The point is Edward Liddy is the former President and CEO of the “Good Hands People.” As the newly appointed chief officer of AIG he should have known that this would “make the news.” However, instead of being proactive he is now conducting “damage control.” The insurance industry has always been and always will be, focused on Profits over People. Wake up AMERICA!
Most of us are not bitter nor uninfomred – we see $85 billion of government money going to private company that doesn’t deserve the help. And their getting another $36 billion loan. Didn’t they learn anything from 2005. I’m sure the resort has a sales incentive program and I would bet it operates better than those of the insurance industry – I hope their AIG check clears and they reward their employees fairly. As for rewarding top talent – what top talent? Top talent produces $85 billion, not stick their hand out for it. Too bad the government didn’t just “get over” AIG. And maybe AIG should “get over” cooing over producers and change the way they do business. You have to make money to spend it. Paying for sales rewards – that comes out of profits. Plenty of companies in various indutries know how to do this. Are you in business to give away fleeting rewards that are over by the time you check out, or are you in business to provide service/product and earn a profit? Attracting and retaining real top talent requires more than a weekend getaway and gimmicky gifts – you can win that stuff at a charity fundraiser. True talent finds value in their work/product/service, customer satisfaction, maintaining quality work and business relationships, upholding the integrity their industry, working for people and companies they respect.
Since we own you we will tell you what to do and what you can spend………pay us back with interest and you can do what you want…-The US tax payer otherwise known as the savior to AIG insurance
If it was a good business idea to reward the sales people before the bail out, then it makes good business sense to reward the sales people when tax payer dollars are at stake. Sales people bring in profits!
How about ALL the support people? Where would your sales people be without them? Sales brings in income, not necessarily profits. It’s the people that do the work that create the profits.
EVERYONE CAN BE REPLACED – AIG INCLUDED. Your reward should already be in your pay and bonus, which should include every employee. If you don’t need support staff then don’t hire them – take the time you spend at a resort to do the work yourself. I’m sure people paying those premiums like to know their premium pays for your spa treatment. And if you’re such a top producer – produce more so you won’t need a bailout!
most of you apparently aren’t familiar with running a sales oriented operation and haveing sales contest to reward top producers. these top 100 salespersons no doubt made the company many millions of dollars by qualifying for this “reward”. they no doubt were participating in a sales contest where they were promised, probably months back, that if they produces “X” amount of business they would receive this reward. it was an incentive to place business with AIG that they probably could have placed elsewhere – but the marketing people at AIG correctly decided it was a good business decision to increase their business. it would have cost the life company far more in future sales by not following thru with the promised rewards for excellence done by these salesmen.
When all those people that complain about profitability that were using sales to outrun losses instead of proper underwriting have gone on & left destruction in their wake, who do you think gets the dirty end of the stick?? …..exactly!
Most insurance companies do business the same way and with insurance being a necessary evil there is not much differentiation. Justifying extravagant rewards programs as ‘that’s how sales’ works is just a lame excuse. Try providing a higher quality product/service, hiring better employees and providing quality training to retain them – then you can have higher sales. If you’re in sales then sell, and if you want to enjoy the luxuries the sell more and pay for it out of your higher ‘earned’ commission. Rewards programs just invite corruption – steering business to the carrier that treats you/the agent the best and never mind what is best for the consummer. The insurance industry is viewed by outsiders so negatively for good reason. Neither the carriers or the agents care about the insured who is putting down the money. You do your job for two reasons 1) money, 2) you like what you do – if you’re lucky you can claim both. If you’re selling you’ll make money, if you enjoy it you’ll probably make more money. If you’re only looking for the ‘extras’ maybe you should find another line of work. If an agent is steering business to a carrier to get to the top of the ‘rewards’ list, are either the carrier or the agent doing right by the insured and getting them the best policy for the fairest price? Business is simple when you take out the BS – sell product or service for more than it costs you to provide. To increase sales, provide better product/service. Pay “all” of your emplyees on a fair scale and put the profits back into keeping your business afloat, especially in down times, so you you don’t have to suddenly scream for help$$$$. If your’re going to be greedy, pay for it yourself and you won’t have to justify it with lame execuses while trampling on the backs of others – the average hard working employees who live honestly and fairly off of what their paycheck provides.
Most of you simply are bitter, uninformed or both. I cannot think of one sales organization that does not have incentive trips for top producers. The resort where the (crime) took place has sales incentive groups in Sun – Wed and Wed-Sunday weekly. Just get over it, there are and will continue to be sales incentive trips until the end of time. Please don’t get me wrong, some of the hierarchy deserve anything they may get, but it is unreasonable to chastise any sales organization for recognizing top talent. From the costs involved, this isn’t really that that lavish, I’ve been to a few that could curl some of you hair.
********.
Last time I checked the United States owns 79.9% of AIG + the additional money we gave them yesterday. I sell and I understand incentive etc. There needs to be more governance within that company. Transparency to the people of the US. Maybe take a fraction of the money to have commission comprised of outside AIG people, insurance and non insurance to see what is going on there. Have a little faith in Liddy though, he is a deal maker, read about him a bit and what he did for Sears/Allstate.
Sales people are rewarded by their commissions yet companies continue to use the antiquated “perks” of kissing producers fat as ses every year for doing their job. I work in claims and have been asked to attend a couple of these goat races under the guise of being a resource to answer questions at “information sessions”. These producer trips are a joke.They’re truly unnecessary and disgusting. For a few days, a bunch of entitled salespeople gorge themselves with food and drink, play gold, go the the spa, and pretend they’re important. Nobody shows up at the information sessions anyway. In this economy, producers should be damn glad they have products to sell.
While I see your point, Producer, don’t you think all the negative publicity as a result of the trip has hurt AIG more? Yes, these trips are part of agreements, but they could have issued a notice stating that because of current circumstances, it would be cancelled this year. I think everyone would have understood and it would have saved them this headache in the long run.
I agree with you that the junket was the appropriate reward to offer the life producers. There is nothing unusual or unethical there. And don’t forget that AIG got a loan, and with a loan, the borrower can do as he pleases so long as it is paid back as agreed. This was just congressional leaders making headlines; they don’t understand the difference between the good operations at AIG and the uncollateralized credit swaps that affected the whole organization. The insurance sectors should and will continue with business as usual; contests like these are part of all P & C and life ops; and P & C and life all are required to keep reserves and remain well capitalized by law. There is nothing rotten here except someone trying to make others look bad without looking too far for the bad cheese…
Stat guy is on target, just as referenced previously, bitter and/or uninformed are those that rush to judgement without any rational thought and as far as congress, presidential candidates or the mainstreet media that continue to insist that this was an executive retreat are off the mark. From industrial paper sales people right down to mary kay, they all provide incentive trips to top performers, it is standard business practice.
Producer and Stat Guy are right on. And remember, this took place BEFORE the huge loan.
Even if they had cancelled the outing, do you really think the resort would have refunded any of the money? The resort reserved a huge part of their property for this and it had been reserved for quite awhile. They would have wanted to be reimbursed for business lost.
If you are reading Insurance Journal, then you are probably in insurance and understand how this all works. These top producers bring in millions for AIG and other carriers (who also have reward programs similar).
Not everyone who posts on this site is in insurance. Some are just insurance company haters who like to post things critical of the industry. This whole thing is just grandstanding by our fine and upstanding congresspersons. They don’t hold real jobs so they don’t understand how the real world actually works.
You work your 8 hour day. Top producers spend money out of their own pocket, work 60 to 70 hour weeks are are usually in the top 5 or 10 percent of the sales force. If it was not for them you would not even have a job. Why aren’t you in sales? Oh yea, those who can sell – sell. Those who can’t manage (or work in claims).
What part of “loan” do people not understand. AIG is to pay this money back with interest and at a much higher interest rate than all the high-risk people who obtained mortgagees that should’t have! The idea that the American taxpayer should have a say in what goes on is the same as your mortgage co. telling you what you can do in your home. Because if they loan money on it, apparently “They Own it”. How would you fell if your mortgage company came to you and said no parties in your house because it could reduce the value of the home “I” own.
All of you that are posting this outrageous comments – hope to see you back here with comments when the loan is paid off WITH INTEREST! Of course we may never know how much interest the Feds make off this as that wouldn’t be good press, would it!
Media madness and everyone jumping on the wagon. So pathetic how everyone just quote and believe everything they read. By the way, this buy out is really a buy in. AIG is going to pay crazy interest. If we keep on making it miserable for the employees of AIG to work there then we will lose the taxpayer investment. When we borrow money and pay interest, do you want people telling you that they “own” you until you pay it off???
To: Hmmm
Yes they own your house, but do they come knocking on your door or protest when you buy your kids new clothes or video games or if you went out to a nice dinner for your anniversary?
If you don’t want to answer for the expenditures or the following criticisms – I suggest that you don’t ask for the American tax payers money, to bail out you obviously poor management decisions.
“How about ALL the support people? Where would your sales people be without them? Sales brings in income, not necessarily profits. It’s the people that do the work that create the profits.”
Amen!!!! BTW…I am a sales person. Go figure. The main point here is that this country is way too greedy and has a overblown sense of entitlement.
You get PAID for selling…what makes anyone think they deserve anything more than a paycheck? That is what the foot-soldiers are told by many industries.
“Support staff is needed, I simply said they’re easier to replace than a top producer.”
Really. Do you know how quick a bad support person can LOOSE your accounts? The pool for insurance talent is dwindling. Yet many support people I know are getting ridiculous offers for salary. Top people are indeed leaving, leaving the agency with a poor staff and poor retention.
All of you must be Obama supporters. Who cares about the trip. All I care about is that the federal government owns 80% of the worlds largest insurance company. Welcome to your new federal health insurance company. Get ready to pay your premiums on your federal tax returns.
“Most insurance companies do business the same way and with insurance being a necessary evil there is not much differentiation. Justifying extravagant rewards programs as ‘that’s how sales’ works is just a lame excuse.”
I for one will NOT write with a company just because they offer rewards. I am not a damn DOG, I do not need treats for behaving. I sell my best companies and thus retain my clients at a good level. (I do P&C, BTW)
I have purposely NOT sold AIG because their rates suck and their attitude sucks. I have passed on the $25 Gift Check Programs from companies I thought inferior to other that did not NEED to run contests to beg for business.
We need to think about what is good and right and not about how to line our pockets all the time.
If any of you are in insurance sales or have even made a living at sales, the commisons are not the only thing that motivates us to sell a product. If you give a sales staff a monthly salary that he/she can survive on what motivation do they have to become the best? If the independent sales agent is the sales staff of AIG then AIG has a responsibility to it’s shareholders to modivate it’s sales staff. I would venture to say the amount of money spent on this was far less than the lost time spent talking at the water cooler or surfing the internet each day by the office staff. Look, it takes a special type of person to make sales, it takes special types of rewards. Without sales, AIG is dead and all the office staff has no jobs! Who is the flea and who is the dof?
We have a Republican president therefore this all goes back to George Bush being the one to blame. This was all caused by the evil Bush and his Republican cronies, wasn’t it? Anytime the press thinks Republicans had anything to do with anything heads roll. Why not this time? What is being covered up? What group are they protecting?
Payola in the market place. Spiffs, trips, cash under the table, booze, broads. Anyone who took these things under the guise of being a top producer should have to repay the company. Customers are better and more honestly served when the person assisting with the sale was not bought off like a $10. *****. Companies and their ***** producers should be punished.
I have to respond to Admin’s post. Here is what I take exception over.
Neither the carriers or the agents care about the insured who is putting down the money. You do your job for two reasons 1) money, 2) you like what you do.
To make the assumption that commissioned sales people don’t care about the insured is ludicrious (sp). Yes, there are sales people who are like that but I’m willing to bet that none of them made the trip with AIG. Many times I’ve made less commission to do what is right for the client. I also saw the same tired old argument that I hear from support people all the time. “You agents make too much money”. My responce is “How would you like to not know how much your check is going to be next month?”. Jump into sales Admin, the water is warm and opportunity is knocking.
The AIG company involved and ALL of their insurance companies have been posting profits even as the parent & financial side of the business has tanked. This agency meeting was nothing that any other insurance company does to encourage agents to give them good business, particulary when the company is making money. I see no problem with an insurance company offering incentives for business. The cost of the junket is built into the cost of product. It seems to me that most of you whining about the trip are those of you who are jealous that your position does not enable you to attend these, i.e. claims guy, CSR etc. I have never attended one either, but I am not going to whine about.
When sales people don’t sell, they don’t get paid. Support staff get a salary or hourly rate. I’ve done both in my lifetime. Salary/ hourly compensation is safe, secure and therefore less lucrative in the long run. Salesmen are paid based on what have you done for me lately. If the answer is not much, that’s what you’ll be paid. Most people can’t handle the uncertainty.
Insurance sales people that don’t sell the best product and don’t provide the best service don’t last long.
Any for profit business that claims to always sell the best product available at the cheapest price that they can possibly survive on is blowing smoke.
Enough whining already. This is a business just like any other. If a bank or insurance company fails, then they fail. That’s capitalism. No bailouts needed. Someone will be there to take their places.
Soild education, but no common sense being exercised here. The CEO states the plans were made before the Fed loan them the money. Further, no HO exec attended and only 10 employee representing the company attended. the business called the house which is run my many citizens sees this entire matter an a hugh lack of common sense. At The House – if vacation plans are made to Hawaii and the extended family is invited, then before the trip date mom and/or dad loses their job, and the bills can’t be paid, then the vacation is canceled regardless of who’s invited. Why? Simple, the money is needed in a more critical area. Son, daugther will chip with their allowance,credit cards go into the drawer, etc. Common sense. I am sure the brokers would have understood canceling the event given the circumstances or are they AIG.
I was watching the debate on Tuesday and Obama brought this up as an issue. If he is going to attack people and companies without any investigation, we don’t need him running the country.
“It seems to me that most of you whining about the trip are those of you who are jealous that your position does not enable you to attend these, i.e. claims guy, CSR etc.”
Wrong as far as I am concerned. I am a producer and I never liked what AIG had to sell or the prices it sold it at.
I have turned down these trips in the past when I had won them as I can think of nothing I like LESS than hanging around with insurance people. My motivation is helping the client and getting my fair share.
“I was watching the debate on Tuesday and Obama brought this up as an issue. If he is going to attack people and companies without any investigation, we don’t need him running the country.”
Kinda like the investigating McCain?Pale-in did when they attacked Obama for palin’ around with terrorists?” Look closely at who is attacking here.
Is this off limits as an issue then? Cannot even bring it up?
Lets stop all compensation above a set hourly wage. No more Starbucks or car wash tiping. No more restaurent tiping, bonus or profit sharing. We should all be even with each other. It sounds like my kids sport programs, everybody gets a trophy becouse we don’t want to make someones kid feel bad becouse they did poorly or did not put in the extra effort to get better.Take the risk of no pay check for a commison and perks. Worker bee’s unite!
Lets stop all compensation above a set hourly wage. No more Starbucks or car wash tiping. No more restaurent tiping, bonus or profit sharing. We should all be even with each other. It sounds like my kids sport programs, everybody gets a trophy becouse we don’t want to make someones kid feel bad becouse they did poorly or did not put in the extra effort to get better.Take the risk of no pay check for a commison and perks. Worker bee’s unite!
For an insurance mag and board designed for the insurance industry, there are never any informed people commenting here. Sure your pissed…but know your topic and business before you start making silly comments
Pres. Barrack Hussein Obama will make everyone equal. No more problems, no more trips. The man has a lot of knowledge about what got us into this mess. He likely feels guilty already about how much he benefited from this mess financially. We can trust he will now do the right thing to vindicate himself.
Can’t we?
“Pres. Barrack Hussein Obama will make everyone equal. No more problems, no more trips. The man has a lot of knowledge about what got us into this mess. He likely feels guilty already about how much he benefited from this mess financially. We can trust he will now do the right thing to vindicate himself.
Can’t we?”
Aw! It is nice to see we accept the ‘special’ here too. Really said nothing at all…but at least he/she made an effort.
I would prefer a President that will bring everyone up to make us equal, not down.
Mr. P., attacking in debates has become common. Obama has yet to give anything concrete as to what he plans to do; all is vague. This incident with AIG is pretty black & white. McCain attacking the dems policy is a gray area because of the vagueness.
Obama has the inside angle on this mess. John McCain is so stupid he was trying to enact rules to call attention to what was happening and prevent it from continuing.
Its nice to know that we are subsidizing this trip so that aig can charge higher premiums on their insurance policies so the agents can make more money. You cannot have it both ways. if we are giving aig 120 billion dollars they should not be spending it on incentive trips for anyone.
Having attended several of these types of events over the years, I do hope that the company intends to issue IRS Form 1099’s to each producer who attended. The companies that hosted each one that I attended certainly did.
Your comparison doesn’t hold up. Ever plan a meeting for 100 people at a resort?
There are blocked rooms (if not filled the meeting sponsor gets to pay anyway) Meals not consumed same thing, etc, etc. A family usually does not book/guarantee 100 rooms. Get the drift?
y’all make it sound as though any and all brokers/independent contractors place business with one specific carrier because they might win a trip. Personally, I work very hard each and every day and always act in the clients best interest. In each and every new business opportunity I will provide a variety of options and make the appropriate recomendtions that both represent the clients best interests and that are the most cost effective. At the end of the day, this brings both parties piece of mind and will generally lead to additional new business opportunities based on this new clients favorable experience. This is called professionalism and integrity. If this hard work and effort is recognized by any specific carrier and I’m in their top 1% I would certainly entertain their extended gratitude in the form of an incentive trip. In this way, I am in the company of other top performers like myself and there is always something valuable learned during the process.
You are 100% correct. AIG pulling out of Half Moon Bay will cost them plenty. The hotel cannot find a short term booking, so AIG is on the hook anyway for virtually all the room night costs not to mention banquet projected costs, and in their jesture of good faith, if you had a non refundable airfare, they will most likely pick this cost up as well, which was not included. In all probabability, costing them more than if the event took place.
Look the real issue at hand here is whether these trips help produce more business. We know that agents can be swayed to one carrier or another based on perks so if AIG spends $1 to earn $2, then that’s just good business practice. All of us do this every day in the form of advertising. If, however, the trips are fluff that do not result in extra revenue, then it’s probably something that they should do away with until they are profitable.
Until we have those numbers in front of us, this conversation is pointless.
I have jumped into the water and I’m enjoying it very well. I used my own savings and started my own business. Every penny I make comes from what I sell. I also do all of my own support work. I plan to hire in the next year and know that I need to sell even more in order to pay above the median so I can have a true hard working team member. I will have enough on hand to pay a full two year’s salary with comparable benefits. I plan to always pay fairly. I will sacrifice and work harder so I don’t have the problem of people questioning if they are fairly compensated. And I love it when the waters get rough – makes for a more exciting ride.
In 2004, Republicans including George Bush, John McCain and some Democrats warned Congress on the policy of giving loans to people who financially were not able to pay them back.
Chris Dowd and Barney Frank blocked the investigation of of these unqualified loan practices in their commitees. They made a big deal about how sound Fannie May and Freddie Mac loan practices were. They said that this was political and Republicans were only trying to hurt poor people.
Chris Dowd, Barney Frank and Barach Obama received the most money of all in Congress from Fannie and Freddie.
This all on record but the bias of the media will not report it.
Congratulations on taking the leap. I wish you all the best. I just took exception to the comment about agents not doing the right thing by their customers. Doing what is best for the customer isn’t always the most profitable in the short run…but it is in the long run.
You obviously do not write business with AIG or you would know that they are not offering “higher” premiums. They are extremely underpriced for the majority of the business they write! They’ve been buying their business for years – and I’m sure they will continue to do so. And the claims will start rolling in, but no worries… We’re here to help them out!
ok, this is a bit off topic, but I heard it this morning on the radio and it made a lot of sense.
BAR STOOL ECONOMICS
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.”Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20,”declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,” but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
Well if you really want to make this and us vs. them, you should be very happy and content, knowing that it is the arch-conservative paragons of virtue, the republican party and it’s leader GW Bush who brings our economy to it’s knees….who else is at the helm of the ship of state? Who else SHOULD be blamed for all of these wonderful eight years of prosperity? they like to place blame and take credit, now the shoes are on the other foot. I’d rather take my chances with the young, inexperienced than the old, well-traveled, in-the-know business type who ran this into the ground….
A flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada
has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased
patrols to stop the illegal immigration.
The possibility of a McCain/Palin election is prompting the exodus
among left-leaning citizens who fear they’ll soon be required to hold
down a job, hunt, pray, and agree with Bill O’Reilly.
Canadian border farmers say it’s not uncommon to see dozens of
sociology professors, animal rights activists and Unitarians crossing
their fields at night. I went out to milk the cows the other day, and
there was a Hollywood producer huddled in the barn,’ said Manitoba
farmer Red Greenfield, whose acreage borders North Dakota. The
producer was cold, exhausted and hungry.
‘He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken.
When I gave him some fresh warm goat milk he tossed his cookies and
left. Didn’t even get a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?’
In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher
fences, but the liberals dug under them. So he tried installing
speakers that blare Rush Limbaugh across the fields. ‘Not real
effective,’ he said. ‘The liberals still got through but many were
crying as they ran through the corn fields’
Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet
liberals near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station
wagons, drive them across the border and leave them to fend for
themselves. ‘A lot of these people are not prepared for rugged
conditions,’ an Ontario border patrolman said. ‘I found one carload
without a drop of drinking water and wearing sandals. ‘They did have
a nice little Napa Valley cabernet, though.’
When liberals are caught, they’re sent back across the border, often
wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors
have been circulating about the McCain administration establishing
re-education camps in which liberals will be forced to shoot wolves
from airplanes, deny evolution, and actually work for a living. So
much job training is needed it is cheaper to just put them in a motel
and provide room service. At least they don’t break equipment.
In recent days, liberals have turned to sometimes ingenious ways of
crossing the border. Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on
bus trips to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a
half-dozen young vegans disguised in powdered wigs, Canadian
immigration authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the
supposed senior-citizen passengers on Red Skelton and Rosemary
Clooney hits to prove they were alive in the ’50s. ‘If they can’t
identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we get
suspicious about their age,’ an official said.
Canadian citizens have complained that these illegal immigrants are
creating an organic-broccoli shortage and renting all the good Susan
Sarandon movies.
‘I feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just
can’t support them,’ an Ottawa resident said.
‘How many lawyers, art-history and English majors does one country
need?
So many of you ‘taxpayers’ are so high and mighty on your AIG bash-wagon (via sensational media headlines and politicians making inaccurate/unchecked statments that truly rival the nat’l enquirer and TMZ) – did you ever ponder this? Think about how our congressman and senators live life daily ‘as elected by taxpayer’ civil servants. 1st class airline travel on a regular basis (if not by private jet), 1st class luncheons at the nicest establishments daily, huge house (yes, houses), nice cars, nice clothes, wasted spending bills without finding ways to cut expenses… Price that out line by line, politician by politician… THAT IS YOUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS AT-WORK, EVERYDAY, YEAR AFTER YEAR, for the ‘average’ politician (aka fatcat). Do you really find that acceptable while joe public is trying hard just to pay the bills every month? Of course it is not okay and we all know this taxpayer waste is going on to the nth degree, but joe public blissfully turns his/her head because the issue is SO much bigger and harder to change than AIG’s issue (why would the fatcats change what makes their job desirable and would take away those perks). AIG’s $440k business spend is not even a drop-in that political spend bucket each month. Ponder this…when did becoming an elected offical provide a level of stardom and wealth that rivals the biggest entertainers out there?? If this AIG sales practice enrages you so much, HOW CAN YOU NOT be enraged at the politicians who created this mess and are deperately trying to stay out of headlines by pointing fingers and having congressional hearings with these companies (acting like the companies are what brought america to it’s knees – pleeasssee).
Do us all a favor and become better informed before you start bashing and throwing around tax-payer waste rhetoric. AIG was, and IS, the best at insurance (their core business) in the world, and they are making a good and fair profit (93% combined ratio thru 2nd qtr). They create 2 new industry products a week! Many of you in this posting chain said it right – AIG has a line of credit with the Fed/Treasury and is NOT run by joe public, and will emerge from this short-term with the taxpayers receiving their full $85B + extortion-level interest rates and with some much-needed shedding of non-insurance assets. (Worst -case, AIG is liquidated as a company and uses their $1Trillion in Assets to pay off the taxpayer-provided line of credit). No harm. AIG is a just a big company in a capitalist environment suffering short-term liquidity in a unprecented capital/credit freeze and a derivatives issue valued at over $56Trillion globally – so let them run their business and deal with their issues internally as all the others get to do. (Trust me, $440k is a tiny check for this type of event for most mid-sized companies, and yes, they ALL do it; lucky for the others, they are not in the headlines – yet).
Sorry for the long-winded opinion. I just ask that you think about what we as taxpayers put up with everyday in politics and put this AIG $440k producer event in perspective, and then in the closet. It is a NON-ISSUE in the business world. And tax-payers ARE NOT going to foot the bill for it. Can’t say the same for the politicians paychecks. Thanks and let’s all hope the fear-mongers driving this stock crash get off the bus sooner than later.
Bullseye. as I’ve referenced, bitter and uninformed are the majority of the posters, I’ve read them all and am amazed, but keeping in mind that the media controls public perception, the way this trip was spun, an uninformed person would most likely have this attitude. $440K is nothing. Four and Five Star resorts have similarly sized groups in and out weekly on three day events and generally account for about 80% of the average week day occupancy and they are not all insurance groups, just sales incentive groups,so this is standard everyday business. The Half Moon Bay event is a very nice meeting/incentive event. I understand the cancellation of the Half Moon Bay event as a PR move but also know the biggest irony with the cancellation is AIG still being responsible for room, tax and gratuities for all room nights, projected banquet revenues, including gratuities and even though transportation costs were not included, most likely non refundable airline costs for attendees due to the cancellation AIG will pay for the event without the benefit of the good will it was intended to provided. Everybody involved looses, but in the public’s eye, the public has won because they believe that AIG was caught red handed spending the publics money six days after they got a government loan. yea they got the government money thought lets get our executives together, go to Southern California and spend $440K on ourselves at a resort. They had such a blast, they booked another executive junket up to Northern California a few weeks latter but caught this time. LOL
I for one do not appreciate losing all that money out of my 401k .. so those people who make way to much money anyway go to a retreat and be pampered .. i work to hard for that money .. some of those people should put in a 12 hour shift somewhere and find out what real work is .. i really think those people should be fired and having to repay our of their own pockets what they spend on those retreats .. or what ever else they call it .. i am very furious over this ..
why do they need to use a resort .. why not a training room .. like at my job .. we all have to pile into a small hot room to hear what idiots have to say .. what makes them (sales man) any better then us ..
Look folks your next president and his friends at Acorn are not any different than this mess at AIG. Why the heck should anyone at AIG get punished if this idiot is going to get elected. You get the government, businesses, and life you allow. 69,000 votes added in one Ohio county alone. What B.S.? And we are pissed off about AIG taking their Top Producers and given the Golden Boys and Girls treatment for a few days. WHooo!
Members of the left-wing activist group Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (Acorn) had a quick and predictable response to this week’s raid of their Nevada offices by authorities investigating a possible massive voter-registration fraud scheme.
The Las Vegas Sun reports that Acorn volunteer Frank Beaty immediately claimed the raid, which removed computers and files from the group’s offices, was a conspiracy designed to prevent the registration of new voters. Acorn’s national chief Bertha Lewis called the raid “a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than [to] discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible vote to the polls.”
Reverting to the rhetoric of the 1960s voting rights struggle in the South may be politically useful, but it bears precious little resemblance to the reality of Acorn today. The group has constantly faced charges it mistreats its employees and even broke up their internal efforts to unionize their workplace.
Clark County Registrar of Voters Larry Lomax told the Sun that Acorn has been registering voters in Las Vegas since January and “we started having problems with them almost immediately.” His staff met with Acorn and was offered promises that fraudulent registrations would no longer be turned in. “But those controls weren’t sufficient,” Mr. Lomax said.
Indeed, the more his office and that of Nevada’s Secretary of State looked into Acorn’s effort, the more worried they became. Jason Anderson rose to the rank of supervisor in Acorn even though he was a convicted felon. Other employees had served time for identity theft. Another former inmate who worked for Acorn told authorities his co-workers were “lazy crack heads.”
Acorn’s activities are under investigation or suspicion in a dozen states, with one of its workers indicted just last week in Wisconsin. Perhaps the Nevada raid will spur authorities elsewhere to dig down and conclude their investigations by Election Day — before Acorn can do even more damage to the integrity of the vote.
Obama fundraiser, convicted of fraud, spills beans By MIKE ROBINSON, Associated Press Writer
Sat Oct 11, 11:44 AM ET
Jailed political fundraiser Antoin “Tony” Rezko, the Chicago real estate developer who helped launch Barack Obama on his political career, is whispering secrets to federal prosecutors about corruption in Illinois and the political fallout could be explosive.
Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich, whose administration faces multiple federal investigations over how it handed out jobs and money with advice from Rezko, is considered the most vulnerable.
Rezko also was friendly with Obama — offering him a job when he finished law school, funding his earliest political campaigns and purchasing a lot next to his house. But based on the known facts, charges so far and testimony at Rezko’s trial, there’s no indication there’ll be a so-called “October surprise” that could hurt the Democratic presidential nominee — even though Rezko says prosecutors are pressing him for dirt about Obama.
“I think this strikes fear into the Blagojevich administration and the Statehouse Democrats but not into the Obama campaign,” says state Sen. Kirk Dillard, R-Westmont, a John McCain delegate to the GOP convention but an old friend of Obama.
Rezko, 53, a real estate developer, was convicted in June of scheming to use his clout with the Blagojevich administration to squeeze $7 million in kickbacks out of a contractor and seven money management firms seeking to do business with the state.
Within two months, Rezko was seen in U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald’s office, along with his attorneys.
There has been no official confirmation that Rezko is talking but his sentencing has been postponed indefinitely and both sides say they are going to “engage in discussions that could affect their sentencing postures.”
“They never would have delayed the sentencing if he weren’t talking — it’s proof positive,” said Jay Stewart, executive director of the Better Government Association of Chicago.
In addition, attorneys say federal investigators have been questioning Blagojevich contributions around the state using information that only Rezko could have supplied. Finally, courthouse personnel requesting anonymity because grand jury probes are secret said Rezko has been repeatedly brought from his cell to the U.S. attorney’s office to talk to prosecutors.
Rezko could have a lot to tell. He has raised millions of dollars in campaign money for many Illinois politicians and according to federal prosecutors used his clout to control appointments to state boards.
Obama has sent to charity $159,000 that Rezko raised for his campaigns for the state legislature, the House and the Senate. Rezko raised nothing for Obama’s White House run.
Obama’s name came up in testimony at the trial four times, twice in connection with an obscure legislative memo, as a guest at a Rezko party and when defense attorney Joseph Duffy told jurors his client was a friend of the senator.
None of the witnesses accused the Democratic nominee for president of doing anything improper. In June, Duffy told the Chicago Tribune that prosecutors had not asked him a single question about Obama.
But questions concerning Obama’s relationship with Rezko linger, particularly over Rezko’s role in the purchase of the Obamas’ home.
The two have known each other for years, starting when Rezko offered Obama a job after he graduated from Harvard Law School in 1991. Obama didn’t take it, but a friendship developed.
The men talked politics frequently and occasionally dined together with their wives.
In 2005, the Obamas paid $1.65 million for their home near the University of Chicago. The sellers wanted a parcel they owned next door to sell on the same day, and Rezko’s wife, Rita, was the buyer. At the request of the Obamas, Mrs. Rezko later sold them a 10-foot strip of land to enlarge their lot. They paid $104,500.
The deal took place while Rezko was under investigation and when details of the cozy relationship surfaced, Obama said it was a “bonehead” error to have asked for the additional land because it looked like he was getting a favor.
Back in 1999 the NY times reported on the pending financial crisis due to social engineering due to giving people loans even if they were unqualified to receive them and were unlikely to pay them back. (subprime loans!!)
This was done as a result of supposed discrimination in lending practices. Institued in the Clinton administration due to pressure from the Democrats, ACCORN and other similar organizations. Why aren’t Democratic heads rolling?
The point is Edward Liddy is the former President and CEO of the “Good Hands People.” As the newly appointed chief officer of AIG he should have known that this would “make the news.” However, instead of being proactive he is now conducting “damage control.” The insurance industry has always been and always will be, focused on Profits over People. Wake up AMERICA!
Most of us are not bitter nor uninfomred – we see $85 billion of government money going to private company that doesn’t deserve the help. And their getting another $36 billion loan. Didn’t they learn anything from 2005. I’m sure the resort has a sales incentive program and I would bet it operates better than those of the insurance industry – I hope their AIG check clears and they reward their employees fairly. As for rewarding top talent – what top talent? Top talent produces $85 billion, not stick their hand out for it. Too bad the government didn’t just “get over” AIG. And maybe AIG should “get over” cooing over producers and change the way they do business. You have to make money to spend it. Paying for sales rewards – that comes out of profits. Plenty of companies in various indutries know how to do this. Are you in business to give away fleeting rewards that are over by the time you check out, or are you in business to provide service/product and earn a profit? Attracting and retaining real top talent requires more than a weekend getaway and gimmicky gifts – you can win that stuff at a charity fundraiser. True talent finds value in their work/product/service, customer satisfaction, maintaining quality work and business relationships, upholding the integrity their industry, working for people and companies they respect.
Since we own you we will tell you what to do and what you can spend………pay us back with interest and you can do what you want…-The US tax payer otherwise known as the savior to AIG insurance
Not employees… hummmm – testamony to the contrary?
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iCBEplezRU4MUlI3wKRd0IZ9GCgQD93M2DFG0
So you don’t want to persuade us to sell as much life insurance as we can by using a contest.
OK we won’t
Give me a break, they let 100, no sorry, 90 people run amok with the expenses???
Give me a break! AIG still should pay US back. Makes their reputation just a little dirtier
If it was a good business idea to reward the sales people before the bail out, then it makes good business sense to reward the sales people when tax payer dollars are at stake. Sales people bring in profits!
How about ALL the support people? Where would your sales people be without them? Sales brings in income, not necessarily profits. It’s the people that do the work that create the profits.
Yes, the support people are important but it’s much easier to replace a support person than it is to replace a top producer.
EVERYONE CAN BE REPLACED – AIG INCLUDED. Your reward should already be in your pay and bonus, which should include every employee. If you don’t need support staff then don’t hire them – take the time you spend at a resort to do the work yourself. I’m sure people paying those premiums like to know their premium pays for your spa treatment. And if you’re such a top producer – produce more so you won’t need a bailout!
I agree, anyone and everyone can be replaced. Support staff is needed, I simply said they’re easier to replace than a top producer.
most of you apparently aren’t familiar with running a sales oriented operation and haveing sales contest to reward top producers. these top 100 salespersons no doubt made the company many millions of dollars by qualifying for this “reward”. they no doubt were participating in a sales contest where they were promised, probably months back, that if they produces “X” amount of business they would receive this reward. it was an incentive to place business with AIG that they probably could have placed elsewhere – but the marketing people at AIG correctly decided it was a good business decision to increase their business. it would have cost the life company far more in future sales by not following thru with the promised rewards for excellence done by these salesmen.
When all those people that complain about profitability that were using sales to outrun losses instead of proper underwriting have gone on & left destruction in their wake, who do you think gets the dirty end of the stick?? …..exactly!
Most insurance companies do business the same way and with insurance being a necessary evil there is not much differentiation. Justifying extravagant rewards programs as ‘that’s how sales’ works is just a lame excuse. Try providing a higher quality product/service, hiring better employees and providing quality training to retain them – then you can have higher sales. If you’re in sales then sell, and if you want to enjoy the luxuries the sell more and pay for it out of your higher ‘earned’ commission. Rewards programs just invite corruption – steering business to the carrier that treats you/the agent the best and never mind what is best for the consummer. The insurance industry is viewed by outsiders so negatively for good reason. Neither the carriers or the agents care about the insured who is putting down the money. You do your job for two reasons 1) money, 2) you like what you do – if you’re lucky you can claim both. If you’re selling you’ll make money, if you enjoy it you’ll probably make more money. If you’re only looking for the ‘extras’ maybe you should find another line of work. If an agent is steering business to a carrier to get to the top of the ‘rewards’ list, are either the carrier or the agent doing right by the insured and getting them the best policy for the fairest price? Business is simple when you take out the BS – sell product or service for more than it costs you to provide. To increase sales, provide better product/service. Pay “all” of your emplyees on a fair scale and put the profits back into keeping your business afloat, especially in down times, so you you don’t have to suddenly scream for help$$$$. If your’re going to be greedy, pay for it yourself and you won’t have to justify it with lame execuses while trampling on the backs of others – the average hard working employees who live honestly and fairly off of what their paycheck provides.
Most of you simply are bitter, uninformed or both. I cannot think of one sales organization that does not have incentive trips for top producers. The resort where the (crime) took place has sales incentive groups in Sun – Wed and Wed-Sunday weekly. Just get over it, there are and will continue to be sales incentive trips until the end of time. Please don’t get me wrong, some of the hierarchy deserve anything they may get, but it is unreasonable to chastise any sales organization for recognizing top talent. From the costs involved, this isn’t really that that lavish, I’ve been to a few that could curl some of you hair.
********.
Last time I checked the United States owns 79.9% of AIG + the additional money we gave them yesterday. I sell and I understand incentive etc. There needs to be more governance within that company. Transparency to the people of the US. Maybe take a fraction of the money to have commission comprised of outside AIG people, insurance and non insurance to see what is going on there. Have a little faith in Liddy though, he is a deal maker, read about him a bit and what he did for Sears/Allstate.
Sales people are rewarded by their commissions yet companies continue to use the antiquated “perks” of kissing producers fat as ses every year for doing their job. I work in claims and have been asked to attend a couple of these goat races under the guise of being a resource to answer questions at “information sessions”. These producer trips are a joke.They’re truly unnecessary and disgusting. For a few days, a bunch of entitled salespeople gorge themselves with food and drink, play gold, go the the spa, and pretend they’re important. Nobody shows up at the information sessions anyway. In this economy, producers should be damn glad they have products to sell.
While I see your point, Producer, don’t you think all the negative publicity as a result of the trip has hurt AIG more? Yes, these trips are part of agreements, but they could have issued a notice stating that because of current circumstances, it would be cancelled this year. I think everyone would have understood and it would have saved them this headache in the long run.
I agree with you that the junket was the appropriate reward to offer the life producers. There is nothing unusual or unethical there. And don’t forget that AIG got a loan, and with a loan, the borrower can do as he pleases so long as it is paid back as agreed. This was just congressional leaders making headlines; they don’t understand the difference between the good operations at AIG and the uncollateralized credit swaps that affected the whole organization. The insurance sectors should and will continue with business as usual; contests like these are part of all P & C and life ops; and P & C and life all are required to keep reserves and remain well capitalized by law. There is nothing rotten here except someone trying to make others look bad without looking too far for the bad cheese…
Stat guy is on target, just as referenced previously, bitter and/or uninformed are those that rush to judgement without any rational thought and as far as congress, presidential candidates or the mainstreet media that continue to insist that this was an executive retreat are off the mark. From industrial paper sales people right down to mary kay, they all provide incentive trips to top performers, it is standard business practice.
Producer and Stat Guy are right on. And remember, this took place BEFORE the huge loan.
Even if they had cancelled the outing, do you really think the resort would have refunded any of the money? The resort reserved a huge part of their property for this and it had been reserved for quite awhile. They would have wanted to be reimbursed for business lost.
If you are reading Insurance Journal, then you are probably in insurance and understand how this all works. These top producers bring in millions for AIG and other carriers (who also have reward programs similar).
Not everyone who posts on this site is in insurance. Some are just insurance company haters who like to post things critical of the industry. This whole thing is just grandstanding by our fine and upstanding congresspersons. They don’t hold real jobs so they don’t understand how the real world actually works.
Something does not add up here…..
C’mon, lighten up! the broads and booze were terrific for business!!
Eli,
You work your 8 hour day. Top producers spend money out of their own pocket, work 60 to 70 hour weeks are are usually in the top 5 or 10 percent of the sales force. If it was not for them you would not even have a job. Why aren’t you in sales? Oh yea, those who can sell – sell. Those who can’t manage (or work in claims).
What part of “loan” do people not understand. AIG is to pay this money back with interest and at a much higher interest rate than all the high-risk people who obtained mortgagees that should’t have! The idea that the American taxpayer should have a say in what goes on is the same as your mortgage co. telling you what you can do in your home. Because if they loan money on it, apparently “They Own it”. How would you fell if your mortgage company came to you and said no parties in your house because it could reduce the value of the home “I” own.
All of you that are posting this outrageous comments – hope to see you back here with comments when the loan is paid off WITH INTEREST! Of course we may never know how much interest the Feds make off this as that wouldn’t be good press, would it!
Media madness and everyone jumping on the wagon. So pathetic how everyone just quote and believe everything they read. By the way, this buy out is really a buy in. AIG is going to pay crazy interest. If we keep on making it miserable for the employees of AIG to work there then we will lose the taxpayer investment. When we borrow money and pay interest, do you want people telling you that they “own” you until you pay it off???
I borrowed money from my mortgage company a few years ago and I pay interest – yes they do own me (or at least my house) to an extent.
To: Hmmm
Yes they own your house, but do they come knocking on your door or protest when you buy your kids new clothes or video games or if you went out to a nice dinner for your anniversary?
If you don’t want to answer for the expenditures or the following criticisms – I suggest that you don’t ask for the American tax payers money, to bail out you obviously poor management decisions.
“How about ALL the support people? Where would your sales people be without them? Sales brings in income, not necessarily profits. It’s the people that do the work that create the profits.”
Amen!!!! BTW…I am a sales person. Go figure. The main point here is that this country is way too greedy and has a overblown sense of entitlement.
You get PAID for selling…what makes anyone think they deserve anything more than a paycheck? That is what the foot-soldiers are told by many industries.
“Support staff is needed, I simply said they’re easier to replace than a top producer.”
Really. Do you know how quick a bad support person can LOOSE your accounts? The pool for insurance talent is dwindling. Yet many support people I know are getting ridiculous offers for salary. Top people are indeed leaving, leaving the agency with a poor staff and poor retention.
All of you must be Obama supporters. Who cares about the trip. All I care about is that the federal government owns 80% of the worlds largest insurance company. Welcome to your new federal health insurance company. Get ready to pay your premiums on your federal tax returns.
“Most insurance companies do business the same way and with insurance being a necessary evil there is not much differentiation. Justifying extravagant rewards programs as ‘that’s how sales’ works is just a lame excuse.”
I for one will NOT write with a company just because they offer rewards. I am not a damn DOG, I do not need treats for behaving. I sell my best companies and thus retain my clients at a good level. (I do P&C, BTW)
I have purposely NOT sold AIG because their rates suck and their attitude sucks. I have passed on the $25 Gift Check Programs from companies I thought inferior to other that did not NEED to run contests to beg for business.
We need to think about what is good and right and not about how to line our pockets all the time.
If any of you are in insurance sales or have even made a living at sales, the commisons are not the only thing that motivates us to sell a product. If you give a sales staff a monthly salary that he/she can survive on what motivation do they have to become the best? If the independent sales agent is the sales staff of AIG then AIG has a responsibility to it’s shareholders to modivate it’s sales staff. I would venture to say the amount of money spent on this was far less than the lost time spent talking at the water cooler or surfing the internet each day by the office staff. Look, it takes a special type of person to make sales, it takes special types of rewards. Without sales, AIG is dead and all the office staff has no jobs! Who is the flea and who is the dof?
Yeah…and Bush wants to buy banks now and McCain wants to get the governement into the mortgage business.
Obama looks kinda not bad huh? Is this the NEW Republican we are seeing? Big government and all?
lol
Construc–
that is an excellent point. I didn’t think of it that way, but that has helped change my mind about this.
We have a Republican president therefore this all goes back to George Bush being the one to blame. This was all caused by the evil Bush and his Republican cronies, wasn’t it? Anytime the press thinks Republicans had anything to do with anything heads roll. Why not this time? What is being covered up? What group are they protecting?
Payola in the market place. Spiffs, trips, cash under the table, booze, broads. Anyone who took these things under the guise of being a top producer should have to repay the company. Customers are better and more honestly served when the person assisting with the sale was not bought off like a $10. *****. Companies and their ***** producers should be punished.
I have to respond to Admin’s post. Here is what I take exception over.
Neither the carriers or the agents care about the insured who is putting down the money. You do your job for two reasons 1) money, 2) you like what you do.
To make the assumption that commissioned sales people don’t care about the insured is ludicrious (sp). Yes, there are sales people who are like that but I’m willing to bet that none of them made the trip with AIG. Many times I’ve made less commission to do what is right for the client. I also saw the same tired old argument that I hear from support people all the time. “You agents make too much money”. My responce is “How would you like to not know how much your check is going to be next month?”. Jump into sales Admin, the water is warm and opportunity is knocking.
The AIG company involved and ALL of their insurance companies have been posting profits even as the parent & financial side of the business has tanked. This agency meeting was nothing that any other insurance company does to encourage agents to give them good business, particulary when the company is making money. I see no problem with an insurance company offering incentives for business. The cost of the junket is built into the cost of product. It seems to me that most of you whining about the trip are those of you who are jealous that your position does not enable you to attend these, i.e. claims guy, CSR etc. I have never attended one either, but I am not going to whine about.
When sales people don’t sell, they don’t get paid. Support staff get a salary or hourly rate. I’ve done both in my lifetime. Salary/ hourly compensation is safe, secure and therefore less lucrative in the long run. Salesmen are paid based on what have you done for me lately. If the answer is not much, that’s what you’ll be paid. Most people can’t handle the uncertainty.
Insurance sales people that don’t sell the best product and don’t provide the best service don’t last long.
Any for profit business that claims to always sell the best product available at the cheapest price that they can possibly survive on is blowing smoke.
Enough whining already. This is a business just like any other. If a bank or insurance company fails, then they fail. That’s capitalism. No bailouts needed. Someone will be there to take their places.
Soild education, but no common sense being exercised here. The CEO states the plans were made before the Fed loan them the money. Further, no HO exec attended and only 10 employee representing the company attended. the business called the house which is run my many citizens sees this entire matter an a hugh lack of common sense. At The House – if vacation plans are made to Hawaii and the extended family is invited, then before the trip date mom and/or dad loses their job, and the bills can’t be paid, then the vacation is canceled regardless of who’s invited. Why? Simple, the money is needed in a more critical area. Son, daugther will chip with their allowance,credit cards go into the drawer, etc. Common sense. I am sure the brokers would have understood canceling the event given the circumstances or are they AIG.
I was watching the debate on Tuesday and Obama brought this up as an issue. If he is going to attack people and companies without any investigation, we don’t need him running the country.
“It seems to me that most of you whining about the trip are those of you who are jealous that your position does not enable you to attend these, i.e. claims guy, CSR etc.”
Wrong as far as I am concerned. I am a producer and I never liked what AIG had to sell or the prices it sold it at.
I have turned down these trips in the past when I had won them as I can think of nothing I like LESS than hanging around with insurance people. My motivation is helping the client and getting my fair share.
“I was watching the debate on Tuesday and Obama brought this up as an issue. If he is going to attack people and companies without any investigation, we don’t need him running the country.”
Kinda like the investigating McCain?Pale-in did when they attacked Obama for palin’ around with terrorists?” Look closely at who is attacking here.
Is this off limits as an issue then? Cannot even bring it up?
Riiiiight….
Lets stop all compensation above a set hourly wage. No more Starbucks or car wash tiping. No more restaurent tiping, bonus or profit sharing. We should all be even with each other. It sounds like my kids sport programs, everybody gets a trophy becouse we don’t want to make someones kid feel bad becouse they did poorly or did not put in the extra effort to get better.Take the risk of no pay check for a commison and perks. Worker bee’s unite!
Lets stop all compensation above a set hourly wage. No more Starbucks or car wash tiping. No more restaurent tiping, bonus or profit sharing. We should all be even with each other. It sounds like my kids sport programs, everybody gets a trophy becouse we don’t want to make someones kid feel bad becouse they did poorly or did not put in the extra effort to get better.Take the risk of no pay check for a commison and perks. Worker bee’s unite!
For an insurance mag and board designed for the insurance industry, there are never any informed people commenting here. Sure your pissed…but know your topic and business before you start making silly comments
Pres. Barrack Hussein Obama will make everyone equal. No more problems, no more trips. The man has a lot of knowledge about what got us into this mess. He likely feels guilty already about how much he benefited from this mess financially. We can trust he will now do the right thing to vindicate himself.
Can’t we?
Cob:
Thats all you have to say? lol
“Pres. Barrack Hussein Obama will make everyone equal. No more problems, no more trips. The man has a lot of knowledge about what got us into this mess. He likely feels guilty already about how much he benefited from this mess financially. We can trust he will now do the right thing to vindicate himself.
Can’t we?”
Aw! It is nice to see we accept the ‘special’ here too. Really said nothing at all…but at least he/she made an effort.
Kudos.
I would prefer a President that will bring everyone up to make us equal, not down.
Mr. P., attacking in debates has become common. Obama has yet to give anything concrete as to what he plans to do; all is vague. This incident with AIG is pretty black & white. McCain attacking the dems policy is a gray area because of the vagueness.
Obama has the inside angle on this mess. John McCain is so stupid he was trying to enact rules to call attention to what was happening and prevent it from continuing.
Its nice to know that we are subsidizing this trip so that aig can charge higher premiums on their insurance policies so the agents can make more money. You cannot have it both ways. if we are giving aig 120 billion dollars they should not be spending it on incentive trips for anyone.
Having attended several of these types of events over the years, I do hope that the company intends to issue IRS Form 1099’s to each producer who attended. The companies that hosted each one that I attended certainly did.
Your comparison doesn’t hold up. Ever plan a meeting for 100 people at a resort?
There are blocked rooms (if not filled the meeting sponsor gets to pay anyway) Meals not consumed same thing, etc, etc. A family usually does not book/guarantee 100 rooms. Get the drift?
y’all make it sound as though any and all brokers/independent contractors place business with one specific carrier because they might win a trip. Personally, I work very hard each and every day and always act in the clients best interest. In each and every new business opportunity I will provide a variety of options and make the appropriate recomendtions that both represent the clients best interests and that are the most cost effective. At the end of the day, this brings both parties piece of mind and will generally lead to additional new business opportunities based on this new clients favorable experience. This is called professionalism and integrity. If this hard work and effort is recognized by any specific carrier and I’m in their top 1% I would certainly entertain their extended gratitude in the form of an incentive trip. In this way, I am in the company of other top performers like myself and there is always something valuable learned during the process.
You are 100% correct. AIG pulling out of Half Moon Bay will cost them plenty. The hotel cannot find a short term booking, so AIG is on the hook anyway for virtually all the room night costs not to mention banquet projected costs, and in their jesture of good faith, if you had a non refundable airfare, they will most likely pick this cost up as well, which was not included. In all probabability, costing them more than if the event took place.
Look the real issue at hand here is whether these trips help produce more business. We know that agents can be swayed to one carrier or another based on perks so if AIG spends $1 to earn $2, then that’s just good business practice. All of us do this every day in the form of advertising. If, however, the trips are fluff that do not result in extra revenue, then it’s probably something that they should do away with until they are profitable.
Until we have those numbers in front of us, this conversation is pointless.
Jerry,
I have jumped into the water and I’m enjoying it very well. I used my own savings and started my own business. Every penny I make comes from what I sell. I also do all of my own support work. I plan to hire in the next year and know that I need to sell even more in order to pay above the median so I can have a true hard working team member. I will have enough on hand to pay a full two year’s salary with comparable benefits. I plan to always pay fairly. I will sacrifice and work harder so I don’t have the problem of people questioning if they are fairly compensated. And I love it when the waters get rough – makes for a more exciting ride.
In 2004, Republicans including George Bush, John McCain and some Democrats warned Congress on the policy of giving loans to people who financially were not able to pay them back.
Chris Dowd and Barney Frank blocked the investigation of of these unqualified loan practices in their commitees. They made a big deal about how sound Fannie May and Freddie Mac loan practices were. They said that this was political and Republicans were only trying to hurt poor people.
Chris Dowd, Barney Frank and Barach Obama received the most money of all in Congress from Fannie and Freddie.
This all on record but the bias of the media will not report it.
Admin,
Congratulations on taking the leap. I wish you all the best. I just took exception to the comment about agents not doing the right thing by their customers. Doing what is best for the customer isn’t always the most profitable in the short run…but it is in the long run.
Jerry
You obviously do not write business with AIG or you would know that they are not offering “higher” premiums. They are extremely underpriced for the majority of the business they write! They’ve been buying their business for years – and I’m sure they will continue to do so. And the claims will start rolling in, but no worries… We’re here to help them out!
My point exactly! I didn’t think I had to spell that out. You’re not Bubba from Florence, are you? If so, How’ve you been?
ok, this is a bit off topic, but I heard it this morning on the radio and it made a lot of sense.
BAR STOOL ECONOMICS
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.”Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20,”declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,” but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
Well if you really want to make this and us vs. them, you should be very happy and content, knowing that it is the arch-conservative paragons of virtue, the republican party and it’s leader GW Bush who brings our economy to it’s knees….who else is at the helm of the ship of state? Who else SHOULD be blamed for all of these wonderful eight years of prosperity? they like to place blame and take credit, now the shoes are on the other foot. I’d rather take my chances with the young, inexperienced than the old, well-traveled, in-the-know business type who ran this into the ground….
From the MANITOBA HERALD, Manitoba, Canada
A flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada
has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased
patrols to stop the illegal immigration.
The possibility of a McCain/Palin election is prompting the exodus
among left-leaning citizens who fear they’ll soon be required to hold
down a job, hunt, pray, and agree with Bill O’Reilly.
Canadian border farmers say it’s not uncommon to see dozens of
sociology professors, animal rights activists and Unitarians crossing
their fields at night. I went out to milk the cows the other day, and
there was a Hollywood producer huddled in the barn,’ said Manitoba
farmer Red Greenfield, whose acreage borders North Dakota. The
producer was cold, exhausted and hungry.
‘He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken.
When I gave him some fresh warm goat milk he tossed his cookies and
left. Didn’t even get a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?’
In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher
fences, but the liberals dug under them. So he tried installing
speakers that blare Rush Limbaugh across the fields. ‘Not real
effective,’ he said. ‘The liberals still got through but many were
crying as they ran through the corn fields’
Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet
liberals near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station
wagons, drive them across the border and leave them to fend for
themselves. ‘A lot of these people are not prepared for rugged
conditions,’ an Ontario border patrolman said. ‘I found one carload
without a drop of drinking water and wearing sandals. ‘They did have
a nice little Napa Valley cabernet, though.’
When liberals are caught, they’re sent back across the border, often
wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors
have been circulating about the McCain administration establishing
re-education camps in which liberals will be forced to shoot wolves
from airplanes, deny evolution, and actually work for a living. So
much job training is needed it is cheaper to just put them in a motel
and provide room service. At least they don’t break equipment.
In recent days, liberals have turned to sometimes ingenious ways of
crossing the border. Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on
bus trips to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a
half-dozen young vegans disguised in powdered wigs, Canadian
immigration authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the
supposed senior-citizen passengers on Red Skelton and Rosemary
Clooney hits to prove they were alive in the ’50s. ‘If they can’t
identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we get
suspicious about their age,’ an official said.
Canadian citizens have complained that these illegal immigrants are
creating an organic-broccoli shortage and renting all the good Susan
Sarandon movies.
‘I feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just
can’t support them,’ an Ottawa resident said.
‘How many lawyers, art-history and English majors does one country
need?
So many of you ‘taxpayers’ are so high and mighty on your AIG bash-wagon (via sensational media headlines and politicians making inaccurate/unchecked statments that truly rival the nat’l enquirer and TMZ) – did you ever ponder this? Think about how our congressman and senators live life daily ‘as elected by taxpayer’ civil servants. 1st class airline travel on a regular basis (if not by private jet), 1st class luncheons at the nicest establishments daily, huge house (yes, houses), nice cars, nice clothes, wasted spending bills without finding ways to cut expenses… Price that out line by line, politician by politician… THAT IS YOUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS AT-WORK, EVERYDAY, YEAR AFTER YEAR, for the ‘average’ politician (aka fatcat). Do you really find that acceptable while joe public is trying hard just to pay the bills every month? Of course it is not okay and we all know this taxpayer waste is going on to the nth degree, but joe public blissfully turns his/her head because the issue is SO much bigger and harder to change than AIG’s issue (why would the fatcats change what makes their job desirable and would take away those perks). AIG’s $440k business spend is not even a drop-in that political spend bucket each month. Ponder this…when did becoming an elected offical provide a level of stardom and wealth that rivals the biggest entertainers out there?? If this AIG sales practice enrages you so much, HOW CAN YOU NOT be enraged at the politicians who created this mess and are deperately trying to stay out of headlines by pointing fingers and having congressional hearings with these companies (acting like the companies are what brought america to it’s knees – pleeasssee).
Do us all a favor and become better informed before you start bashing and throwing around tax-payer waste rhetoric. AIG was, and IS, the best at insurance (their core business) in the world, and they are making a good and fair profit (93% combined ratio thru 2nd qtr). They create 2 new industry products a week! Many of you in this posting chain said it right – AIG has a line of credit with the Fed/Treasury and is NOT run by joe public, and will emerge from this short-term with the taxpayers receiving their full $85B + extortion-level interest rates and with some much-needed shedding of non-insurance assets. (Worst -case, AIG is liquidated as a company and uses their $1Trillion in Assets to pay off the taxpayer-provided line of credit). No harm. AIG is a just a big company in a capitalist environment suffering short-term liquidity in a unprecented capital/credit freeze and a derivatives issue valued at over $56Trillion globally – so let them run their business and deal with their issues internally as all the others get to do. (Trust me, $440k is a tiny check for this type of event for most mid-sized companies, and yes, they ALL do it; lucky for the others, they are not in the headlines – yet).
Sorry for the long-winded opinion. I just ask that you think about what we as taxpayers put up with everyday in politics and put this AIG $440k producer event in perspective, and then in the closet. It is a NON-ISSUE in the business world. And tax-payers ARE NOT going to foot the bill for it. Can’t say the same for the politicians paychecks. Thanks and let’s all hope the fear-mongers driving this stock crash get off the bus sooner than later.
Bob,
Bullseye. as I’ve referenced, bitter and uninformed are the majority of the posters, I’ve read them all and am amazed, but keeping in mind that the media controls public perception, the way this trip was spun, an uninformed person would most likely have this attitude. $440K is nothing. Four and Five Star resorts have similarly sized groups in and out weekly on three day events and generally account for about 80% of the average week day occupancy and they are not all insurance groups, just sales incentive groups,so this is standard everyday business. The Half Moon Bay event is a very nice meeting/incentive event. I understand the cancellation of the Half Moon Bay event as a PR move but also know the biggest irony with the cancellation is AIG still being responsible for room, tax and gratuities for all room nights, projected banquet revenues, including gratuities and even though transportation costs were not included, most likely non refundable airline costs for attendees due to the cancellation AIG will pay for the event without the benefit of the good will it was intended to provided. Everybody involved looses, but in the public’s eye, the public has won because they believe that AIG was caught red handed spending the publics money six days after they got a government loan. yea they got the government money thought lets get our executives together, go to Southern California and spend $440K on ourselves at a resort. They had such a blast, they booked another executive junket up to Northern California a few weeks latter but caught this time. LOL
I for one do not appreciate losing all that money out of my 401k .. so those people who make way to much money anyway go to a retreat and be pampered .. i work to hard for that money .. some of those people should put in a 12 hour shift somewhere and find out what real work is .. i really think those people should be fired and having to repay our of their own pockets what they spend on those retreats .. or what ever else they call it .. i am very furious over this ..
why do they need to use a resort .. why not a training room .. like at my job .. we all have to pile into a small hot room to hear what idiots have to say .. what makes them (sales man) any better then us ..
hear hear
Look folks your next president and his friends at Acorn are not any different than this mess at AIG. Why the heck should anyone at AIG get punished if this idiot is going to get elected. You get the government, businesses, and life you allow. 69,000 votes added in one Ohio county alone. What B.S.? And we are pissed off about AIG taking their Top Producers and given the Golden Boys and Girls treatment for a few days. WHooo!
A Smelly Acorn
The ‘voter registration’ racket.
By JOHN FUND
Members of the left-wing activist group Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (Acorn) had a quick and predictable response to this week’s raid of their Nevada offices by authorities investigating a possible massive voter-registration fraud scheme.
The Las Vegas Sun reports that Acorn volunteer Frank Beaty immediately claimed the raid, which removed computers and files from the group’s offices, was a conspiracy designed to prevent the registration of new voters. Acorn’s national chief Bertha Lewis called the raid “a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than [to] discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible vote to the polls.”
Reverting to the rhetoric of the 1960s voting rights struggle in the South may be politically useful, but it bears precious little resemblance to the reality of Acorn today. The group has constantly faced charges it mistreats its employees and even broke up their internal efforts to unionize their workplace.
Clark County Registrar of Voters Larry Lomax told the Sun that Acorn has been registering voters in Las Vegas since January and “we started having problems with them almost immediately.” His staff met with Acorn and was offered promises that fraudulent registrations would no longer be turned in. “But those controls weren’t sufficient,” Mr. Lomax said.
Indeed, the more his office and that of Nevada’s Secretary of State looked into Acorn’s effort, the more worried they became. Jason Anderson rose to the rank of supervisor in Acorn even though he was a convicted felon. Other employees had served time for identity theft. Another former inmate who worked for Acorn told authorities his co-workers were “lazy crack heads.”
Acorn’s activities are under investigation or suspicion in a dozen states, with one of its workers indicted just last week in Wisconsin. Perhaps the Nevada raid will spur authorities elsewhere to dig down and conclude their investigations by Election Day — before Acorn can do even more damage to the integrity of the vote.
Obama fundraiser, convicted of fraud, spills beans By MIKE ROBINSON, Associated Press Writer
Sat Oct 11, 11:44 AM ET
Jailed political fundraiser Antoin “Tony” Rezko, the Chicago real estate developer who helped launch Barack Obama on his political career, is whispering secrets to federal prosecutors about corruption in Illinois and the political fallout could be explosive.
Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich, whose administration faces multiple federal investigations over how it handed out jobs and money with advice from Rezko, is considered the most vulnerable.
Rezko also was friendly with Obama — offering him a job when he finished law school, funding his earliest political campaigns and purchasing a lot next to his house. But based on the known facts, charges so far and testimony at Rezko’s trial, there’s no indication there’ll be a so-called “October surprise” that could hurt the Democratic presidential nominee — even though Rezko says prosecutors are pressing him for dirt about Obama.
“I think this strikes fear into the Blagojevich administration and the Statehouse Democrats but not into the Obama campaign,” says state Sen. Kirk Dillard, R-Westmont, a John McCain delegate to the GOP convention but an old friend of Obama.
Rezko, 53, a real estate developer, was convicted in June of scheming to use his clout with the Blagojevich administration to squeeze $7 million in kickbacks out of a contractor and seven money management firms seeking to do business with the state.
Within two months, Rezko was seen in U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald’s office, along with his attorneys.
There has been no official confirmation that Rezko is talking but his sentencing has been postponed indefinitely and both sides say they are going to “engage in discussions that could affect their sentencing postures.”
“They never would have delayed the sentencing if he weren’t talking — it’s proof positive,” said Jay Stewart, executive director of the Better Government Association of Chicago.
In addition, attorneys say federal investigators have been questioning Blagojevich contributions around the state using information that only Rezko could have supplied. Finally, courthouse personnel requesting anonymity because grand jury probes are secret said Rezko has been repeatedly brought from his cell to the U.S. attorney’s office to talk to prosecutors.
Rezko could have a lot to tell. He has raised millions of dollars in campaign money for many Illinois politicians and according to federal prosecutors used his clout to control appointments to state boards.
Obama has sent to charity $159,000 that Rezko raised for his campaigns for the state legislature, the House and the Senate. Rezko raised nothing for Obama’s White House run.
Obama’s name came up in testimony at the trial four times, twice in connection with an obscure legislative memo, as a guest at a Rezko party and when defense attorney Joseph Duffy told jurors his client was a friend of the senator.
None of the witnesses accused the Democratic nominee for president of doing anything improper. In June, Duffy told the Chicago Tribune that prosecutors had not asked him a single question about Obama.
But questions concerning Obama’s relationship with Rezko linger, particularly over Rezko’s role in the purchase of the Obamas’ home.
The two have known each other for years, starting when Rezko offered Obama a job after he graduated from Harvard Law School in 1991. Obama didn’t take it, but a friendship developed.
The men talked politics frequently and occasionally dined together with their wives.
In 2005, the Obamas paid $1.65 million for their home near the University of Chicago. The sellers wanted a parcel they owned next door to sell on the same day, and Rezko’s wife, Rita, was the buyer. At the request of the Obamas, Mrs. Rezko later sold them a 10-foot strip of land to enlarge their lot. They paid $104,500.
The deal took place while Rezko was under investigation and when details of the cozy relationship surfaced, Obama said it was a “bonehead” error to have asked for the additional land because it looked like he was getting a favor.
Back in 1999 the NY times reported on the pending financial crisis due to social engineering due to giving people loans even if they were unqualified to receive them and were unlikely to pay them back. (subprime loans!!)
This was done as a result of supposed discrimination in lending practices. Institued in the Clinton administration due to pressure from the Democrats, ACCORN and other similar organizations. Why aren’t Democratic heads rolling?
Don’t wake them up but Obama’s tee pee is folding up faster than a tee shirt at the Hanes factory.