If you read the rules, all contestants must be a naturally born “WOMAN”, not transgender or a man who thinks he is a woman. And if he does compete and looses, its because he does not deserve to win (which is exactly what end result will be). This is ridiculous!
OK, then the lawsuit won’t hold up. But, should they change the rules, then who cares? Just let her compete and let the judges decide just like they do with the current pool of candidates.
This is a factually incorrect article. The Miss USA pageant, and the Miss Universe Organization are not associated with this listed pageant. Transgender contestants have competed before under Miss Universe Organization pageants. Please source your info correctly.
Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t invalidate it. Why do you think you get to stand in judgement of what someone else experiences? Why do you get to control what someone can or can’t do with their life? What makes you the expert on gender dysphoria, do you hold a medical or psychological license? Or are you just kind of bigoted?
What I have is a belief that a man is a man and a woman is a woman.The determining factor for is is what are you born with between your legs.
December 26, 2019 at 1:08 pm
Jon says:
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So, again, why do you think you know better than everyone else and you should get to decide what someone else does with their life? Do you realize how manipulative it is to assume that you know someone else’s motivations and try to convince others that you know better than they do?
December 26, 2019 at 2:07 pm
FFA says:
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This article is about (and only about) a man that wants to compete in a womans competition.
Im not sure why you think you can tell me what to believe, but you cant. My opinion are just that, my opinion. God (yes God) gaveme free will to form them and the constitution of the United States of American give me the right to voice them even if you want to trample on my rights just because they don’t line up with your opinions. .
Just to be clear, I stand in judgment of NO ONE. . .
I hope you had a great Christmas. My lunch is over and I’m getting back to work.
December 26, 2019 at 2:48 pm
Jon says:
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Your response is incorrect. This is a woman who was born as a man and has competed in various competitions but was rejected at one in particular in a way she feels is discriminatory. Your judging of her has no bearing on the facts of this case. You are calling someone who lives as a woman a man because their life makes you uncomfortable. That’s what we call bigotry.
I didn’t tell you what to believe in any way. I asked you questions about why you feel you get to make decisions about how someone else lives their life, which you have not answered. Your opinion is fine, but when you use it as a basis to prevent others from living their life is when it boils into what we call fascism. You’re allowed to be religious, you’re allowed to believe it’s wrong. But when you insist that someone else is something they’re not because it doesn’t fit with your beliefs, that’s when you’re the problem.
You’re trying to martyr yourself for having a bigoted opinion now because you were called out on it. No one is stepping on your right to voice your opinion, I’m merely pointing out that your opinion is exactly what it is: Bigotry. You can be a bigot, no one ever said you had to be a good person, but you’re trying to use religion to justify hate, that’s on you, not God.
December 26, 2019 at 3:03 pm
FFA says:
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Yea… your right. How could I be so wrong? Sorry.
December 26, 2019 at 4:05 pm
Augustine says:
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Jon, are you medical doctor or a psychologist? You literally just accused him of being judgmental, then you called him a bigot… Gender dysphoria is technically a form of delusion where an individual of one sex feels as though they are a different biological sex. Many transgender individuals suffer from real, psychological problems like gender dysphoria… This is just a fact….
December 26, 2019 at 4:17 pm
Augustine says:
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P.S. Delusion is technically not part of the definition of gender dysphoria which primarily means discomfort, distress or unhappiness with one’s assigned gender… However, I don’t think delusion is a stretch in this particular context… Just my 2 cents, you probably disagree. Just because someone feels uncomfortable with their gender–which is their right as a human being–I don’t have to also affirm, support or agree with their “dysphoria” or discomfort.
December 26, 2019 at 4:25 pm
Augustine says:
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Jon: I would honestly like your opinion on this. We can both agree that we should be sympathetic towards someone with “gender dysphoria,” right? And I am willing to empathize that an individual struggling with their gender is going through a great deal of emotional and psychological turmoil (which is obviously, very difficult). Now, do you think that I should be forced to also call that same individual by the gender he identifies with? I mean, they are struggling with discomfort and other issues relating to their gender, however, should I really be forced or compelled to agree with them? Don’t I also have the right to disagree with their assertions? Is this hateful? I am genuinely curious to know your opinion. I am not trolling.
December 26, 2019 at 4:26 pm
Jon says:
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I am not a medical professional, Augustine, and you are correct you actually appear to know more on this subject than I do. I wasn’t trying to provide or encourage a psychology lesson though, I honestly was just trying to change his attitude from one of attacking someone else for no reason. There’s a real lack of respect to these individuals on this message board, and it’s completely needless and silly. A good deal of the people on IJ (Specifically people like Jack, Jax, Perplexed) have made very ignorant, transphobic and often homophobic comments in response to these articles. You’re allowed to believe what you want, but if you’re going to spread intolerance on a public forum these are the kinds of responses you should be prepared for.
December 26, 2019 at 4:29 pm
Jon says:
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Honestly I understand your position, and I don’t think you have to conform to something you don’t believe in to make the other person comfortable, but you can offer them the respect of a “Them/they” instead of blatantly disregarding their feelings with a “Him/her” in opposition to what they’re presenting. If you truly don’t believe a transgender woman is a woman that’s your belief, but to refer to them as “him” is disrespectful to something important to them, why not just say they or them?
December 26, 2019 at 4:38 pm
Augustine says:
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Jon, I appreciate your comments and your response. I think we can definitely agree that people deserve respect, regardless of whether or not we agree with them. I also agree that we shouldn’t ever go out of our way to arbitrarily offend people (that is a fool’s errand if there ever was one). Thank you for reading and responding in kind.
December 26, 2019 at 4:53 pm
Jon says:
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Thank you as well! It’s a rare treat to have a discussion with someone on this board of a differing opinion but who can respectfully have that discussion.
December 26, 2019 at 3:55 pm
??? says:
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I’m interested to know how you would classify an individual with Androgen insensitivity syndrome?
AIS is a disorder where a developing fetus is resistant to male hormones, so never develops into a male, instead grows and is born female. Although their genetics is XY.
I have no opinion on that what so ever. Never even know it was a a thing.
December 27, 2019 at 8:38 am
??? says:
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FFA,
That’s the real point on trans and gender identity.. Most people won’t force you or fight your opinion on gender, but at the very least it’s well worth reading into various forms to understand its not always black and white.
December 27, 2019 at 11:12 am
FFA says:
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??? you may very well be right. What I dont need is some random internet stranger branding me a bigot cause I got the wrong pronoun. That special brand of McCarthyism – you dont agree with me so you are what I say you are…
To be honest, I have no intention of becoming more educated on this subject. My gay friends are respectful of me not being gay.I am respectful of them being gay. They dont push their way on me and I don’t push my way on them. I have found my comfort zone on this subject. If that makes me a bigot, then so be it.
I fully support this lawsuit. Additionally, I’m going to be entering the contest. Although I am a 73 year old, 220 pound grandma, I identify as a svelte 18 year old 108 pound, 5’10 blond with Celine Dion’s voice. I’m sure I’m going to win, and if I don’t, I will sue those bigots!
Seriously, this is a discussion topic??? A pageant with transgenders is akin to a bad 30’s sci fi pic. Bottom line is that Miss/Mrs anything pageants are held for men, not women. Granted that most men do not want to watch pageants anyway but if we do we don’t want TG’s parading around hoping we enjoy their display of plastic surgery and hormone injections.
This entire TG episode was set up only for law suits and its time that the courts put a stop to these travesties.
Are you kidding me? What’s this world coming to…
Why don’t all these transgenders just start their own “Miss Transgender USA Pageant” ?
Pretty sure this was already the strategy in the 50s. Why don’t they just use their own water fountains….
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Because they will file another discrimination lawsuit against the judges for not choosing them as the winner.
If you read the rules, all contestants must be a naturally born “WOMAN”, not transgender or a man who thinks he is a woman. And if he does compete and looses, its because he does not deserve to win (which is exactly what end result will be). This is ridiculous!
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
No Don’t. Don’t even give her / him a participation trophy.Slam the door in his / her face.
This is a factually incorrect article. The Miss USA pageant, and the Miss Universe Organization are not associated with this listed pageant. Transgender contestants have competed before under Miss Universe Organization pageants. Please source your info correctly.
Claiming to be something, or someone, you’re not – doesn’t make it so. It only means you’re delusional.
Transphobic ignorance.
Or just telling it like it is.
More transphobic ignorance, then?
Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t invalidate it. Why do you think you get to stand in judgement of what someone else experiences? Why do you get to control what someone can or can’t do with their life? What makes you the expert on gender dysphoria, do you hold a medical or psychological license? Or are you just kind of bigoted?
What I have is a belief that a man is a man and a woman is a woman.The determining factor for is is what are you born with between your legs.
So, again, why do you think you know better than everyone else and you should get to decide what someone else does with their life? Do you realize how manipulative it is to assume that you know someone else’s motivations and try to convince others that you know better than they do?
This article is about (and only about) a man that wants to compete in a womans competition.
Im not sure why you think you can tell me what to believe, but you cant. My opinion are just that, my opinion. God (yes God) gaveme free will to form them and the constitution of the United States of American give me the right to voice them even if you want to trample on my rights just because they don’t line up with your opinions. .
Just to be clear, I stand in judgment of NO ONE. . .
I hope you had a great Christmas. My lunch is over and I’m getting back to work.
Your response is incorrect. This is a woman who was born as a man and has competed in various competitions but was rejected at one in particular in a way she feels is discriminatory. Your judging of her has no bearing on the facts of this case. You are calling someone who lives as a woman a man because their life makes you uncomfortable. That’s what we call bigotry.
I didn’t tell you what to believe in any way. I asked you questions about why you feel you get to make decisions about how someone else lives their life, which you have not answered. Your opinion is fine, but when you use it as a basis to prevent others from living their life is when it boils into what we call fascism. You’re allowed to be religious, you’re allowed to believe it’s wrong. But when you insist that someone else is something they’re not because it doesn’t fit with your beliefs, that’s when you’re the problem.
You’re trying to martyr yourself for having a bigoted opinion now because you were called out on it. No one is stepping on your right to voice your opinion, I’m merely pointing out that your opinion is exactly what it is: Bigotry. You can be a bigot, no one ever said you had to be a good person, but you’re trying to use religion to justify hate, that’s on you, not God.
Yea… your right. How could I be so wrong? Sorry.
Jon, are you medical doctor or a psychologist? You literally just accused him of being judgmental, then you called him a bigot… Gender dysphoria is technically a form of delusion where an individual of one sex feels as though they are a different biological sex. Many transgender individuals suffer from real, psychological problems like gender dysphoria… This is just a fact….
P.S. Delusion is technically not part of the definition of gender dysphoria which primarily means discomfort, distress or unhappiness with one’s assigned gender… However, I don’t think delusion is a stretch in this particular context… Just my 2 cents, you probably disagree. Just because someone feels uncomfortable with their gender–which is their right as a human being–I don’t have to also affirm, support or agree with their “dysphoria” or discomfort.
Jon: I would honestly like your opinion on this. We can both agree that we should be sympathetic towards someone with “gender dysphoria,” right? And I am willing to empathize that an individual struggling with their gender is going through a great deal of emotional and psychological turmoil (which is obviously, very difficult). Now, do you think that I should be forced to also call that same individual by the gender he identifies with? I mean, they are struggling with discomfort and other issues relating to their gender, however, should I really be forced or compelled to agree with them? Don’t I also have the right to disagree with their assertions? Is this hateful? I am genuinely curious to know your opinion. I am not trolling.
I am not a medical professional, Augustine, and you are correct you actually appear to know more on this subject than I do. I wasn’t trying to provide or encourage a psychology lesson though, I honestly was just trying to change his attitude from one of attacking someone else for no reason. There’s a real lack of respect to these individuals on this message board, and it’s completely needless and silly. A good deal of the people on IJ (Specifically people like Jack, Jax, Perplexed) have made very ignorant, transphobic and often homophobic comments in response to these articles. You’re allowed to believe what you want, but if you’re going to spread intolerance on a public forum these are the kinds of responses you should be prepared for.
Honestly I understand your position, and I don’t think you have to conform to something you don’t believe in to make the other person comfortable, but you can offer them the respect of a “Them/they” instead of blatantly disregarding their feelings with a “Him/her” in opposition to what they’re presenting. If you truly don’t believe a transgender woman is a woman that’s your belief, but to refer to them as “him” is disrespectful to something important to them, why not just say they or them?
Jon, I appreciate your comments and your response. I think we can definitely agree that people deserve respect, regardless of whether or not we agree with them. I also agree that we shouldn’t ever go out of our way to arbitrarily offend people (that is a fool’s errand if there ever was one). Thank you for reading and responding in kind.
Thank you as well! It’s a rare treat to have a discussion with someone on this board of a differing opinion but who can respectfully have that discussion.
I’m interested to know how you would classify an individual with Androgen insensitivity syndrome?
AIS is a disorder where a developing fetus is resistant to male hormones, so never develops into a male, instead grows and is born female. Although their genetics is XY.
Woman? Man? Trans? Should be able to compete?
I have no opinion on that what so ever. Never even know it was a a thing.
FFA,
That’s the real point on trans and gender identity.. Most people won’t force you or fight your opinion on gender, but at the very least it’s well worth reading into various forms to understand its not always black and white.
??? you may very well be right. What I dont need is some random internet stranger branding me a bigot cause I got the wrong pronoun. That special brand of McCarthyism – you dont agree with me so you are what I say you are…
To be honest, I have no intention of becoming more educated on this subject. My gay friends are respectful of me not being gay.I am respectful of them being gay. They dont push their way on me and I don’t push my way on them. I have found my comfort zone on this subject. If that makes me a bigot, then so be it.
Nope
I fully support this lawsuit. Additionally, I’m going to be entering the contest. Although I am a 73 year old, 220 pound grandma, I identify as a svelte 18 year old 108 pound, 5’10 blond with Celine Dion’s voice. I’m sure I’m going to win, and if I don’t, I will sue those bigots!
Seriously, this is a discussion topic??? A pageant with transgenders is akin to a bad 30’s sci fi pic. Bottom line is that Miss/Mrs anything pageants are held for men, not women. Granted that most men do not want to watch pageants anyway but if we do we don’t want TG’s parading around hoping we enjoy their display of plastic surgery and hormone injections.
This entire TG episode was set up only for law suits and its time that the courts put a stop to these travesties.