPEALS BOARD, THE POOR INJURED WORKER WHO IS GETTING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY EVERY ONE, HAS HIS DOCTOR, HIS APPLICANTS ATTORNEY THERE,USUALLY THE BIG INSURANCE CO LOOSES THEIR FIGHT.AND BECAUSE THEY TRIED TO FIGHT AND LOST BECAUSE THE EMPLOYER DOESN’T HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE THAT THE PERSON WASN’T ACTUALLY HURT ON THE JOB, THEY ARE ALSO FINED AT THAT TIME FOR HOLDING BACK THE BENEFITS.UNFORTUNATELY THEY NEVER HARDLY EVER WIN. YOU DO THE MATH?
I think everyone that has never been an injured worker would have a different attitude it they were in that situation. My husband has been on Workers’ Comp for 2 and a half years; I would not wish this situation on my worst enemy! He has been to many different doctors, some of who have told him that nothing is wrong with him; my husband injured his knee at work. He had 2 Arthroscopic surgeries which resulted in him developing Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD) also known as Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS); this is one of the most excruciatingly painful diseased you could have. My husband will now have to walk with a cane and take pain medication for the rest of his life; unless, by some miracle, his RSD goes into submission for a couple of years, but it will come back anyway. He is severely limited by the things he can do; he can’t even wear pants because anything touching his knee is very painful. If the wind blows, he cries in agony. He is now depressed all of the time, not only from knowing he will never be the same man again, but also from all of these new Workers’ Comp laws that are taking affect. Why does everyone think that every single person on Workers’ Comp is a bad guy? That they are cheating the system? If you ask me, the system is cheating the real injured workers! This is a disgrace! Why should someone with such a debilitating disease be treated like a criminal? If people that are for all of these cuts on Workers’ Comp payments to injured workers could just come stay with us overnight, they would find out who is really hurting from all of this; and it is not the big companies that think they are paying too much! It is the workers, who cannot sleep at night because they are in too much pain; who will never be able to run along side their daughters or sons; who’s marriages are suffering because they have mood swings, depression, loss of concentration and sexual drive; who will never be able to go skiing again, or hiking or biking, or backpacking or hunting, just to mention a few! What kind of job will my husband be able to return to? No kind of job! Who would hire a man that has to change positions every 10 to 15 minuets? Who is on methadone? Who has to take naps sometimes 3 times a day because of his pain? Everyday he beats himself up, about how for the rest of his life he will never be the same as he was before he went to work that one awful day. How thinking that if he had just done one thing different that day his life would not be ruined now; he wouldn’t be worrying from one day to the next what kind of laws are going to be passed to cheat him out of the money he has a RIGHT to receive! Just put yourself in my husband’s place and I guarantee you that you will think differently about Workers’ Comp!
If all of the claims were as you describe, and there were not the bogus claims which most likely outnumber legitimate ones, AND if attorneys were held accountable for frivilous lawsuits and the fraud involved, we would not be reading these articles or posting and reading these comments. What about his going to school to learn a trade that he could do on a computer? Chances are it would help him take his mind off of his pain as well as get him back into the mainstream as a working member of society. I KNOW you get get help for the schooling, have you checked it out?
My husband is supposed to get voc. rehab to learn a new trade. However when he starts doing that, he will only be receiving $200 a week in pay, and he can’t do that until his doctor says he is permanent and stationary. I was a stay at home mother until my husband was hurt, then I had to go back to work when my daughter was 9 months old, because they weren’t paying my husband near what he was making when he was working. With the new laws, it sounds like he will get cheated even more than he is going to right now!
In the early/mid 1990’s, we had the campaign against cappers, and medical clinics that were owned by lawyers.
It took them a few years to find the loopholes, and they’ve done a good job by stretching out treatments, delaying trials, requesting unnecessary exams and treatment.
On rare occasion is the use of a w/c attorney needed (only when you have a ditz claims adjuster that doesn’t understand the claim – ZENITH…are you listening?).
Let the rest of them earn a living the old fashioned way (hint…it’s a four letter word called WORK).
This article is misleading and intended to incite anger and name-calling.
The truth is, is if the insurance adjustor would accept cases in a timely basis, pay benefits on time, and approve proper medical care, there would be much less of a need for an attorney to get involved.
And, if the insurance industry had any sense at all, they would reduce rates further because the politicians in Sacramento are watching very closely. They agreed to the sweeping changes based on the insurance industries’ promises to pass savings along to employers. With the latest profits posted by insurance companies, and no meaningful reduction of rates, they have only themselves to blame if Sacramento amends SB 899.
Rather than shooting arrows at attorneys, the Insurance Journal should post an honest assessment of this situation. Everyone knows the game you are playing…you are not that clever.
Workers Compensation Attorney Fees are highly regulated Gibson fails to mention. Fees are capped at 15% where personal injury fees range from 33 to 50%. Insurance and employer abuses are rampant and insurance rates are not regulated and the only voice the injured workers have are applicant attorneys. Gibson wants to silence that voice to continue gouging employers with outrageous premiums and widfall profits for insurance companies
Unfortunately there are unethical people in all professions and businesses, including attorney and insurance companies and their personnel. It used to be that insurance companies routinely issued drafts (not checks) to injured workers, using banks on the other coast. The injured, some of whom did not have bank accounts, were often unable to obtain their much needed cash. It took a friend of mine, an applicant’s attorney, to sue the companies, and obtain a substantial judgment, to correct that abuse. He first went to the company’s office asking them to cash the draft, which they were unable or unwilling to do. Now all claims are paid by check. Without the applicant’s bar, the injured may be left to the “good wishes” of the adjusters, and we know what that means.
A big reason for higher premiums for any type of insurance is attorneys. If they care so much about people, let them take cases that are not on a contingency basis. When responsible for their own inflated costs, they show their true colors.
Worker Compensation is NOT a “gravy train” for lawyers. The average fee on a WC case is under $2,000 often for 20 to 30 hours of work. The overhead for the law business is very high, particularly considering the cost of legal malpractice, rent, salaries, computers, and all the other things needed to run a business. Most WC attorneys are sole practitioners or small firms of less than five attorneys, and the average compensation of an Applicant attorney, after payment of expenses, is less than $100,000 per year, and more likely, in the $50,000 to $75,000 range. WC law is a high overhead, labor intensive business. We do it because we want to help deserving injured workers and screw greedy insurance companies. We sure as hell don’t get rich.
How much will employers save as a result of recent legislation and how soon can they expect rate reduction?
Whoever wrote this article doesn’t know the first thing about workers’ comp. Applicant attorneys are not lining their pocket with 15% attorney fees and there is no gravy train. Applicant Attorney represents the injured workers because they need our representation. Their benefits are typically delayed, thety are denied medical ncare and they are often fired for having an injury. Now their benefits have been mutilated by the new laws. It is a horrible time for the workers’ of this state to have their benefits taken away so the insurance companies can line their pockets. In my world we do not take from the poor to give to the rich. I think the writer missed the point here. The greed is in the hands of the insurance companies. They reap the benefit here,not the employer. I suggest you be truthful about who is lining their pockets.
i sincerely hope that there are enough legislators with guts to stop this group from interfering with the rate reductions.
It is long past time that “caps” were put on the percentage of the settlement lawyers can take. Of course, we can’t get that done, but maybe, just maybe employers are mad enough to oust from office the
assemblymen and senators who would favor the attorneys.
BOY DO I FEEL SO BAD FOR THE APPLICANT ATTORNEY. THEY ARE ONE ON THE MAJOR COST DRIVERS IN THE COMP SYSTEM. BY THE WAY WORK COMP IS A NO FAULT SYSTEM. WHY DO WE NEED A LAWYER? BECAUSE SOMEONE WANT MORE THAN THEY ARE ENTITLED TOO. I HAVE HANDLE MANY CLAIMS IN 3O YEARS OF COMMERCIAL INS REPRESENTATION OF MY INSUREDS AND COMPANIES IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A CLAIM DENIED EVEN IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE. AND AS FOR BENEFITS BEING REDUCED THE PREVIOUS REFORM RAISED THE TEMP DISABLILITY FROM $356 TO OVER $800.
COME ON WHO IS KIDDING WHO. THE LAWYERS NEED TO LEAVE THE TROUGH.
I note, sir/madame, that you did not post your name on this comment. I am always suspicious of anonymous comments.
The truth is that attorneys do not drive the costs in work comp. We merely fight for our clients to get all the benefits to which they are entitled under the law. We get paid a small fee (15%) out of a small portion (permanent disability) of those benefits. Our fee does not increase the cost to the employer or insurance company. We do not recieve fees from the Temporary Disability rates you have quoted.
The reason we need a lawyer in a no-fault system is because claims adjusters like you don’t give the injured worker the benefits he/she needs in a timely manner.
The fact is that the insurance industry and employers have continued to lie about how the workers’ comp system works and what lawyers do in that system. It is the classic strategy: Identify a problem, Identify a group that is feared or hated, then blame the problem on that group. The best example of this statagy was a monster with the initials A.H. Check your history books around 1938-1945 and you will find him prominantly mentioned.
Consider the truth next time.
The new limits of 24 chiropractic visits per work related injury is going to drive treatment costs up not down. The patients which were being managed and stabilized with chiropractic will be forced to visit more expensive alternatives such as pain management doctors who charge $3-5k per facet block or epidural. Office visits are 2-3x’s more expensive than chiropractic visits. This will be a major failure once they see the costs go up rather than down as they expected. Chiropractic ranks at 10% of the overall cost in the Workers’ Comp budget. It isn’t chiropractors who are driving the costs up. In fact, study after study finds that chiropractic saves money by decreasing disability, lost work days, and treatment costs. It’s just like politicians to mislead people. Chiropractic has a history of being falsely accused and discriminated against despite the it’s growing popularity.
Brovo…. Thanks for the response. If your description of the situation is right-on then I feel a little bit better about the current quagmyure. The Legal Community may need to hook up woth a P.R. firm to attend to the greater issue burning ===== An overall Lack of trust
We have now been fully informed, in his opinion, by Mr. Blank. (That) All you Worker’s compensation insurance carriers doing business in the state of California are on the up & up. It’s not that I don’t feel that the applicants attorney’s are either.
Provoked by his comment of “IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A CLAIM DENIED EVEN IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE” Liar, Liar, pants on fire. Let me take you back to the IJ west edition, May 17, 2004. Page 8, continued on Page 70. In Oregon the R.O.D. (rate of denial) annually, is about 7,000 per/yr, 4% higher than the 59% market share & 25% of the 7,000 appeal their denied claims. Can’t see this reason either to be a need of applicant attorney’s now can we? Better not even think of SAIF being able to insure employees that work outside the state of Oregon. “No Thanks” slim fast would work good enough here. Best to see if there any comparison’s studies to SCIF or the other insurance carriers doing business in the State of California with what SAIF practices.
Previous emails on this topic have made it clear that the reason for W.C. premiums (and claims) being outrageous (double digit increases compounded annually year after) is NOT the fault of: (1) attorneys; (2) adjusters; (3) chiropractors; (4) insurers; (5) poor, down-trodden workers.
Obviously, there is no Workers’ Compensation crisis; there never was one. It was all a myth.
I have a better solution. Let’s just make Workers Compensation VOLUNTARY and go back to the good old days. Employees can sue–but they have to prove at least ordinary negligence.
OR
Better yet, let’s just ship all the jobs to the Republic of China and move all the executive offices to Idaho; then the attorneys, adjusters, chiropractors, laid-off employees and others won’t have anything to complain about.
I have been in the Workers’ Compensation business for over 30 years. This legislation is a shame.
The current rates will come down not because of this legislation but because the insurers are collecting excess premiums to pay for the price war they developed as a result of open rating.
Get real Californians, you are being had by the polititions and the insurance companies.
HEY SAM GET REAL, THE ONLY CARRIER LEFT MAY BE MAKING MONEY, BUT HEY OPEN RATING ONLY COST US 12 WORK COMP CARRIERS LEAVING THE STATE BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T HOLD THEIR MARKET SHARE AND WENT BROKE.AND BY THE WAY CARRIERS CUT THEIR RATES BY 50% IN 1995 EVERYBODY FORGOT THAT THE RATES NOW ARE JUST COMING BACK TO PRE 95 LEVELS WITH MUCH MORE EMPLOYEE BENEFITS NOW(DESERVEDLY)
As an insurance broker, I often review loss
runs with clients and in many cases it the same
story. The employee files a claim after they were
terminated or laid off and all of a sudden
they remember an injury that occurred (which
no one saw) and they get a hold of an atty.
Next thing you know, a $20,000 reserve is set up and
the client is screaming at you to get it off.
Or, there is a minor injury at work and the employee
should take it easy for a few days; however, he is able
to play soccer or move furniture with his buddy, meanwhile
medical bills keep piling up and he is working 2 other
jobs and collecting TD.
The problem with the system it out and out ABUSE.
You have hit a good part of it on the head. Everyone wants a free lunch thanks to the erosion of ethics and morals of the last years; the “I am not responsible for anything and nothing is ever my fault” or “Poor pitiful me” thought processes running rampant today. This is further enhanced by attorneys who have and are taking advantage of it, which makes news, which brings two of the other 3 factions in to the overall problem. Last but not least, I have no doubt there are still some issues to be taken up with some carriers. However, with all of the regulation, complaint processes, and auditing that applies to insurance carriers, it is obviously not the biggest part of the problem. I challenge anyone who disagrees with that to work for an insurance company for one month to see the depth of the fraud and enhancement of injuries or other losses that is going on for all kinds of insurance, not just WC. Listen to TV and hear the advertisements by attorneys showing very healthy people bragging how they received tens of thousands of dollars as a settlement. Everyone wants that and if they get less, they feel they are victims. Doesn’t anyone know the definition of accident anymore? Regardless of what happened, someone has to pay and pay big. THAT IS WRONG!
I guess people are just scared to say it like it is and take action to put some type of regulation on the attorneys like has been put on carriers. How about public viewing of their billing practices and amounts they receive and make annually.
SPECIAL THANKS TO THOSE OF YOU THAT UNDERSTOOD WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET OVER.NOT SURE WHY THE NAME DIDN’T COME UP BEFORE. AND ANOTHER POINT, WHY IS DOCTOR SHOPPING NOW RESTRICTED IN THE NEW LEGISLATION. WHO CREATED DOCTOR SHOPPING ANYWAY. THE EMPLOYER?? THE CARRIER?? THE APPLICANT??? THE ATTORNEY. YES WINNER!!!
Prior reforms failed because of “…judicial decisions, legal challenges, unexpected consequences, regulatory mishaps” These were insurance sponsored reforms too. What makes you think you’re any smarter now. The system is gutted, shifting the burden from employers and insurers to group insurance, state programs MediCare and, of course taxpayers. Litigation and costs will skyrocket. Great job
I HAVE NOT HAD A CHANGE TO READ ALL THE CHANGES TO WORK COMP. BUT, I DO KNOW OF ONE CHANGE I COMPLETE OPPOSE. THE LIST OF DOCTORS IS CREATED BY THE INSURANCE CO. OR YOUR EMPLOYER. THIS IS TOTALLY INSANE AS IF THE ONLY DOCTORS YOU COULD GO TO WERE FROM LAWYERS. AS I FIGURED, WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THIS REFORM, TOTALLY FOR COMPANIES AND EMPLOYEES ARE GOING TO BE THE LOSERS.
WHEN I HAD TO FILE ON A PERM DISABILITY I NEVER GOT A LAWYER, WHY WOULD I NEED ONE? BUT WORK COMP. DENIED ME, STATING I DID NOT HAVE ASTHMA (CAUSED WORKING IN LUMBER MILL). SO I GOT A LAWYER AND IT COST ALOT MORE MONEY. WORK COMP. FIGURE I WOULDN’T FIGHT. I WON AND STILL SUFFER TODAY LOSSING 4 TO 8 WEEKS OF WORK A YEAR. WORK COMP. NEEDS A COMPLETE OVERHAUL, THIS WILL COST MONEY, BUT WILL BENEFIT EVERYONE.
Mr. Lynch,
I wonder if you can do a breakdown of what it costs business owners to provide WC Attorneys with your supposed annual income? I know from experience that it costs close to $100,000.00 to defend yourself against a wrongful claim, and thats when the case was thrown out.
Unfortunatly in your “Real World” you only see the potential for settlement that keeps you in office space and computer systems. In my Real World I see the potential for devastation that is present anytime an employee has an accident.
I suppose it’s too much to ask for attorneys to take the time to investigate the facts before filing suit. If it was turned around and the costs for unfounded claims were born by the attorneys then maybe you would only take cases that had merit rather than those against employers with the ABILITY TO PAY!
Using this screed to wrap dead fish would be an insult to the fish.
The fact of the matter is that there will be no signifincant savings because there is no competitive market. A competitive market means the consumer has a choice. Here, the insurance industry, especially after unregulated predatory pricing drove out most of the players, has a captive market. Employers have to buy – no choice at all. So, instead of dedicating themselves to fighting fraudlent claims, or fighting outrageous medical bills, the lazy and greedy insurers simply pay the bill and pass it on to the employer. What do they care as long as a profit is made?
If we had regulation, allowing a fair profit, then to maximize profit within those guidelines the insurers would have to fight, rather than pay, bad claims. I wsih they would. I would drive out the bad doctors and lawyers.
WELL JMA I GUESS YOU DON’T KNOW HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS. I AM AN INSURANCE BROKER AND ON MANY OCCASSIONS I HAVE ASK THE INSURER TO FIGHT. THE ISSUE IS THEY CAN’T WIN. WHEN THEY GO TO THE APPEALS BOARD, THE POOR INJURED WORKER WHO IS GETTING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY EVERY ONE, HAS HIS DOCTOR, HIS APPLICANTS ATTORNEY THERE,USUALLY THE BIG INSURANCE CO LOOSES THEIR FIGHT.AND BECAUSE THEY TRIED TO FIGHT AND LOST BECAUSE THE EMPLOYER DOESN’T HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE THAT THE PERSON WASN’T ACTUALLY HURT ON THE JOB, THEY ARE ALSO FINED AT THAT TIME FOR HOLDING BACK THE BENEFITS.UNFORTUNATELY THEY NEVER HARDLY EVER WIN. YOU DO THE MATH?
I think everyone that has never been an injured worker would have a different attitude it they were in that situation. My husband has been on Workers’ Comp for 2 and a half years; I would not wish this situation on my worst enemy! He has been to many different doctors, some of who have told him that nothing is wrong with him; my husband injured his knee at work. He had 2 Arthroscopic surgeries which resulted in him developing Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD) also known as Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS); this is one of the most excruciatingly painful diseased you could have. My husband will now have to walk with a cane and take pain medication for the rest of his life; unless, by some miracle, his RSD goes into submission for a couple of years, but it will come back anyway. He is severely limited by the things he can do; he can’t even wear pants because anything touching his knee is very painful. If the wind blows, he cries in agony. He is now depressed all of the time, not only from knowing he will never be the same man again, but also from all of these new Workers’ Comp laws that are taking affect. Why does everyone think that every single person on Workers’ Comp is a bad guy? That they are cheating the system? If you ask me, the system is cheating the real injured workers! This is a disgrace! Why should someone with such a debilitating disease be treated like a criminal? If people that are for all of these cuts on Workers’ Comp payments to injured workers could just come stay with us overnight, they would find out who is really hurting from all of this; and it is not the big companies that think they are paying too much! It is the workers, who cannot sleep at night because they are in too much pain; who will never be able to run along side their daughters or sons; who’s marriages are suffering because they have mood swings, depression, loss of concentration and sexual drive; who will never be able to go skiing again, or hiking or biking, or backpacking or hunting, just to mention a few! What kind of job will my husband be able to return to? No kind of job! Who would hire a man that has to change positions every 10 to 15 minuets? Who is on methadone? Who has to take naps sometimes 3 times a day because of his pain? Everyday he beats himself up, about how for the rest of his life he will never be the same as he was before he went to work that one awful day. How thinking that if he had just done one thing different that day his life would not be ruined now; he wouldn’t be worrying from one day to the next what kind of laws are going to be passed to cheat him out of the money he has a RIGHT to receive! Just put yourself in my husband’s place and I guarantee you that you will think differently about Workers’ Comp!
If all of the claims were as you describe, and there were not the bogus claims which most likely outnumber legitimate ones, AND if attorneys were held accountable for frivilous lawsuits and the fraud involved, we would not be reading these articles or posting and reading these comments. What about his going to school to learn a trade that he could do on a computer? Chances are it would help him take his mind off of his pain as well as get him back into the mainstream as a working member of society. I KNOW you get get help for the schooling, have you checked it out?
My husband is supposed to get voc. rehab to learn a new trade. However when he starts doing that, he will only be receiving $200 a week in pay, and he can’t do that until his doctor says he is permanent and stationary. I was a stay at home mother until my husband was hurt, then I had to go back to work when my daughter was 9 months old, because they weren’t paying my husband near what he was making when he was working. With the new laws, it sounds like he will get cheated even more than he is going to right now!