I don\’t know. I have been trying to get spanked at work for sometime. There just have not been any takers. I almost had the copy guy and the lady that works in the coffee shop ready to do it, but they turned me down at the last minute. I guess I just keep fighting the good fight.
At the end of the day, it is a really pathetic attempt to motivate your employees-and really belittling to an employee, doesn\’t matter what age, male or female. I guess the word \”Professional\” is lost on this company..
I am just stunned that some of you (not all, some) can be so good at reading between the lines and just make an assumption (first thing I learned when I entered the insurance field in 1968 what the word \”assume\” really means :) )without benefit of personally sitting in the courtroom. Without knowing all the facts, well, she MUST be after the money – god forbid should anyone sue for the principal of the thing, and then have the odassity to be a female
M
P.S. And you Manley Man, one of the bad things about reading is you don\’t have benefit of tone and facial expression. Hopefully that was tongue in cheek, if not, how pathetic
Janet Orlando, testified in her case that she was so embarrassed by three spankings that she quit her job in February 2003 after five months.
Her attorney, Nicholas \”Butch\” Wagner, presented to the jury several calculations from a financial expert, on how much Orlando deserves for lost wages. The highest sum was $1.2million, but Wagner said that $841,000 was the most appropriate figure. He added that between $15,120 and $36,000 should be tacked on to pay for psychological and psychiatric treatment.
Orlando\’s lost wages would be a fraction of those amounts, because, the state of California refused to issue Orlando an alarm agent\’s license one month after she quit her job as a field supervisor for the company\’s Fresno office.
Without the license, Baker said, Orlando would not have been able to continue working as a salesperson. Her lost wages would be between $3,000 and $9,000 for the month before her application was denied because of a pending shoplifting charge.
Orlando filed against another previous employer, Rodeo Nissan, a car dealership in Clovis. Orlando reached a settlement in that case, which centered on a female employee who was accused of sexually harassing Orlando.
A document from that lawsuit, reveals Orlando was asked whether she had any other stressors in her life since she left the car dealership. The question was posed to her in November 2004, after she had already left Alarm One.
\”I don\’t believe so at all,\” Orlando said, according to the court document.
Not long after that case concluded, Orlando filed suit against Alarm One.
Well, looks like my faith in humanity was misplaced – new data makes it appear much more likely that Janet is indeed a big part of the problem, not a piece of the solution.
I\’m still a firm believer that the workplace and those in it have a ways to go in making sure everyone, regardless of race, sex, etc. have equal opportunities to participate in our economy, but it seems clear this particular lawsuit is just another example of how our system of justice can be abused.
The jury (6 men/6 women)found Janet Orlando was subjected to sexual harassment and sexual battery. The jury said Orlando did not suffer from sexual assault, as she had alleged.
Jurors awarded Orlando:
$10,000 for economic loss,
$40,000 for future medical costs
$450,000 for emotional distress, pain and suffering
$1.2 million in punitive damages
Company puts together sales initiative program. Participation is voluntary. I would assume that the rewards/penalties for the winners/losers were known before you agreed to join.
The way I see it, there are a couple of options. First, if you\’re not comfortable with the risk/reward of the contest, don\’t join in. Second option, join in and WIN!
Who else thinks that this lady was probably one of the first in line laughing at the humiliations faced by the other losers, but couldn\’t stomach the contents when the dish was presented to her.
What really gets me is that she would have the gall to sue for something this ridiculous, that there was yet another morally challenged lawyer willing to take the case, and because this is CA, odds are she\’ll win!
Welcome to the justice lottery ladies & gentlemen. Step right up, and we\’ll give you a b.s. reason to sue someone for millions.
Enough from me. I\’m off to McDonalds…my lap needs some coffee.
TXGuru – your reasoning is off. First, this has to be one of the worst \”sales incentive\” programs ever concocked. This isn\’t a BS reason to sue. The employer is in the wrong for, first, coming up with this type of incentive program.
She\’ll win, not because it\’s CA, but because the employer was in the wrong for not only allowing this, but actually coming up with the idea in the first place. This doesn\’t build camaraderie, it builds anamosity towards the employer and fellow employees.
Personally, I believe the employer may be guilty from a criminal standpoint also.
I agree w/ Hinky on this one. I don\’t care if my employer came up with this type of voluntary participation exercise, it appears designed to humiliate people. Who cares if it does not discriminate…it is a horrible way to promote healthy competition and work environment. My husband is in sales, and if his company ever came up w/ a hair-brained idea like this, I\’m sure no one would participate (unless a lot of alcohol were involved). That being said, I don\’t think the humiliation suffered by this person is worth $1.2 million. It may be worth some compensation, but let\’s be realistic!
First, let me state that I never said the premise for this incentive program was a good one. I\’ve been in sales for several years, and I can\’t think of a single example of pure stupidity in incentive making that would eclipse this one.
My problem is that a person that VOLUNTEERED to participate, when (I assume) the consequences were established and known prior to the choice to particpiate, suddenly decides to sue because they were embarrassed and humiliated by said agreed upon consequences.
Suing for $1.2 million when this appears to be nothing more than a classic example of \”sore loser\” and pure opportunism spawned by a litigious society run amock is what I take issue with.
Although partipation may have been \”voluntary\” (and I use the quotes liberally), within a sales organization or sales department, there can be a lot of pressure put on to participate. Organizations take a dim view of those that don\’t participate.
I don\’t agree that this is opportunistic. The employer brought this on themselves by coming up with \”sales incentive\” program. We can agree to disagree upon the amount, but the employer was out of line for even thinking up this idea.
What ever happened to FREE WILL?? At 53 years old, doesn\’t this lady think before she reacts? Sure… it was a bad sales incentive on the company\’s part but the plaintiff needs to accept her portion of the responsibility as well.
I certain that TxGuru is not a single working mother who needs her job, who may not have a savings to fall back on if she is fired, and was put in a position to do something out of fear of financial ruin.
Not all of us are Oil barons Mr. TX – many of us just exist the best we can. I feel really sorry for this woman, and I feel really sorry for you too for not understanding what women face in the work environment everyday.
What happened was not right, should not have happened and the owners should be pubically humiliated for what they allowed to happen in their company.
The spankee is an idiot. She is more than old enough to have made the decision to refuse to be spanked in the first place–it\’s called self-esteem and standing up for yourself. If she were fired for refusing to participate, then she would have a legitimate reason to sue. She\’s just making herself look like a complete imbecile.
I\’m not sure why you are bringing up that she is a woman, and the \”poor working woman\” excuse. I, for one, am sick of hearing of it.
This excercise of free will involved EVERY salesperson, not just women or minorities. Even balding white men participated. For you to do the whole \”poor woman\” routine does absolutely nothing for the women who are out here every day pounding the pavement trying to make an honest living. You should be ashamed.
I was a single mom raising a daughter on my own, making just above minimum wage and scraping by when I got into this biz. I got my butt in gear because I wanted more for my daughter, and I worked for it – nobody gave me anything. I really resent the attitude that I should have been pitied.
Looks like the idiots are still growing strong; another one made it to 53 & may grow older yet, now that she has a possible nest egg to fall back on. Perhaps she is to old to have more of her own, but please do not allow any adopted child to be under her care! We need people that are capable of making decisions for themselves & then not trying to sue everyone else because they were the dumb A$$ that made them self look like an idiot – no wonder she was humiliated – she wasn\’t smart enough to say no – OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH – that may have something to do with it to – maybe she never just said no & maybe she did inhale!
Employment Practices Liability and only if they purchased it. It is a very expensive policy in California (roughly 2x+ of any other state), but is highly recommended due to the litigious climate and lack of employer protections.
Likelyhood of this business having this coverage: 1 in 10.
Are not women and men totally equal? That is what the NOW gang says. Being spanked with a sign-two teams one loses-all losers chastised with spanking and comments. Not just this lady. Sounds like fun and games, NOT TORTURE. This has absolutely nothing to do with being a single mother-all of her bad choices-not mine. This has nothing to do with being a woman. Men were also spanked.
Stupid games..YES…TORTURE & HUMILIATION…NOT….
We can choose not to work for companies like these…
We are employees of our own will. We can start our own companies, we can find better employment, heck we can even question potential employers about what typically happens for training, etc. We can choose to quit-before going through such an earth shattering tragedy. Life is in our hands, we can set higher standards for ourself, we can trade a little security of a steady check for the high risk and high potential reward of going into business for ourselves. Always knocking employers gets you know where. Instead get the GUTS to make it on your own!!!
Having fun at work $39.58
Getting spanked….PRICELESS!!!!!!!
Just ask any lawyer.
Not only did she have the option of not participating she also has the option of NOT WORKING THERE.
Yes, when the employer came up with what she thought was a stupid, perhaps even shameful incentive program she could have quit. Either walked out the door then or started looking for another job. Employment is not, and should not be, guaranteed.
If my employer came up with this hairbrained idea I\’d be gone ASAP. There\’s a gazillion sales jobs out there and there\’s nothing special about selling home alarm equipment, in fact it\’s probably near the bottom of the sales ladder.
This is bad all around – bad decisions by the employer followed by bad decisions by the employee.
Bottom line – if the employer had not made the bad decision to start none of this would have happened.
Folks, this woman has a legitimate claim. If you don\’t believe me, go to your internal HR department with this article and explain to them that you believe the woman suing is wrong. My guess is they\’ll enroll you in some \”sensitivity training\” real darn quick.
The legal term is \”hostile work environment\” – if the employer creates a hostile work environment, members of a protected class (everyone except single straight white men under 40) can sue under Title 7. The classic case is where a woman working in a auto garage sued because the guys put up centerfolds all over the place. She won. So, what do you think the result will be in the current case, involving physical contact with sexual connotations? Don\’t bet against this one.
Several of you wrote about how this was \”voluntary.\” Well, according to the law, and common sense, you\’re wrong: any such public setting pretty much ensures that participation really isn\’t \”voluntary\” – everyone knows that failure to participate will have consequences.
This is an important issue. The work place is changing, with all sorts of new participants. People seem unable to realize that the work setting is NOT A SOCIAL SETTING – different rules apply. Work is hard enough that people shouldn\’t have to be put through experiences they find humiliating or shameful. And just like beauty, humuliation and shame are in the eye of the beholder. If you\’re unable to consider how others might respond to your actions and act considerately, you\’re a walking discrimination timebomb. Like the jackass who thought up this \”team building\” exercise.
I am sure this woman has also filed a workers\’ comp claim of which she probably remains off of work for a psychiatric injury and collecting over $3000 a month in disability benefits. I am not sure when the injury occurred, but most likely she can milk the disability for 5 years.
More than likely, she filed a work comp claim first and her money-hungry attorney told her that she could end up with more money in her, \”his\”, pocket if they sued under EPL. I seriously doubt that this woman walked into her attorney’s office and said, I want to file an EPL claim.
Ever since the CA work comp reform of 2004 signed by our very famous governor, work comp attorneys have been losing money because the cases aren\’t worth what they used to be. There is a growing trend in CA that attorneys are now pursuing employment practices cases to protect and increase their revenue. If you don’t believe me, look it up.
From my perspective, it is never about the injured employee, but always about the next new car, vacation, house, you name it…that the attorney wants to own.
Why wasn\’t it a hostile work environment until her team lost and she had to face the \”consequences\” of losing????
It sounds like this competition between teams had been going on for some time, so I am assuming that she knew about the \”consequences\” for losing and probably witnessed them a time or two.
It can be a hostile work environment even when the \”hostilities\” are not directed at you personally. So,if it was a hostile work environment, like she is claiming, she should have sued when she first found out about &/or witnessed the \”consequences\”.
Sensitivity training..I do handle our HR department. We will not go down the PC road. Just cause she might win does not make her right!!! Women say they can do anything a guy can do(leftists women). Yet the entire business world has had to change to incorporate women and make them comfortable. Nursing rooms, day care rooms, sensitivity training, one sided laws, etc. I am not against women who choose to work or have to work. Just apply some common sense! If a female goes to work in a male dominated profession, like auto repair, do all the men have to change to make her feel comfortable or should she accept what is already there. I honestly think hanging up pictures of scantily clad or nude women is totally degrading period. I wont go to work where that is hanging around.
We have many God given rights in this great country, but the right to never be offended does not exist!!!!!!!!
This was not a hostile work environment it was a group activity for fun. She was offended- grow up or quit!!!!!!!!!
It was a hostile work environment for as long as a reasonable person could (not \”would\”) find it to be so. And a jury will decide what a reasonable person would feel in that situation. Maybe she was quaking in her shoes at the thought of losing and getting spanked every day, but it was the actual experience that pushed her over the edge and prompted her to sue.
I\’m saddened that so many people are jumping to defend this company and their inane program. If instead of a spanking, the penalty was to strip naked and run around the office, would you deny someone\’s claim just because it was supposedly \”voluntary\” and that \”everyone else participated\”?
I\’m a lawyer (not practicing though) and also a HUGE believer that many members of the plaintiff\’s bar are nothing more than leeches on society. I think Dicky Scruggs is pure, distilled evil. Even with that strong bias against frivolous lawsuits, I still think this one has some merit.
People need to realize that others in their work environment may be more sensitive to some things than they temselves are, and seek to understand this and avoid offensive actions. It\’s called \”compassion\” and it\’s a good thing.
So, people with sensitivities that are different than yours should have fewer opportunites for satisfying employment? That\’s interesting.
And I like this quote:
\”Yet the entire business world has had to change to incorporate women and make them comfortable\”
Sooo…instead we men should be able to carry on however we like and make women uncomfotable? Why is our comfort more important than their comfort? Shouldn\’t we ALL be able to be comfotable in our work environment?
You\’re right about the freedom thing. And in a social, truly voluntary setting, I\’d be right there with you decrying this woman\’s actions. But surely you agree that work is a different situation. This is not about a right not to be offended, this is about a right to have the same opportunities for gainful, enjoyable employment regardless of age, race, sex, etc..
Welcome to the 2000\’s, MUD, sounds like you\’re in for a rough trip.
Not one of these posts supported the company, not one! They all said it was stupid. What most posts are saying is that the lady had numerous outs!!! I don\’t think many folks would volunteer for running around nude. Im sorry… they do when they work for Playboy and the porn industry-yet it is not considered a hostile environment- How can that be. no one has to be naked with Hef, it\’s voluntary, unless you want to become a centerfold- now that is stressful stuff, you can\’t move up the porn ladder unless you perform at ever more disgusting levels! Now there is an example of using force to get women to do something they really dont want to do all in the name of getting ahead.
A little spanking never hurt anyone, unless it was done at work. These antics are better left for home. What were sales managers thinking? This is not the 1960\’s!
Actually I do not agree with you. I never even hinted at behaving like an idiot, all my posts(please actually read them before commenting) condemned such acts of stupidity. I believe being a gentlemen at home, in public, and at work is a must. No sensitivity training will make that happen. Sensitivity training is all about pushing the homosexual agenda and other leftists agendas!!!!!!!!!!
The majority should not have to change to please a minority. But in the twisted world of leftists, that makes sense to them. Lets be honest, this company is not the norm. Successful companies typically operate under common sense. I do not nor ever will support an unprofessional work place, but the facts are facts. The business world had to change to incorporate a few leftists women. We all had to pay the costs of daycare. There is a tax credit for day care, yet my wife stays home with our girls-which is a very important thing-actually raising your own children, and not pawning that responsibility off on others. But Uncle Sam\’s tax code discourages this good behavior by rewarding only those women who put children in day care. They get money back in reduced taxes. Sensitivity training never happened before, now there are people actually earning salaries for this. More costs to business which are passed on to all consumers.
Have we in this industry become so jaded that we really don\’t see the point? The company was way out of line for even scheduling such an event. There are many reasons why people stay in abusive situations both at work and at home. Why don\’t we wait to see what comes out of the case before judging this woman.
I never disputed the fact that it was a hostile work environment. I was just wondering why she did not sue sooner?? If she was so offended and bothered by the hostile environment, why did it take until she was on the losing team to claim it was hostile and take action??
And never once did I defend the company and their inane program. In fact, it is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.
I\’m too am saddened. Saddended by the fact that people these days are not willing to use their personal judgment and accept responsibility. It is everyone else\’s fault, but our own. She knew what the \”consequences\” were she when agreed to participate. She wasn\’t forced to; nor was it required of her job.
You have already judged the company as being wrong. Why can\’t we actually use the grey matter under our skull for thinking instead of feeling. I can actually review facts and make an informed conclusion.
Maybe I am not \’sensitive enough\’!! But I have never applied for a job where any of the qualifications involved \’sensitivity\’. Many opportunities involved the ability to think on my feet and process data accurately and quickly, but never sensitivity. The ability to not judge, thats a new one. Every time we think, not feel, we are making judgements. I think this route would be better than that route. That is judgement and judgement can and should be used in our lives!!!!
So smelling what you are cooking ManGuy. I am all on board with a little \”losening up\” in the work place! Why stop at spankings tho? Companies need to install a keggerator and have a little more beer-thiry time and a little less who-can-we-sue time. A real company would step up to the plate and become a leader – how you ask? Paid drinking holidays such as St. Paddy\’s day, Cinco de Mayo, and, well…Fridays. You rock ManGuy – just hope you can bring those knuckle dragging, stuffed shirts into a new millineum.
OK, you guys obviously did not read my comments below. I\’m telling you, this woman probably first filed a work comp claim for a psyche injury (yes, we pay them here in CA), lived off of $3000+ a month disability, and filed the EPL claim after her work comp claim settled for less than what her attorney was hoping for.
I seriously doubt this woman walked into an attorney\’s office and said, I want to file an EPL claim.
Read my firs comment in the string of all of this madness and you will see the growing trend in CA is EPL claims.
Trust me! It\’s not about the injuries or harassment that this woman sustained. It is about the attorney\’s pocketbook!!!!!
I have been working in the transportation business for over 15 years. I work with truck drivers, mechanics and shippers all over the company. I don\’t believe that ANYONE should be subject to anything that is degrading. The company in this case made a decision that clearly wasn\’t thought through.
As a woman, I get tired of hearing the \”POOR ME\” excuse. Women go into the military and expect to be treated fairly. At the same time, when they are sent to the field for a 30 field problem, they demand to be sent in for a shower run every other day while the men go for weeks. (Been married to the military for 13 years, know from experience) The point I am trying to make is…don\’t scream for equal treatment and then turn it around when it suits you.
In my industry, I have been put in MANY situations that I was not comfortable with. I spoke up and let management know I was not comfortable. They used common sense and removed me from or removed the situation. I am not talking about getting myself or anyone else fired.
She does have a valid lawsuit according to the law. It doesn\’t excuse the fact that she made a bad decision by participating even thought she was uncomfortable. If you want the same pay, same benefits and the same respect as your male couterparts, don\’t pull the GENDER card when you are treated equally. If a situation makes you that \”humilated\”, remove yourself from it.
I think this would be interesting to see who says what about which side of the argument.
Bottom line, anyone can sue anyone for anything in this country, right or wrong. That\’s what makes us not like Iraq or Iran. Women have rights. It took us a long time to get here.
If this suit brings the end to such stupid office antics, good for her and her suit.
Let me ask you all how many CEO\’s you know of carriers who are women? Equal under the eyes of the law, yes. Equal in the work environment, not completely, but we are getting there.
Yes, I am a professional business woman, and proud of it. I worked hard to get where I am. My company? Very fair, they even throw wedding showers for the men who are getting married in the office.
Sales competitions should be for trips to Vegas or Hawaii, not for slaps on the butt.
Women belong at home raising the babies and cooking and cleaning. If they stayed home and did their job, we wouldn\’t have all the problem latchkey children we have now.
Worked for people who had strippers come in and take it all off for a birthday party, during work hours; worked for punks whose every other word in the office started with F; worked for creeps who told disgusting racist and misogynist
jokes at business dinners; worked for married jerks who flagrantly carried on with their mistresses at work.
There is just no end to the lack of class and decency exhibited by some people.
Manly Man, what planet are you from? Did you time travel to 2006 from 1952? These days many low and middle income families need to have both parents work just to pay the bills and pay taxes and insurance. Not everyone can afford the luxury of having the mother stay home with the children. You are an elitist snob.
That is a lie, unless having several cars, fancy vacations, all the lastest gadgets, high end appliances, etc. are actual necessities.
I think none of those items can replace a mom being home to raise her children. There are some extreme examples of moms needing to work, but lets not make decisions based on a few, but instead look at the reality.
Just ask the kids what is more important, mom or the vacation home in SC????????
Hey MUD – You picked the right name – Your narcissistic comments make me wonder just how your wife stands you and your arrogant attitude. She\’s probably glad you go to work every day –
Your statement that \” There is a tax credit for day care, yet my wife stays home with our girls-which is a very important thing-actually raising your own children, and not pawning that responsibility off on others. But Uncle Sam\’s tax code discourages this good behavior by rewarding only those women who put children in day care. They get money back in reduced taxes. \”
What an assanine statement – you think all the single working woman out there are \”pawning\” off their responsibility just so they can go out and work for a living?!?!?! Of course, you would probably rather they go on welfare so they can stay home and raise their kids to be a leech on society. I make enough money in my profession that I don\’t qualify for your \”tax credit\” ***** session\” I work because I have to – I\’m a responsible single working mother and proud to say that I\’ve raised my children to be respectable young adults – who open doors for women, say please and thank you and still call adults Mr. and Mrs., are involved in sports, have excellent grades, are thought of highly by their friends parents as bright intellegent and courteous – Just because children are in day care – doesn\’t negate the responsibility of teaching your children right and wrong – Tell me…. anything missed that your wife provides for your kids as a stay at home parent???
Hats off that you have a wife at home who is able to spend time with your kids – You\’re in the minority – more then 50% of marriages out there end in divorce so don\’t put down the rest of us that are out there working because we have to – I would have rather stayed home but it wasn\’t an option – I have job that I\’ve worked hard at to be in the position that I am – I can\’t get the years back that I had to sacrifice to be able to keep a home and still provide for all the activities your children enjoy during the day – My kids have the opportunity to go to college as well – something that wouldn\’t have been possible if I didn\’t work to get them there.
As for the article – the employer is an idiot for coming up with such a scheme regardless of whether it were a mixed workforce or not – It is an office – not a fraternity – If it was an Auto Repair Shop you put yourself in that environment – you have to expect what you get.
If this was truly a voluntary \”exercise and the consequences were clear at the beginning – the woman is just as much of an idiot for not having the back bone to stand up say she wasn\’t going to participte in the first place
If it were a matter of intimidation or fear of retailation by her co-workers then she should have taken it up with the HR department – at 53 years of age – and being a woman, she probably thought she wouldn\’t be able to get another job because of age discrimination – and yes people – it\’s out there and it\’s a frightening thing if you\’re the sole breadwinner – face it – she most likely doesn\’t have many other opportunities if she was working as a telemarketer.
But don\’t whine if you make the decision – you play – you pay – or in this case she\’s hoping someone else will…
It does not matter the sex of a CEO only the qualification. When will leftists women realize this. Most women in the work place, according to the most recent data, choose flexible jobs and benefits over climbing the corporate ladder. It seems as though, in general terms, men have a much stronger desire to compete for top paying jobs and are also willing to spend less time at home to become CEO\’s. When women do the same job with same experience, they are paid equally.
Oh by the way, thank the Republicans for fighting for womens rights in Iraq, while the Democrats \’PRETEND\’ to stand for womens rights here at home.
My point is absolutely correct. Was it ever my fault any of you when you got married and say \’for better or worse till death do we part,\” Get divorced? No it was your fault, no one elses. Just like it was this womens\’ fault, no one elses!!
Whining about your or any one elses circumstances does nothing. Circumstances come about as a result of each of our independent choices. So stop crying!!
As an aside they are not my children my beautiful wife is raising they are ours, a precious, valuable gift from God…and WE treat them as the most valuable of treasures on earth.
Liberals are easy to spot. Just wait for them to open their mouths and hear what they say. They cannot argue on merits only resort to name calling. But that is all they have since the facts and evidence disproves almost every theory they have ever held. Those of us who train our minds to be better each day and analyze with our minds instead of our hearts will believe the facts when they come into play-even if it disproves what we previously thought to be true.
I am constantly improving myself…personally and professionally. So I am prepared for the future, it does not scare me one bit. By the way the only jobs going overseas are low to non skilled jobs that anyone five or six year old could do. Why on earth would anyone fear that outcome?>????
MUD, I did not hear a person \’whining\’ as you put it. I heard a person trying to point out that your narrow minded view of working women was incorrect. Clearly you believe you and your family are superior to anyone out there in a different circumstance..i.e. a working mother, single mother. Your narrow minded view does not take many circumstances into consideration. What about a widow raising children? Rather than join the workforce and become productive shoulds he get in the welfare line just to preserve YOUR biased thinking that a woman should not work? I bet you have your wife walk 2 steps behind and to the side, and only allow her to speak when spoken to! Does she have any independent thought, or only what you tell her to think? Get a grip!
Please tell me you read the entire discussion before commenting. No I don\’t think you did!!! It is not narrow minded to suggest the best for your children or mine. I think it is idiotic to make rational decisions because of a few…outside the norm situations. Just like this supposed fact that 50% of all marriages end in divorce…that is an absolute lie…meant to discredit the norm. If one starts with 100 married couples, and 10 new couples get married and there are 5 divorces during the same time…is there a 50% divorce rate? For the educated mind the answer is no; the divorce rate is 4.5%.
I never said a woman should not work, never even hinted at that. She was whining..she said what about all the divorced women. Her point never even answers what she was refuting…that Uncle Sam gives tax credits to families that use day care, and I have to pay for their day care as well as all other taxpayers. She called me a name because I brought this up. You can choose to live any way you want just don\’t make the Government force me to support those choices!!! Also she provides no benefits to my family at all, although she suggest that, and also denegrates me and my wife. For me to state an absolute fact, and then to be told I am narrow-minded…Thank-you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being narrow minded, but those who supposedly have open minds constantly knock anyone who doesn\’t believe what they believe. I think our definitions of open and narrow minded have gone astray.
The husband of the widow should have provided life insurance so his wife would not have had to change her lifestyle. Choices my friend choices. There are consequences to each decision we make some good and some bad. The best way to improve those consequences is to make the best decisions around our values(not mine), but each persons values.
Lastly, you know very little-to nothing about me or my wife, please refrain from the libels.
Hats off to MUD. You bring up MANY good points that I agree with. Why should I have to pay for medical, dental, or daycare for someone else\’s kids? It doesn\’t take a village to raise a child… it takes a parent who\’s hands aren\’t tied by the state or federal government. If you\’re a parent, do your job and raise your child. That includes after school activities and insurance. It\’s NOT my job to pay for local daycare through my taxes.
Mud, you might want to get more informed before you start spouting your nonsense. As for jobs being outsourced to India and China, many of these jobs are not something \”a five or six year old\” could do as you stated. My company just outsourced all the IT and computer programmer jobs to Bangalore.
Hope it doesn\’t happen to you. If it did, you would have to go on welfare since your wife isn\’t allowed to work. And then WE would have to pay for your children\’s food and clothing. How would you like that?
If you don\’t want the world to know you are a full then don\’t open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Liberals..tsk…tsk…I know it can not be WORK raising children and running a household, but wait others pay people to do this same thing. So maybe it is work. My future is in God\’s hand, He has promised to always meet my needs…I do not have to fear tomorrow cause today has enough worries of its\’ own. And I wish you the best, I \’feel\’ your fear for the future….does that make things better for you???????????
I\’m sorry but after a full sarbane oxley compliance review along with a detailed
actuarial analysis the actual IBNR exposure for my business is closer to 40 billion dollars based on the precedent set by this case.
I will be turning over entire country of
Botswana ( of which I obtained from the prime minister in payment for my counseling services) as payment for this litigation when it develops.
I think you should do another review. Some factors may not have been considered. Such as what if an asteroid blows up Botswana, you will need to build in for such contingencies.
Ladies, please ignore MUD, he obviously has no work to do. It does seem that everybody missed the point and MUD is using this forum to voice his political nonsense. It is amazing to me to see some of the ridiculous team building exercises being implemented at companies. The way to improve sales and increase revenues is increasing customer service and satisfaction, not humiliating employees. As long as there are people like MUD and employers spanking their workforce, there will be never be a shortage of EPL attorneys to file suits…rightfully so. I hope my daughter chooses to become an EPL attorney.
Sure… Ignore MUD. While we\’re at it, let\’s blame him for the large number if illegal immigrants or our poor public school systems. Better yet, maybe he had something to do with 911? Instead of attacking each other, try being accountable for your actions. Hmmmm… being held accountable for your OWN actions. What a novel idea. That means that if you agree to participate in a foolish sales incentive, you are the ONLY one to blame. That doesn\’t remove the company from their responsibility.
Instead of spewing political agendas, try accepting the fact that MUD believes that God provides. It\’s one nation under God. Don\’t like it? Move to a country that believes in something other than God.
I have been reading these posts with a lot of interest.
1. Its true that this person had a right to sue
2. Its true that in our society today, not only will many of these cases will-at least in a settlemnt
3. Many lives will be ruined as a result
4. True workplace equality-in this instance between mena nd women will not be achieved as long as these suits are allowed to be settled or decided by judges.
This entire conversation proves this. We all have to do things that we don\’t agree with. You can even stretch it at times to call it weird or abusive or harrassing. Doesn\’t matter. When a potentially aggrieved party wins millions of dollars for this, then she will never be truly respected. My 2 cents
Man, I thought I lived in America. Try and silence those you disagree with….tsk…tsk…So it is my fault this entire situation happened. Wow!!!!! No wonder there are so many lawsuits in this country against insurance agents, many can read and understand. If you read the posts under intials MUD you will understand the truth otherwise you will remain in ignorance.
Such angry comments. All over a woman collecting $1.2 million. Do I agree? No! Did a jury find in her favor? Yes! There you are. Done! If you want to be angry over something try war, hunger, gas prices, abuse, medicare, any number of other things. If you want to discuss the article then discuss it. No personal attacks. I am sure that is not what this website had in mind.
I don\’t know. I have been trying to get spanked at work for sometime. There just have not been any takers. I almost had the copy guy and the lady that works in the coffee shop ready to do it, but they turned me down at the last minute. I guess I just keep fighting the good fight.
MSN has a news story on this trial.
At the end of the day, it is a really pathetic attempt to motivate your employees-and really belittling to an employee, doesn\’t matter what age, male or female. I guess the word \”Professional\” is lost on this company..
I am just stunned that some of you (not all, some) can be so good at reading between the lines and just make an assumption (first thing I learned when I entered the insurance field in 1968 what the word \”assume\” really means :) )without benefit of personally sitting in the courtroom. Without knowing all the facts, well, she MUST be after the money – god forbid should anyone sue for the principal of the thing, and then have the odassity to be a female
M
P.S. And you Manley Man, one of the bad things about reading is you don\’t have benefit of tone and facial expression. Hopefully that was tongue in cheek, if not, how pathetic
Janet Orlando, testified in her case that she was so embarrassed by three spankings that she quit her job in February 2003 after five months.
Her attorney, Nicholas \”Butch\” Wagner, presented to the jury several calculations from a financial expert, on how much Orlando deserves for lost wages. The highest sum was $1.2million, but Wagner said that $841,000 was the most appropriate figure. He added that between $15,120 and $36,000 should be tacked on to pay for psychological and psychiatric treatment.
Orlando\’s lost wages would be a fraction of those amounts, because, the state of California refused to issue Orlando an alarm agent\’s license one month after she quit her job as a field supervisor for the company\’s Fresno office.
Without the license, Baker said, Orlando would not have been able to continue working as a salesperson. Her lost wages would be between $3,000 and $9,000 for the month before her application was denied because of a pending shoplifting charge.
Orlando filed against another previous employer, Rodeo Nissan, a car dealership in Clovis. Orlando reached a settlement in that case, which centered on a female employee who was accused of sexually harassing Orlando.
A document from that lawsuit, reveals Orlando was asked whether she had any other stressors in her life since she left the car dealership. The question was posed to her in November 2004, after she had already left Alarm One.
\”I don\’t believe so at all,\” Orlando said, according to the court document.
Not long after that case concluded, Orlando filed suit against Alarm One.
Thank you Fraud Manager!
Well, looks like my faith in humanity was misplaced – new data makes it appear much more likely that Janet is indeed a big part of the problem, not a piece of the solution.
I\’m still a firm believer that the workplace and those in it have a ways to go in making sure everyone, regardless of race, sex, etc. have equal opportunities to participate in our economy, but it seems clear this particular lawsuit is just another example of how our system of justice can be abused.
$1.7 million
The jury (6 men/6 women)found Janet Orlando was subjected to sexual harassment and sexual battery. The jury said Orlando did not suffer from sexual assault, as she had alleged.
Jurors awarded Orlando:
$10,000 for economic loss,
$40,000 for future medical costs
$450,000 for emotional distress, pain and suffering
$1.2 million in punitive damages
Let\’s see…
Company puts together sales initiative program. Participation is voluntary. I would assume that the rewards/penalties for the winners/losers were known before you agreed to join.
The way I see it, there are a couple of options. First, if you\’re not comfortable with the risk/reward of the contest, don\’t join in. Second option, join in and WIN!
Who else thinks that this lady was probably one of the first in line laughing at the humiliations faced by the other losers, but couldn\’t stomach the contents when the dish was presented to her.
What really gets me is that she would have the gall to sue for something this ridiculous, that there was yet another morally challenged lawyer willing to take the case, and because this is CA, odds are she\’ll win!
Welcome to the justice lottery ladies & gentlemen. Step right up, and we\’ll give you a b.s. reason to sue someone for millions.
Enough from me. I\’m off to McDonalds…my lap needs some coffee.
TXGuru – your reasoning is off. First, this has to be one of the worst \”sales incentive\” programs ever concocked. This isn\’t a BS reason to sue. The employer is in the wrong for, first, coming up with this type of incentive program.
She\’ll win, not because it\’s CA, but because the employer was in the wrong for not only allowing this, but actually coming up with the idea in the first place. This doesn\’t build camaraderie, it builds anamosity towards the employer and fellow employees.
Personally, I believe the employer may be guilty from a criminal standpoint also.
I agree w/ Hinky on this one. I don\’t care if my employer came up with this type of voluntary participation exercise, it appears designed to humiliate people. Who cares if it does not discriminate…it is a horrible way to promote healthy competition and work environment. My husband is in sales, and if his company ever came up w/ a hair-brained idea like this, I\’m sure no one would participate (unless a lot of alcohol were involved). That being said, I don\’t think the humiliation suffered by this person is worth $1.2 million. It may be worth some compensation, but let\’s be realistic!
First, let me state that I never said the premise for this incentive program was a good one. I\’ve been in sales for several years, and I can\’t think of a single example of pure stupidity in incentive making that would eclipse this one.
My problem is that a person that VOLUNTEERED to participate, when (I assume) the consequences were established and known prior to the choice to particpiate, suddenly decides to sue because they were embarrassed and humiliated by said agreed upon consequences.
Suing for $1.2 million when this appears to be nothing more than a classic example of \”sore loser\” and pure opportunism spawned by a litigious society run amock is what I take issue with.
Although partipation may have been \”voluntary\” (and I use the quotes liberally), within a sales organization or sales department, there can be a lot of pressure put on to participate. Organizations take a dim view of those that don\’t participate.
I don\’t agree that this is opportunistic. The employer brought this on themselves by coming up with \”sales incentive\” program. We can agree to disagree upon the amount, but the employer was out of line for even thinking up this idea.
Yeah, and had she not volunteered, would be considered to not be a team player, and would probably have been fired…
And the person who came up with this bonhead idea should have been shown the door…
What ever happened to FREE WILL?? At 53 years old, doesn\’t this lady think before she reacts? Sure… it was a bad sales incentive on the company\’s part but the plaintiff needs to accept her portion of the responsibility as well.
I certain that TxGuru is not a single working mother who needs her job, who may not have a savings to fall back on if she is fired, and was put in a position to do something out of fear of financial ruin.
Not all of us are Oil barons Mr. TX – many of us just exist the best we can. I feel really sorry for this woman, and I feel really sorry for you too for not understanding what women face in the work environment everyday.
What happened was not right, should not have happened and the owners should be pubically humiliated for what they allowed to happen in their company.
Shame on them and Shame on TXGuru.
The spankee is an idiot. She is more than old enough to have made the decision to refuse to be spanked in the first place–it\’s called self-esteem and standing up for yourself. If she were fired for refusing to participate, then she would have a legitimate reason to sue. She\’s just making herself look like a complete imbecile.
Interesting responses, but time out for insurance questions:
Is the company covered?
What provision of any policy covers this?
How do you underwrite it?
I\’m not sure why you are bringing up that she is a woman, and the \”poor working woman\” excuse. I, for one, am sick of hearing of it.
This excercise of free will involved EVERY salesperson, not just women or minorities. Even balding white men participated. For you to do the whole \”poor woman\” routine does absolutely nothing for the women who are out here every day pounding the pavement trying to make an honest living. You should be ashamed.
I was a single mom raising a daughter on my own, making just above minimum wage and scraping by when I got into this biz. I got my butt in gear because I wanted more for my daughter, and I worked for it – nobody gave me anything. I really resent the attitude that I should have been pitied.
Looks like the idiots are still growing strong; another one made it to 53 & may grow older yet, now that she has a possible nest egg to fall back on. Perhaps she is to old to have more of her own, but please do not allow any adopted child to be under her care! We need people that are capable of making decisions for themselves & then not trying to sue everyone else because they were the dumb A$$ that made them self look like an idiot – no wonder she was humiliated – she wasn\’t smart enough to say no – OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH – that may have something to do with it to – maybe she never just said no & maybe she did inhale!
LOL – Happy Friday!
Employment Practices Liability and only if they purchased it. It is a very expensive policy in California (roughly 2x+ of any other state), but is highly recommended due to the litigious climate and lack of employer protections.
Likelyhood of this business having this coverage: 1 in 10.
Are not women and men totally equal? That is what the NOW gang says. Being spanked with a sign-two teams one loses-all losers chastised with spanking and comments. Not just this lady. Sounds like fun and games, NOT TORTURE. This has absolutely nothing to do with being a single mother-all of her bad choices-not mine. This has nothing to do with being a woman. Men were also spanked.
Stupid games..YES…TORTURE & HUMILIATION…NOT….
We can choose not to work for companies like these…
We are employees of our own will. We can start our own companies, we can find better employment, heck we can even question potential employers about what typically happens for training, etc. We can choose to quit-before going through such an earth shattering tragedy. Life is in our hands, we can set higher standards for ourself, we can trade a little security of a steady check for the high risk and high potential reward of going into business for ourselves. Always knocking employers gets you know where. Instead get the GUTS to make it on your own!!!
Having fun at work $39.58
Getting spanked….PRICELESS!!!!!!!
Just ask any lawyer.
Not only did she have the option of not participating she also has the option of NOT WORKING THERE.
Yes, when the employer came up with what she thought was a stupid, perhaps even shameful incentive program she could have quit. Either walked out the door then or started looking for another job. Employment is not, and should not be, guaranteed.
If my employer came up with this hairbrained idea I\’d be gone ASAP. There\’s a gazillion sales jobs out there and there\’s nothing special about selling home alarm equipment, in fact it\’s probably near the bottom of the sales ladder.
This is bad all around – bad decisions by the employer followed by bad decisions by the employee.
Bottom line – if the employer had not made the bad decision to start none of this would have happened.
Folks, this woman has a legitimate claim. If you don\’t believe me, go to your internal HR department with this article and explain to them that you believe the woman suing is wrong. My guess is they\’ll enroll you in some \”sensitivity training\” real darn quick.
The legal term is \”hostile work environment\” – if the employer creates a hostile work environment, members of a protected class (everyone except single straight white men under 40) can sue under Title 7. The classic case is where a woman working in a auto garage sued because the guys put up centerfolds all over the place. She won. So, what do you think the result will be in the current case, involving physical contact with sexual connotations? Don\’t bet against this one.
Several of you wrote about how this was \”voluntary.\” Well, according to the law, and common sense, you\’re wrong: any such public setting pretty much ensures that participation really isn\’t \”voluntary\” – everyone knows that failure to participate will have consequences.
This is an important issue. The work place is changing, with all sorts of new participants. People seem unable to realize that the work setting is NOT A SOCIAL SETTING – different rules apply. Work is hard enough that people shouldn\’t have to be put through experiences they find humiliating or shameful. And just like beauty, humuliation and shame are in the eye of the beholder. If you\’re unable to consider how others might respond to your actions and act considerately, you\’re a walking discrimination timebomb. Like the jackass who thought up this \”team building\” exercise.
I am sure this woman has also filed a workers\’ comp claim of which she probably remains off of work for a psychiatric injury and collecting over $3000 a month in disability benefits. I am not sure when the injury occurred, but most likely she can milk the disability for 5 years.
More than likely, she filed a work comp claim first and her money-hungry attorney told her that she could end up with more money in her, \”his\”, pocket if they sued under EPL. I seriously doubt that this woman walked into her attorney’s office and said, I want to file an EPL claim.
Ever since the CA work comp reform of 2004 signed by our very famous governor, work comp attorneys have been losing money because the cases aren\’t worth what they used to be. There is a growing trend in CA that attorneys are now pursuing employment practices cases to protect and increase their revenue. If you don’t believe me, look it up.
From my perspective, it is never about the injured employee, but always about the next new car, vacation, house, you name it…that the attorney wants to own.
Why wasn\’t it a hostile work environment until her team lost and she had to face the \”consequences\” of losing????
It sounds like this competition between teams had been going on for some time, so I am assuming that she knew about the \”consequences\” for losing and probably witnessed them a time or two.
It can be a hostile work environment even when the \”hostilities\” are not directed at you personally. So,if it was a hostile work environment, like she is claiming, she should have sued when she first found out about &/or witnessed the \”consequences\”.
Sensitivity training..I do handle our HR department. We will not go down the PC road. Just cause she might win does not make her right!!! Women say they can do anything a guy can do(leftists women). Yet the entire business world has had to change to incorporate women and make them comfortable. Nursing rooms, day care rooms, sensitivity training, one sided laws, etc. I am not against women who choose to work or have to work. Just apply some common sense! If a female goes to work in a male dominated profession, like auto repair, do all the men have to change to make her feel comfortable or should she accept what is already there. I honestly think hanging up pictures of scantily clad or nude women is totally degrading period. I wont go to work where that is hanging around.
We have many God given rights in this great country, but the right to never be offended does not exist!!!!!!!!
This was not a hostile work environment it was a group activity for fun. She was offended- grow up or quit!!!!!!!!!
Hi Just –
It was a hostile work environment for as long as a reasonable person could (not \”would\”) find it to be so. And a jury will decide what a reasonable person would feel in that situation. Maybe she was quaking in her shoes at the thought of losing and getting spanked every day, but it was the actual experience that pushed her over the edge and prompted her to sue.
I\’m saddened that so many people are jumping to defend this company and their inane program. If instead of a spanking, the penalty was to strip naked and run around the office, would you deny someone\’s claim just because it was supposedly \”voluntary\” and that \”everyone else participated\”?
I\’m a lawyer (not practicing though) and also a HUGE believer that many members of the plaintiff\’s bar are nothing more than leeches on society. I think Dicky Scruggs is pure, distilled evil. Even with that strong bias against frivolous lawsuits, I still think this one has some merit.
People need to realize that others in their work environment may be more sensitive to some things than they temselves are, and seek to understand this and avoid offensive actions. It\’s called \”compassion\” and it\’s a good thing.
Hi MUD –
So, people with sensitivities that are different than yours should have fewer opportunites for satisfying employment? That\’s interesting.
And I like this quote:
\”Yet the entire business world has had to change to incorporate women and make them comfortable\”
Sooo…instead we men should be able to carry on however we like and make women uncomfotable? Why is our comfort more important than their comfort? Shouldn\’t we ALL be able to be comfotable in our work environment?
You\’re right about the freedom thing. And in a social, truly voluntary setting, I\’d be right there with you decrying this woman\’s actions. But surely you agree that work is a different situation. This is not about a right not to be offended, this is about a right to have the same opportunities for gainful, enjoyable employment regardless of age, race, sex, etc..
Welcome to the 2000\’s, MUD, sounds like you\’re in for a rough trip.
Not one of these posts supported the company, not one! They all said it was stupid. What most posts are saying is that the lady had numerous outs!!! I don\’t think many folks would volunteer for running around nude. Im sorry… they do when they work for Playboy and the porn industry-yet it is not considered a hostile environment- How can that be. no one has to be naked with Hef, it\’s voluntary, unless you want to become a centerfold- now that is stressful stuff, you can\’t move up the porn ladder unless you perform at ever more disgusting levels! Now there is an example of using force to get women to do something they really dont want to do all in the name of getting ahead.
A little spanking never hurt anyone, unless it was done at work. These antics are better left for home. What were sales managers thinking? This is not the 1960\’s!
Cry me a river! Every women I know in their 50\’s enjoys a good spanking from time to time. Can\’t say I\’m any different.
People need to quit taking themselves so damm seriously. Lighten up. Then we need to kill all the attorneys!
Actually I do not agree with you. I never even hinted at behaving like an idiot, all my posts(please actually read them before commenting) condemned such acts of stupidity. I believe being a gentlemen at home, in public, and at work is a must. No sensitivity training will make that happen. Sensitivity training is all about pushing the homosexual agenda and other leftists agendas!!!!!!!!!!
The majority should not have to change to please a minority. But in the twisted world of leftists, that makes sense to them. Lets be honest, this company is not the norm. Successful companies typically operate under common sense. I do not nor ever will support an unprofessional work place, but the facts are facts. The business world had to change to incorporate a few leftists women. We all had to pay the costs of daycare. There is a tax credit for day care, yet my wife stays home with our girls-which is a very important thing-actually raising your own children, and not pawning that responsibility off on others. But Uncle Sam\’s tax code discourages this good behavior by rewarding only those women who put children in day care. They get money back in reduced taxes. Sensitivity training never happened before, now there are people actually earning salaries for this. More costs to business which are passed on to all consumers.
Mike from Boston:
Cross your legs!
Have we in this industry become so jaded that we really don\’t see the point? The company was way out of line for even scheduling such an event. There are many reasons why people stay in abusive situations both at work and at home. Why don\’t we wait to see what comes out of the case before judging this woman.
I never disputed the fact that it was a hostile work environment. I was just wondering why she did not sue sooner?? If she was so offended and bothered by the hostile environment, why did it take until she was on the losing team to claim it was hostile and take action??
And never once did I defend the company and their inane program. In fact, it is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.
I\’m too am saddened. Saddended by the fact that people these days are not willing to use their personal judgment and accept responsibility. It is everyone else\’s fault, but our own. She knew what the \”consequences\” were she when agreed to participate. She wasn\’t forced to; nor was it required of her job.
You have already judged the company as being wrong. Why can\’t we actually use the grey matter under our skull for thinking instead of feeling. I can actually review facts and make an informed conclusion.
Maybe I am not \’sensitive enough\’!! But I have never applied for a job where any of the qualifications involved \’sensitivity\’. Many opportunities involved the ability to think on my feet and process data accurately and quickly, but never sensitivity. The ability to not judge, thats a new one. Every time we think, not feel, we are making judgements. I think this route would be better than that route. That is judgement and judgement can and should be used in our lives!!!!
So smelling what you are cooking ManGuy. I am all on board with a little \”losening up\” in the work place! Why stop at spankings tho? Companies need to install a keggerator and have a little more beer-thiry time and a little less who-can-we-sue time. A real company would step up to the plate and become a leader – how you ask? Paid drinking holidays such as St. Paddy\’s day, Cinco de Mayo, and, well…Fridays. You rock ManGuy – just hope you can bring those knuckle dragging, stuffed shirts into a new millineum.
OK, you guys obviously did not read my comments below. I\’m telling you, this woman probably first filed a work comp claim for a psyche injury (yes, we pay them here in CA), lived off of $3000+ a month disability, and filed the EPL claim after her work comp claim settled for less than what her attorney was hoping for.
I seriously doubt this woman walked into an attorney\’s office and said, I want to file an EPL claim.
Read my firs comment in the string of all of this madness and you will see the growing trend in CA is EPL claims.
Trust me! It\’s not about the injuries or harassment that this woman sustained. It is about the attorney\’s pocketbook!!!!!
I have been working in the transportation business for over 15 years. I work with truck drivers, mechanics and shippers all over the company. I don\’t believe that ANYONE should be subject to anything that is degrading. The company in this case made a decision that clearly wasn\’t thought through.
As a woman, I get tired of hearing the \”POOR ME\” excuse. Women go into the military and expect to be treated fairly. At the same time, when they are sent to the field for a 30 field problem, they demand to be sent in for a shower run every other day while the men go for weeks. (Been married to the military for 13 years, know from experience) The point I am trying to make is…don\’t scream for equal treatment and then turn it around when it suits you.
In my industry, I have been put in MANY situations that I was not comfortable with. I spoke up and let management know I was not comfortable. They used common sense and removed me from or removed the situation. I am not talking about getting myself or anyone else fired.
She does have a valid lawsuit according to the law. It doesn\’t excuse the fact that she made a bad decision by participating even thought she was uncomfortable. If you want the same pay, same benefits and the same respect as your male couterparts, don\’t pull the GENDER card when you are treated equally. If a situation makes you that \”humilated\”, remove yourself from it.
I think this would be interesting to see who says what about which side of the argument.
Bottom line, anyone can sue anyone for anything in this country, right or wrong. That\’s what makes us not like Iraq or Iran. Women have rights. It took us a long time to get here.
If this suit brings the end to such stupid office antics, good for her and her suit.
Let me ask you all how many CEO\’s you know of carriers who are women? Equal under the eyes of the law, yes. Equal in the work environment, not completely, but we are getting there.
Yes, I am a professional business woman, and proud of it. I worked hard to get where I am. My company? Very fair, they even throw wedding showers for the men who are getting married in the office.
Sales competitions should be for trips to Vegas or Hawaii, not for slaps on the butt.
You go girl!
Sorry,
Women belong at home raising the babies and cooking and cleaning. If they stayed home and did their job, we wouldn\’t have all the problem latchkey children we have now.
Worked for people who had strippers come in and take it all off for a birthday party, during work hours; worked for punks whose every other word in the office started with F; worked for creeps who told disgusting racist and misogynist
jokes at business dinners; worked for married jerks who flagrantly carried on with their mistresses at work.
There is just no end to the lack of class and decency exhibited by some people.
Gladly:
Did you work at the White House during the Clinton Admin?
Manly Man, what planet are you from? Did you time travel to 2006 from 1952? These days many low and middle income families need to have both parents work just to pay the bills and pay taxes and insurance. Not everyone can afford the luxury of having the mother stay home with the children. You are an elitist snob.
That is a lie, unless having several cars, fancy vacations, all the lastest gadgets, high end appliances, etc. are actual necessities.
I think none of those items can replace a mom being home to raise her children. There are some extreme examples of moms needing to work, but lets not make decisions based on a few, but instead look at the reality.
Just ask the kids what is more important, mom or the vacation home in SC????????
Based on this lawsuit I figure I have about 3 billion in IBNR.
Hey MUD – You picked the right name – Your narcissistic comments make me wonder just how your wife stands you and your arrogant attitude. She\’s probably glad you go to work every day –
Your statement that \” There is a tax credit for day care, yet my wife stays home with our girls-which is a very important thing-actually raising your own children, and not pawning that responsibility off on others. But Uncle Sam\’s tax code discourages this good behavior by rewarding only those women who put children in day care. They get money back in reduced taxes. \”
What an assanine statement – you think all the single working woman out there are \”pawning\” off their responsibility just so they can go out and work for a living?!?!?! Of course, you would probably rather they go on welfare so they can stay home and raise their kids to be a leech on society. I make enough money in my profession that I don\’t qualify for your \”tax credit\” ***** session\” I work because I have to – I\’m a responsible single working mother and proud to say that I\’ve raised my children to be respectable young adults – who open doors for women, say please and thank you and still call adults Mr. and Mrs., are involved in sports, have excellent grades, are thought of highly by their friends parents as bright intellegent and courteous – Just because children are in day care – doesn\’t negate the responsibility of teaching your children right and wrong – Tell me…. anything missed that your wife provides for your kids as a stay at home parent???
Hats off that you have a wife at home who is able to spend time with your kids – You\’re in the minority – more then 50% of marriages out there end in divorce so don\’t put down the rest of us that are out there working because we have to – I would have rather stayed home but it wasn\’t an option – I have job that I\’ve worked hard at to be in the position that I am – I can\’t get the years back that I had to sacrifice to be able to keep a home and still provide for all the activities your children enjoy during the day – My kids have the opportunity to go to college as well – something that wouldn\’t have been possible if I didn\’t work to get them there.
As for the article – the employer is an idiot for coming up with such a scheme regardless of whether it were a mixed workforce or not – It is an office – not a fraternity – If it was an Auto Repair Shop you put yourself in that environment – you have to expect what you get.
If this was truly a voluntary \”exercise and the consequences were clear at the beginning – the woman is just as much of an idiot for not having the back bone to stand up say she wasn\’t going to participte in the first place
If it were a matter of intimidation or fear of retailation by her co-workers then she should have taken it up with the HR department – at 53 years of age – and being a woman, she probably thought she wouldn\’t be able to get another job because of age discrimination – and yes people – it\’s out there and it\’s a frightening thing if you\’re the sole breadwinner – face it – she most likely doesn\’t have many other opportunities if she was working as a telemarketer.
But don\’t whine if you make the decision – you play – you pay – or in this case she\’s hoping someone else will…
It does not matter the sex of a CEO only the qualification. When will leftists women realize this. Most women in the work place, according to the most recent data, choose flexible jobs and benefits over climbing the corporate ladder. It seems as though, in general terms, men have a much stronger desire to compete for top paying jobs and are also willing to spend less time at home to become CEO\’s. When women do the same job with same experience, they are paid equally.
Oh by the way, thank the Republicans for fighting for womens rights in Iraq, while the Democrats \’PRETEND\’ to stand for womens rights here at home.
what will wifey do when your high-paying job is outsourced to India? Hahahahahahaha
My point is absolutely correct. Was it ever my fault any of you when you got married and say \’for better or worse till death do we part,\” Get divorced? No it was your fault, no one elses. Just like it was this womens\’ fault, no one elses!!
Whining about your or any one elses circumstances does nothing. Circumstances come about as a result of each of our independent choices. So stop crying!!
As an aside they are not my children my beautiful wife is raising they are ours, a precious, valuable gift from God…and WE treat them as the most valuable of treasures on earth.
Liberals are easy to spot. Just wait for them to open their mouths and hear what they say. They cannot argue on merits only resort to name calling. But that is all they have since the facts and evidence disproves almost every theory they have ever held. Those of us who train our minds to be better each day and analyze with our minds instead of our hearts will believe the facts when they come into play-even if it disproves what we previously thought to be true.
Sorry
Like Poe I miscalculated. 4.6 billion would probably be a more accurate IBNR projection
I am constantly improving myself…personally and professionally. So I am prepared for the future, it does not scare me one bit. By the way the only jobs going overseas are low to non skilled jobs that anyone five or six year old could do. Why on earth would anyone fear that outcome?>????
Working Mom that posted today is not the same one who posted 04/29/06.
MUD, I did not hear a person \’whining\’ as you put it. I heard a person trying to point out that your narrow minded view of working women was incorrect. Clearly you believe you and your family are superior to anyone out there in a different circumstance..i.e. a working mother, single mother. Your narrow minded view does not take many circumstances into consideration. What about a widow raising children? Rather than join the workforce and become productive shoulds he get in the welfare line just to preserve YOUR biased thinking that a woman should not work? I bet you have your wife walk 2 steps behind and to the side, and only allow her to speak when spoken to! Does she have any independent thought, or only what you tell her to think? Get a grip!
Please tell me you read the entire discussion before commenting. No I don\’t think you did!!! It is not narrow minded to suggest the best for your children or mine. I think it is idiotic to make rational decisions because of a few…outside the norm situations. Just like this supposed fact that 50% of all marriages end in divorce…that is an absolute lie…meant to discredit the norm. If one starts with 100 married couples, and 10 new couples get married and there are 5 divorces during the same time…is there a 50% divorce rate? For the educated mind the answer is no; the divorce rate is 4.5%.
I never said a woman should not work, never even hinted at that. She was whining..she said what about all the divorced women. Her point never even answers what she was refuting…that Uncle Sam gives tax credits to families that use day care, and I have to pay for their day care as well as all other taxpayers. She called me a name because I brought this up. You can choose to live any way you want just don\’t make the Government force me to support those choices!!! Also she provides no benefits to my family at all, although she suggest that, and also denegrates me and my wife. For me to state an absolute fact, and then to be told I am narrow-minded…Thank-you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being narrow minded, but those who supposedly have open minds constantly knock anyone who doesn\’t believe what they believe. I think our definitions of open and narrow minded have gone astray.
The husband of the widow should have provided life insurance so his wife would not have had to change her lifestyle. Choices my friend choices. There are consequences to each decision we make some good and some bad. The best way to improve those consequences is to make the best decisions around our values(not mine), but each persons values.
Lastly, you know very little-to nothing about me or my wife, please refrain from the libels.
Hats off to MUD. You bring up MANY good points that I agree with. Why should I have to pay for medical, dental, or daycare for someone else\’s kids? It doesn\’t take a village to raise a child… it takes a parent who\’s hands aren\’t tied by the state or federal government. If you\’re a parent, do your job and raise your child. That includes after school activities and insurance. It\’s NOT my job to pay for local daycare through my taxes.
Mud, you might want to get more informed before you start spouting your nonsense. As for jobs being outsourced to India and China, many of these jobs are not something \”a five or six year old\” could do as you stated. My company just outsourced all the IT and computer programmer jobs to Bangalore.
Hope it doesn\’t happen to you. If it did, you would have to go on welfare since your wife isn\’t allowed to work. And then WE would have to pay for your children\’s food and clothing. How would you like that?
If you don\’t want the world to know you are a full then don\’t open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Liberals..tsk…tsk…I know it can not be WORK raising children and running a household, but wait others pay people to do this same thing. So maybe it is work. My future is in God\’s hand, He has promised to always meet my needs…I do not have to fear tomorrow cause today has enough worries of its\’ own. And I wish you the best, I \’feel\’ your fear for the future….does that make things better for you???????????
Sorry misspelled fool with full like I am not hungry.
I\’m sorry but after a full sarbane oxley compliance review along with a detailed
actuarial analysis the actual IBNR exposure for my business is closer to 40 billion dollars based on the precedent set by this case.
I will be turning over entire country of
Botswana ( of which I obtained from the prime minister in payment for my counseling services) as payment for this litigation when it develops.
I think you should do another review. Some factors may not have been considered. Such as what if an asteroid blows up Botswana, you will need to build in for such contingencies.
Ladies, please ignore MUD, he obviously has no work to do. It does seem that everybody missed the point and MUD is using this forum to voice his political nonsense. It is amazing to me to see some of the ridiculous team building exercises being implemented at companies. The way to improve sales and increase revenues is increasing customer service and satisfaction, not humiliating employees. As long as there are people like MUD and employers spanking their workforce, there will be never be a shortage of EPL attorneys to file suits…rightfully so. I hope my daughter chooses to become an EPL attorney.
I think the ladies making the comments on this forum ought to start listening to Dr. Laura on a daily basis. Maybe read her books too.
Sure… Ignore MUD. While we\’re at it, let\’s blame him for the large number if illegal immigrants or our poor public school systems. Better yet, maybe he had something to do with 911? Instead of attacking each other, try being accountable for your actions. Hmmmm… being held accountable for your OWN actions. What a novel idea. That means that if you agree to participate in a foolish sales incentive, you are the ONLY one to blame. That doesn\’t remove the company from their responsibility.
Instead of spewing political agendas, try accepting the fact that MUD believes that God provides. It\’s one nation under God. Don\’t like it? Move to a country that believes in something other than God.
I have been reading these posts with a lot of interest.
1. Its true that this person had a right to sue
2. Its true that in our society today, not only will many of these cases will-at least in a settlemnt
3. Many lives will be ruined as a result
4. True workplace equality-in this instance between mena nd women will not be achieved as long as these suits are allowed to be settled or decided by judges.
This entire conversation proves this. We all have to do things that we don\’t agree with. You can even stretch it at times to call it weird or abusive or harrassing. Doesn\’t matter. When a potentially aggrieved party wins millions of dollars for this, then she will never be truly respected. My 2 cents
I have a better idea… let\’s take Jimmy Buffet\’s advice…
Why don\’t we get drunk & screw – LOL
God Bless Everyone!
Man, I thought I lived in America. Try and silence those you disagree with….tsk…tsk…So it is my fault this entire situation happened. Wow!!!!! No wonder there are so many lawsuits in this country against insurance agents, many can read and understand. If you read the posts under intials MUD you will understand the truth otherwise you will remain in ignorance.
Such angry comments. All over a woman collecting $1.2 million. Do I agree? No! Did a jury find in her favor? Yes! There you are. Done! If you want to be angry over something try war, hunger, gas prices, abuse, medicare, any number of other things. If you want to discuss the article then discuss it. No personal attacks. I am sure that is not what this website had in mind.