The Republicans don’t have an alternate bill addressing health care reform. Even if by some miracle they can get enough Democrats to turn coat and overrule Obama’s inevitable veto, repealing Obamacare now without an alternative in place and ready to go would yank out health insurance coverage from under the feet of millions of Americans. There is no benefit to repealing Obamacare without an alternative bill in place and ready to go.
Healthcare is not a right, if you can’t pay for it, you shouldn’t receive it.
Unfortunately, people don’t like that answer, so instead of addressing the real issue of actually making healthcare affordable (which the ACA does NOT do), Democrats and those who support the ACA are fine subsidizing the outrageous costs of healthcare, all the while, behind the scenes, healthcare “costs” are still ridiculously high, it’s just now the government is stealing from private citizens to pay for it.
I’m not interested in arguing about whether health care is a right or not. I just want it to be affordable and available for everybody. If you truly want to control healthcare costs then you’d be advocating for a universal health care system like the rest of the civilized world has.
The US spends twice as much on healthcare per person than the UK, Canada, Germany, France, etc. And what do we get in terms of outcomes for spending twice as much as other first-world countries? We have lower life expectancies, and higher rates of infant mortality, STDs, obesity and chronic diseases than those other countries.
Our health insurance system blows, and unfortunately Obamacare was a half-assed solution that made the worst of both worlds.
There is only one thing worse than Obamacare and that is Universal Care administered by government bureaucrats with death panels. Please name us one department or agency that is efficient and does the right thing for citizens of this country.
What, you don’t support the troops or did you forget about the DoD? The US military is the most trusted institution in America. Tens of millions of people count on Social Security for their basic needs and it has been the single most successful anti-poverty program in history. The CDC and NIH are very effective public health agencies.
There are innumerable examples of private industry being corrupt and inefficient. That’s because they are problems that any sufficiently large organization has to deal with. The government handles it better in some case and worse in others. At least with government services, you can vote out the jerk offs who screwed things up. Private companies are accountable to no one but their share holders, and they have shown time and again that if it’s profitable to screw people over, they will. Just look at the big banks.
The government isn’t inherently corrupt or inefficient. We just keep electing lawmakers who have already been bought and paid for by deep pocketed special interests. We need to get the money out of politics before any kind of real change happens.
July 30, 2015 at 1:51 pm
FFA says:
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Dave, private industry corruption goes away as the business folds due to the corruption being exposed.
Govt Corruption just leads to bigger govt so the new govt entity can “keep and eye” on the corrupt wing.
That sounds good on paper, but its just not true in practice FFA.
Look at HSBC, which admitted to laundering money for the drug cartels on a routine basis for years. Their eventual fine ended up being about 5 weeks profit.
Or how about the internal Ford memo, which stated that it would be more cost-effective to pay out the occasional injury/death settlement due to a flaw in the Pinto’s design than make an $11 repair on each car.
Nike has been repeatedly shown to use child slave labor to make its products. Phillip Morris employed scientists to fabricate data showing that their product wasn’t harmful. Halliburton plead guilty to destroying evidence implicating its role in one of the worst environmental disasters in history.
Many, many corporations have demonstrated time and again that if it’s profitable to do the wrong thing, they will. And some of the most egregious offenders are not only still in business, they’re more profitable than ever.
July 30, 2015 at 5:31 pm
Agent says:
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David, we noticed how effective CDC was during the Ebola scare. What a bunch of inept idiots they were not putting out guidelines to hospitals to diagnose and treat it.
There were only 4 cases of ebola in the United States, despite having hundreds of thousands of travelers coming from West African countries during the latest outbreak. I’d say that’s a pretty resounding success at containment.
I also notice you have nothing to say about Social Security or the military. That’s because they’re pretty universally praised here.
You are such an idiot, Agent. Trotting out discredited lines about death panels cited only by the dumbest of the dumb. I wish I knew which market you worked in, because I am sure it would be easy to take business from somebody living so divorced from reality.
How about the internet, created by government funding and research, which you are spouting your moronic talking points on? Or GPS, or satellites, or the space program, or the numerous breakthroughs in medicine?
July 31, 2015 at 2:20 pm
bob says:
Hot debate. What do you think?
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“The US spends twice as much on healthcare per person than the UK, Canada, Germany, France, etc. And what do we get in terms of outcomes for spending twice as much as other first-world countries? We have lower life expectancies, and higher rates of infant mortality, STDs, obesity and chronic diseases than those other countries. ”
Healthcare expenditures will stop STD’s, obesity, and chronic diseases which come in the form of sexual habits, eating habits, and then genetics?
Each area you just listed won’t be solved by health insurance, and infant mortality when all countries are weighed under the same parameters, we are the top. Different countries don’t even count certain infant deaths as infant mortality. We do. You could see how that impacts infant mortality.
Also, obesity affects infant mortality. So when we weigh equally, we are equal, but our exposure is worse. This means we have better outcomes. The same is true with obesity. We have equal outcomes with even worse scenarios. When we need emergency care to keep us alive, we get it. It’s expensive, but it keeps our fat butts alive.
I also question your ignorant assessment of “if you truly want to control healthcare costs then you’d be advocating for a universal health care system like the rest of the civilized world has. ”
On what grounds?
Because he doesn’t like increasing costs through obamacare he should just go ahead and advocate the extreme other end?
Reducing costs is only done through universal care by reducing coverage. They get a dollar, they pay a 90 cents at most. Insurance companies get a dollar, invest, and give back more than a dollar. You’re in the field. Cost cutting is done through insurance, as well as maximum performance per dollar and capital growth.
When you inhibit capital growth through attempts of cost cutting (obama care) you also make insurance not do what it’s meant to do.
Bob, perhaps the infant mortality has something to do with Planned Parenthood activities. The latest video has them delivering a live baby, then killing it for the parts. What an evil enterprise these people are running.
July 31, 2015 at 5:00 pm
Bob says:
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Abortions are not counted.
Infant mortality however in some countries does not count a fetus that died within a certain range of time. It is a matter of when the country, how many months old, is the baby counted.
July 31, 2015 at 5:09 pm
Agent says:
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Bob, infant mortality is infant mortality no matter if by disease or if Planned Parenthood is facilitating it. Millions have been aborted and never had the chance to be born, grow up, realize potential and be productive citizens. That is just asinine.
There’s no debate that the US has been found to have worse health care outcomes compared to other first world nations. You don’t have to trust me, just read that liberal rag Fox News.
I also noticed that nothing in your long-winded and fact-free essay explains why the US spend twice as much as they do. Cost cutting alone can’t explain why European nations spend half as much as we do on health care and yet enjoy better health outcomes.
Also, it appears you’re flat out wrong about the reason our infant mortality is higher is because other nations collect the statistics differently.
“In 2005, the United States ranked 30th in the world in infant mortality, behind most European countries, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, and Israel. There are some differences among countries in the reporting of very small infants who may die soon after birth. However, it appears unlikely that differences in reporting are the primary explanation for the United States’ relatively low international ranking. In 2005, 22 countries had infant mortality rates of 5.0 or below. One would have to assume that these countries did not report more than one-third of their infant deaths for their infant mortality rates to equal or exceed the U.S. rate. This level of underreporting appears unlikely for most developed countries.”
“There’s no debate that the US has been found to have worse health care outcomes compared to other first world nations.”
Then why is it that so many people (including numerous despots) come here to treat death threatening diseases? Kills the rest of your argument.
August 3, 2015 at 7:33 am
Ron says:
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Agent,
I agree with you that abortions are infant mortality and should be counted in the statistics. The reason they are not is because they are intentional and not a reflection of the quality of health care available.
I also agree that there should be no federal funding to Planned Parenthood if they are in any way associated with abortions.
“Then why is it that so many people (including numerous despots) come here to treat death threatening diseases? Kills the rest of your argument.”
You’re missing the forest for the trees. I didn’t say that the US has no good doctors or hospitals. The US has many of the best doctors in the world. I’m saying that healthcare outcomes ON AVERAGE are substantially worse here than in other first world nations, despite us spending twice as much as they do.
Healthcare is so obscenely expensive here that millions of people are priced out of it altogether, and many millions more get so far into medical debt that they have to declare bankruptcy. Medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in the US. This just doesn’t happen in countries with a national health care system.
It has the most bizarre and opaque pricing scheme of any industry in existence. There are no prices listed anywhere for what things cost and you can’t call ahead to a hospital or doctor’s office to get quotes either. An appendectomy can cost $8000 at one hospital and $30,000 at one a mile down the road. Different people with different insurance coverage get charged different prices. If you fall unconscious and an ambulance takes you to an out of network hospital, then you get reamed when the bill comes around.
And people without insurance are often charged $10 for a cotton gauze pad, $50 for one ibuprofen pill and $125 for a bag of saline solution. You can often negotiate the bill down, but what kind of messed up system is it where you receive the product first and are then billed an arbitrary made-up number that doesn’t even come close to reflecting the true cost of service?
“when all countries are weighed under the same parameters, we are the top.”
This is false, and a bad way to look at the data. What you are suggesting is to look at only obese people together, which discredits the better systems, which allow for preemptive care to reduce obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc., which are overwhelmingly found in the poor, and are disproportionately high in the US largely because of the system. You are basically saying if you do not count the good parts of the other systems, which we don’t have, we are equal. It’s not the right way to look at the data, and any source analyzing it like this is dishonest; anybody citing the data that knows this is a liar. The infant mortality here is atrocious even when compared only to advanced countries, and it’s almost exclusively due to poverty, and people being incapable of paying for health insurance. Your way of looking at the data looks at the large population here in that category, and the small pockets of people like that in other nations, excluding the majority of people in the country–again, the incorrect way to do this.
“Reducing costs is only done through universal care by reducing coverage”
100% incorrect, all the data refutes this. It is reduced by preemptive health care, which pays off by way more than a 1:1 margin. The best way to reduce costs is to have a wide pool of only people who will never need treatment, but that’s idiotic. The best way to do it society-wide is to have the largest pool possible, to use preemptive care, and to have everybody contribute. Having the “cheapest” option is not the best option for society.
“Capital growth,” as practiced by health insurers translates to nothing more than larger bonus payouts; this has been shown over and over. The health insurance industry in the US was already in a death spiral before Obamacare. Prices would have skyrocketed higher, even if they only covered healthy people.
The reason I don’t post (re-post) facts about healthcare is I don’t need to here.
I’ve already had the debate. Others here make flat out wrong comments and don’t post much beside it.
All you have to do David, is look it up.
August 4, 2015 at 1:52 am
bob says:
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On to my other facts:
Countries have cut healthcare costs, but when you look at the primary causes of death, and life expectancies, and then compare obesity rates, smoking rates, and other just plain bad choices, we are unbelievably close.
I don’t need to quote a study on this. Can you think for yourself? It’s pretty obvious when you aren’t delusional and look up obesity statistics. Read some of this book:
An absolutely huge portion of the life expectancy difference (which is small) is explained by our obesity rates.
Another huge chunk is our smoking rates.
An odd one is our vehicular deaths and homicide rates. There is no official study, but we are normally double other countries for crime and vehicular deaths, with vehicular deaths being such a huge issue I don’t know why it isn’t taken more seriously.
Do you even know any of the problems in this country, or do you just spout of talking points?
Do you read?
August 4, 2015 at 2:04 am
bob says:
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Really the insanity here is in the leftists here believing they are moderate.
It’s getting really annoying.
I have here alone seen someone suggest to do universal healthcare as the only method of cost control, which is sheer insanity.
We are insurance agents. Did any of you go to school before or after going to your week of classes?
Do ANY of you know how insurance works?
Private healthcare is the best solution, end of story, period. This isn’t up for debate if you know how it works.
They pay out more per dollar than received. They restrict bad claims and pay out on severe claims specifically to have more for severe claims, and to pay out more than a dollar on each claim for what was received. It works. End of story. We aren’t going to keep doing this debate.
The only debate is how to help the poor essentially. Make a public option.
Ended. Done. We don’t need to force everyone into public. That is not moderate.
We don’t need to have no public option. That is not moderate.
Obama care isn’t a good option, and everyone here knows it.
So instead of focusing on the fact that the republicans are trying to replace it, why not focus on the fact that the democrats are trying to KEEP it. They have no intention of changing it. They have no intention of admitting fault with it.
This is the worse of the two actions. Period! End of story!
This debate being redone on an INSURANCE site where we all are in the industry is insulting.
This is how I know you’re a hopeless ideologue Bob. You trust an opinion piece authored by an economic blogger more than actual research done on this topic by the CDC. You choose to ignore data contradicting your incorrect beliefs and instead will dig up garbage opinion pieces written by pundits with an axe to grind.
If you had bothered to ready the study I posted, it specifically mentioned that reporting differences are a factor, but not a significant one. The main reason why the US has a much higher infant mortality rate than every other civilized country is because we have a higher percentage of preterm births.
And what are the greatest predictors of whether a woman will have a premature baby? Substance abuse, socioeconomic status, and lack of prenatal care. All three of these factors are exacerbated by our shitty for-profit healthcare system.
Substance abuse treatment has fallen by the wayside in the US, because funding for it has been slowly drying up since the Reagan administration. Whereas it is freely available to people in countries with universal health care.
And poor women just can’t afford prenatal care in this country. My sister has health insurance and she still had to pay $5,000 out of pocket for prenatal care throughout her pregnancy. How do you expect women living paycheck to paycheck to afford that? Hint: they can’t, so they often don’t get it. So when something goes wrong early on which may cause a preterm birth (and thus increase the likelihood of the infant not surviving), it isn’t caught because poor women can’t afford regular checkups.
These problems just don’t occur under a universal health care system, because women who enjoy these systems don’t have exorbitant medical bills pricing them out of seeking drug treatment or prenatal care. And the CDC data bears this out.
Obesity and smoking addictions are strongly correlated with socioeconomic status, with poor people being far more likely to suffer from both.
They also both happen to be something that we can treat clinically. And guess what poor people can’t afford in this country? Health care. Our outcomes would be substantially better if poor people could get preventive care like poor people in nations with universal health care do.
Also, Europeans are well known to have higher smoking rates than the US and yet they have better outcomes when it comes to lung disease treatment.
August 5, 2015 at 1:47 am
bob says:
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UW:
“This is false, and a bad way to look at the data. What you are suggesting is to look at only obese people together, which discredits the better systems, which allow for preemptive care to reduce obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc., which are overwhelmingly found in the poor, and are disproportionately high in the US largely because of the system. You are basically saying if you do not count the good parts of the other systems, which we don’t have, we are equal. It’s not the right way to look at the data, and any source analyzing it like this is dishonest; anybody citing the data that knows this is a liar. The infant mortality here is atrocious even when compared only to advanced countries, and it’s almost exclusively due to poverty, and people being incapable of paying for health insurance. Your way of looking at the data looks at the large population here in that category, and the small pockets of people like that in other nations, excluding the majority of people in the country–again, the incorrect way to do this. ”
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. There is no preemptive care for obesity. Other countries have no system in place that is reducing obesity.
The reason I remove obesity is due to the fact that choosing to be obese results in a need for higher cost care.
When other countries have lower obesity rates it is not linked to preemptive care, it is linked to lifestyle choices.
Regarding your other points: Corporate bonuses are not the sole source of these firms.
5% growth on this firm. How much of it do you suppose went to bonuses? Even if it was HALF they would have a growth of 2.5% per year. Over 20 years, this is huge. This is how they pay out more than the government. You are in the field, take some classes on how it works. In no circumstances does half of the revenues go to bonuses.
This is sheer insanity. Learn the field, learn to think.
August 5, 2015 at 1:54 am
bob says:
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David,
The opinion piece isn’t of relevance, their data is.
I grab multiple pieces of data to show a point. Note that you never directed my data, you went after the source and tried ad hominem on the very fact that I would use an opinion piece. Stay on the damn topic, and don’t debate dishonestly.
Moving on: Clinical treatment for smoking, you have got to be kidding me.
This will be cost ineffective, and really, you can’t force people to do it. When people go on the patch, it works. They don’t want to. Whether it is linked to being poor is irrelevant by the way, and was just inserted to pull at the heart strings. It is choice.
Your sister comment is more “ideology” While you call me an ideologue. I am not an ideologue. I am SOLELY about facts and what is best, and you WILL NOT call me an ideologue as if it is normal speech to someone you speak to. Here’s a hint: It isn’t. See what I did there mimicking you?
My wife had a few kids. We also couldn’t afford the co pays. Newsflash: I’m aware of heart string issues.
I’m also aware the private system can always function better and pay more. If you can afford private insurance, it’s the best route. I also mentioned public as an option, which you clearly didn’t read, for people who cannot afford that.
The problem is you’re not reading, and are arguing with me as if I were agent, who DOES in fact advocate a can’t pay, no treatment IDEOLOGY. And he does argue IDEOLOGY. I do not.
I’m getting rather sick of you leftist extremists acting irate.
August 5, 2015 at 1:56 am
bob says:
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So the bottom line david, I MADE A HYPOTHESIS.
I showed data matching up with it, some I didn’t show and told you to look it up yourself.
My hypothesis is such:
Our life expectancy is extremely close to other countries and we have the worst lifestyles. When accounting for obesity and smoking and other factors it can only make sense if our system is saving our butts.
Also: I didn’t just use opinion pieces. Do you know how to read source citations in a book? Like the one I provided you?
He had an opinion, but source cited info, child.
Meaning: READ THE SOURCE DATA.
Idiot. I cannot believe the sheer stupidity of people here, namely you. Stay on topic and debate the points at hand! Debate the concept. Debate the data!
August 5, 2015 at 2:11 am
bob says:
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David,
Also, you’re wrong on infant mortality.
Many nations do not count baby’s even born alive who die, if they are less than 500 grams.
That’s hilarious Bob, you inadvertently backed up my claims with your own source! Even the most favorable fine-toothed massaging of the data still puts the US outside the top 10. From your article:
“The U.S. ranks much better on a measure that the World Health Organization says is more accurate, the perinatal mortality rate, defined as death between 22 weeks’ gestation and seven days after birth. According to the WHO 2006 report on Neonatal and Perinatal Mortality, the U.S. comes in at 16th — and even higher if you knock out several tiny countries with tiny birthrates and populations, such as Martinique and San Marino.”
Also, here’s a quote from the very WHO study that the Fox Business columnist leans so heavily on:
“Universal access to quality care in pregnancy, at childbirth and postpartum for mothers and their newborns is essential for reducing perinatal and neonatal mortality.”
No matter how much spin you put on it, our for-profit healthcare system sucks. If we’re spending twice as much as everyone else, we damn sure better have the undisputed best outcomes in the world. But we don’t. In every large study done comparing our healthcare outcomes with our first-world peers, the US always lags behind.
The UK and Canada both have similar rates of obesity and smoking to the US and yet they spend half as much as we do for better outcomes. I know it breaks your poor little free-market heart to admit it, but the reality is that socialist solutions can and do work better than private sector ones for certain industries. Healthcare, the military, and critical infrastructure projects are all better administered by the government than for-profit corporations.
Based on your statement, “Healthcare is not a right, if you can’t pay for it, you shouldn’t receive it.”, you must believe that we are not a Christian nation.
Plenty of ideas have been proposed by Heritage and Cato and their cronies. Not arguing against that. I’m saying that the congressional Republicans have yet to introduce a single piece of legislation on the floor even attempting to replace Obamacare. Instead they’ve been too busy making dozens of futile attempts to repeal or defund it.
Until the Republicans have some legislation that stands a chance of passing up and ready to go, it’s stupid to repeal Obamacare and take away coverage from millions of Americans.
So, they are bad for trying to repeal it, because it won’t have a chance to get repealed…
And they are bad for trying because they have no replacement, because it will get repealed!
Wonderful thought process my friend!
Heritage and Cato and their cronies had suggestions regarding a mandate in the 80’s as well.
Just because someone is in politics and in business it doesn’t make them a crony, especially when they try to pass something pertinent to all business and all people, themselves included. To be a cronyist you must be owning government for your businesses specific gain.
You are an extreme leftist not a moderate. I could just as easily make agent’s version of democrats in bed with business.
Instead, let’s make this about the obvious thing that it’s actually about.
He said republicans have alternatives. They do. They tried to pass them.
The plans were not cronist plans. They had merit. They were CBO rated, many with substantial help for the poor. You don’t get to just say “oh that was cronyism, our plan wasn’t!”.
There were upwards of 10, one of which was CBO rated to bring down the cost of insurance by nearly 10%. The democrats refused to acknowledge them though. There were plans to give up to a $5,000 debit card to poor families to buy insurance. Making health insurance tax deductible was another. To say there were no bills is bull crap.
The only reason more people wouldn’t be insured is because no one would be forced to buy a policy.
Being forced to buy a policy is not a benefit.
The yanking you are speaking of I imagine is the people who now have subsidies. These people had health care before. The majority of the insured who weren’t insured before are those who were forced to buy it. So we wouldn’t be yanking anything.
Regardless of whether you like Obamacare or think it’s a miserable failure, this vote is just stupid. Even if it does make it to Obama’s desk, it’s just going to get vetoed, and they’ll never get enough votes to override a veto. This is an exercise in futility and yet another example of why our government is so broken. Instead of focusing on things that can actually be fixed/changed, they waste their time on a vote that’s going to be more symbolic than anything else.
And this isn’t a Republican or Democrat issue. They all do it. They’re all so damned concerned with scoring points against each other, and we’re the ones that suffer because of it.
The only way to change obamacare if you don’t like obamacare is to keep the debate alive, whether or not someone will change it.
Otherwise it becomes the status quo. You push an option, sell it to the public, and if the guy votes against it (and accordingly the whole party) then everyone knows who to vote for next cycle to get a replacement.
What you are advocating for, is complete silence when it comes to bill.
You merely want to shut republicans up, against the logics of how politics work.
I don’t want to shut anybody up. Keep the debate alive. That’s great. But you don’t need to have yet another vote to do that.
Even if they do manage to get a bill repealing Obamacare through both houses and to Obama’s desk for a signature, it will just be vetoed. And, they’ll never get enough votes to override it.
Trying to pass yet another bill that won’t go anywhere and won’t accomplish what they want it to, is a just waste of time and effort that can be applied elsewhere.
If they say they have plans, the public will then ask why they didn’t vote on them.
They need to have physical bills they attempted to pass, inclusive of repealing the bill.
You do not hold this same standard to democrats, who repeatedly put options up that would not pass and voted on them.
This is a scenario where you want them to shut up you just don’t realize it. Keeping a bill alive involves constantly putting serious bills up to vote, in order to be taken seriously on your record.
You know Bob, for someone who gets so angry when other people interpret or twist your words to mean something you didn’t intend them to, you sure do it a hell of a lot to everyone else.
I meant exactly what I said. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Obamacare will never be repealed while Obama is still in office. It has already been attempted multiple times and failed each and every time. This new attempt is a waste of time that could be better spent on other issues that they could actually do something about.
August 5, 2015 at 2:14 am
bob says:
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Ah, ad hominem when you get caught in crap.
You mean what you say. Exactly. This has no chance of being repealed. But you also don’t want it to be, very clearly.
The republicans who are trying to alter it are bad by default, no matter the route, unless they somehow get it repealed by having enough votes. You put no blame on the democrats who refuse to admit fault or change the law.
The republicans won’t get a super majority, and if they advertise changing Obamacare without a serious plan, you will say they have no plan, even if it is CBO rated.
Voting on plans constantly remains the way to do things.
You are dishonest on this. It’s absurd. Grow up.
August 5, 2015 at 2:16 am
bob says:
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Also, child, I do not get angry when people twist my words.
I recently had a spat about that,(which was solely when someone tried to say when I debated about something I clearly did not debate about, and was making me say things I never said, which is clearly not the case here. And by that I mean it was literally impossible to misconstrue my words.) but the primary issue I have is when people prefer to do what you just did.
Ad hominem style debate.
Or character attacks.
Or Fox News attacks.
Again, grow up.
August 5, 2015 at 1:08 pm
BS says:
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Bob said: “which was solely when someone tried to say when I debated about something I clearly did not debate about, and was making me say things I never said, which is clearly not the case here. And by that I mean it was literally impossible to misconstrue my words…”
But this is exactly what you are doing to me. All I have said is that due to the current layout of the Legislative and Executive branches of the government, it is impossible for Obamacare to be repealed AT THIS TIME; and that I believe that time could be better spent focusing on issues that can be affected, rather than continuing to vote on something that can’t be changed AT THIS TIME.
That’s it.
YOU are the one saying that I don’t want them to continue discussing it.
YOU are the one saying that I ‘clearly’ don’t want the bill repealed.
YOU are the one saying I wouldn’t hold the Democrats to the same standards if the roles were reversed.
YOU are the one saying that I would say they didn’t have a plan if they didn’t vote on it, now.
I have never said anything like that. I’m fine with continued debate on the ACA. I’m NOT a big fan of it, and I DON’T care if it gets repealed. I would be just as irritated with the Democrats if they did something similar. I would be interested to hear what they would plan to do if they were able to repeal the ACA – ie. just flat out repeal or repeal and replace it with something else?
YOU are the one who has labeled ME as an evil progressive liberal that just wants to see the Republican party burn. YOU are the one who is so blinded by your own partisanship that you attack me for saying something that YOU EVEN AGREED WITH when SOMEONE ELSE said it:
Agent Says: “Bob, if any change amendments were ever passed like getting rid of the onerous mandates to start with, they would also be vetoed by Obama. We have to wait until he is gone to do anything substantial like repeal and start over.”
Bob Says: “Your comment is true, but I’m trying to keep him focused.”
I just don’t get it. Are you really that hard up for a fight that you’ll twist a relatively innocuous comment into something completely different, just so you can have something to rail against?
August 5, 2015 at 2:09 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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+1,000,000 for your calm and rational responses in this part of the comment section, BS.
I will not interject anything into your conversation with bob on these points right now, except to say: I appreciate your level-headedness in dealing with the items you just laid out.
Like I’ve said to you before, I may not always agree with you, but I definitely respect how you comment around here.
I hope bob replies to you directly so your discussion with him can continue.
August 5, 2015 at 3:40 pm
BS says:
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Thanks, Rosenblatt. And I’ll say the same to you. Ever since you first started commenting, I’ve been very impressed with how you handle yourself. The discussions and debates on this board can be great, but too often devolve into attacks and insults. I really appreciate your efforts at trying to stop some of the vitriol that tends to flow when the arguments get too heated.
August 5, 2015 at 4:06 pm
Rosenblatt says:
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(insert “gross guys, get a room” comment here :)
July 31, 2015 at 2:27 pm
bob says:
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Allow me to prove what I just stated:
How would someone go about politically changing Obamacare?
Point out to me the proper process, which would legitimately have a chance of working.
Demonstrate the differences from what is being done now. Demonstrate what is unacceptable.
Winning the White House is a start. We don’t need to win more seats in Congress since there is a majority already and a Republican President will not veto what they pass.
The American public is already well aware of the GOP’s stance on Obamacare. All they need to do is say “We’ve tried to repeal Obamacare X times with no success. If you want it gone, you’re going to need to elect [insert Republican candidate] to office.” They don’t need to try and fail to repeal it again to prove anything.
August 4, 2015 at 1:55 am
bob says:
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Which you have already said, is a dead issue, and you and others have lambasted them for holding on to it, and saying they will remove it when they go to presidency.
You have set up a no win scenario for republicans.
Also, you say people are well aware:
RON IS NOT.
He thinks they would have potentially put it in place without Obama and has said it many times. Many MODERATES make this claim.
To win the presidency, you must have MODERATES and apparently you don’t know them very well BS.
I get mad at them often, but I know them.
Your scenario does not allow the republicans to vote and show their record, which moderates WILL go to.
They don’t care what a person says when they run. They care about visible plans.
If republicans have ones they tried to pass, which is their JOB not to just pass democrat bills, then they can show why they should be voted in.
August 4, 2015 at 12:04 pm
BS says:
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I didn’t say it’s a dead issue. I said they had no chance of repealing Obamacare with the current layout of the Legislative and Executive branches of the government. That doesn’t mean the issue is dead. Just that they can’t do anything about it right now. And, I specifically said that if they wanted to repeal it, they needed to win the White House and more seats in Congress.
I have never lambasted Republicans for holding onto their desire to repeal Obamacare. I honestly don’t care about the ACA one way or the other. My irritation stems from the almost 70 different attempts to repeal, defund or change the law, even though they KNOW it will never make it past Obama’s desk. I have to think that the time and effort they put into, say 50 of those attempts could have been better spent on other issues.
They already have almost 70 votes on record regarding Obamacare. They don’t need another one to prove they don’t like it and would get rid of it if elected.
And for the record, I would be just as irritated with the Democrats if the roles were reversed, and they were the ones who kept trying to repeal something they had no chance at repealing.
There comes a point where you have to accept that you can not change something in it’s current environment. That’s when you have to step back, determine what you would need to make that change, and focus on getting those things in place so that you can make that change a little down the road.
July 31, 2015 at 5:12 pm
Agent says:
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Bob, if any change amendments were ever passed like getting rid of the onerous mandates to start with, they would also be vetoed by Obama. We have to wait until he is gone to do anything substantial like repeal and start over.
Your comment is true, but I’m trying to keep him focused.
In order to keep this alive we need to keep a constant flow of bills alive and options for the public to know what alternatives there were, who blocked it, and hold people accountable.
I have far too often seen people say that alternates weren’t available and blame republicans. I have far too often seen people say the republicans could have passed something, why didn’t they try.
But now on this, they want them silent.
Really this is just manipulation. I’m not sure if BS is doing it intentionally or just parroting others who do intentionally in politics, but this kind of behavior needs to stop.
The “shut up and don’t do anything” not surprisingly, doesn’t get anything done.
Bob, the Progressive Liberals, when they were in power basically told Republicans to get on the back of the bus because it was going to be done their way. Then, Pelosi said they had to pass it to see what was in it and then Gruber told all his famous lies about it. Now, the mantra is “why didn’t Republicans offer a different plan”? They did, but it was dismissed out of hand. We are just going to have to wait for about 18 months to get a viable plan done to replace this nightmare.
August 3, 2015 at 11:17 am
BS says:
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Thank you for understanding what I meant and not automatically assuming that there was nefarious intent behind it, Agent.
You do have either ignorance of what is best for politics, or nefarious intent.
This is pure insanity. Clinton took these same methods, so have democrats. In order to keep a healthcare option alive they have tried to pass it on their own every time. Clinton care died. Obama care didn’t.
It is about keeping it alive and keeping the people’s eyes on the votes. This is how politics works. But suddenly if republicans do it it’s just stupid.
You said, “It is about keeping it alive and keeping the people’s eyes on the votes. This is how politics works. But suddenly if republicans do it it’s just stupid.”
Name one law that Democrats tried to repeal at least 25 times with absolutely zero chance of passing. This is an unprecedented waste of time and taxpayer money. Part of politics is knowing what battles to fight and when based on reality. Republicans are just interested in scoring political points in order to get re-elected, not governing. The Republicans are supposed to be the party for the adults. Yet they are the ones acting like children.
If Republicans want support from Independents like me in 2016? Govern based on the realities of the situation and work on fixing what can be fixed.
Believe it or not,I am pining to vote for a Republican. One that will listen and cater to the American people as a whole and not abandon their core principles of fiscal responsibility.
Republicans have been in control of Congress for over 7 months and have accomplished nothing.
August 5, 2015 at 2:21 am
bob says:
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“Republicans have been in control of Congress for over 7 months and have accomplished nothing.”
So as long as they try to pass their plans, with a president who works with them, they are bad.
Gotcha. Explain to me what they should have done? You say you don’t want Obamacare, here people are voting to repeal it, and you won’t give them your vote specifically because they are doing that when it can’t be done, the person making it not able to be done, and people, are democrats.
It is irrelevant if democrats have tried to repeal something 25 times (it’s actually a lot more than it) due to this: FALSE EQUIVALENCY. The public doesn’t want it. The republicans are doing their job voting to remove it. It does NOT waste tax payer money. You must prove them voting on this bill stopped other bills. It didn’t.
Moving on: So then, you agree that republicans are not extreme enough to refuse to repeal something when in power? You forget to realize WHY democrats don’t often do such a thing. Republicans don’t often pass an undesired plan.
What do i want them to do? Just what most Americans want them to do, stop trying to repeal the PPACA until it is actually possible and focus on something, tax reform, reducing spending, illegal immigration, etc., that may actually get accomplished with President Obama. These are all issues he has expressed interest in working with Republicans.
Spending time repealing the PPACA is time away from doing anything else.Or are you saying the Republicans have been working on the bills to repeal the PPACA on their own time. Highly unlikely.
You said, “It is irrelevant if democrats have tried to repeal something 25 times” No it is not. You implied that Democrats have engaged in this behavior in the past and I am only criticizing this action now because it is the Republicans doing it. Get it? Probably not.
You said, “So as long as they try to pass their plans, with a president who works with them, they are bad.” This makes absolutely no sense. Please elaborate.
You said, “So then, you agree that republicans are not extreme enough to refuse to repeal something when in power?” Again, this makes absolutely no sense. Please elaborate.
August 4, 2015 at 12:37 pm
Agent says:
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So BS, you said you said you would be just as irritated if the Democrats tried to repeal something that had no chance of being repealed. Can you cite one instance where Republicans passed legislation in our history that was totally partisan and rammed it down the Democrats throats? Obamacare was totally unique, was based on total fabrication, lies, coercion as has come out in the past 5 years. It is no wonder we have had so much objection to it. Progressive Socialists have dreamed of controlling healthcare for 100 years. When they made a huge mess, they now want Republicans to clean up the mess they made.
Agent, I’m not arguing for Obamacare. I’m not particularly a fan of it myself and wouldn’t lose any sleep if it was repealed. So, it’s not the fact that Republicans want to get rid of it that’s irritating me. Its the futility of the almost 70 votes that could have been applied elsewhere.
August 14, 2015 at 10:04 am
Agent says:
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Ron, you have had almost 7 years of the savior you voted for twice. Please name one thing he will agree to with Republicans that don’t have to do with Progressive programs he wants to install. He promises vetos on anything they want to do. I will say that he is consistent with his agenda. At the end of his term, he will have nothing but a huge mess for the next Republican President to overturn and the next President will have writers cramps from cancelling all those Executive orders and reversing bad legislation, firing agency heads at EPA, IRS and numerous others.
When have I ever referred to President Obama as a savior?
You asked, “Please name one thing he will agree to with Republicans that don’t have to do with Progressive programs he wants to install.” Tax breaks for companies who expand their workforce, especially if they hire veterans. Or is that something Republicans are against?
Will the next Republican president use EOs to cancel President Obama’s EOs? Sounds hypocritical.
You do realize that President Obama has issued the fewest total EOs and EOs per year than any other president since Ford, right?
Ron, are you in total brain lock? Obama is your guy, you voted for him twice thinking he was wonderful and obviously the best choice over a businessman. Did you happen to notice that a businessman is leading the polls over the professional politicians? We have to get this country back to work and that won’t be accomplished unless we put someone in office who understands business, is not beholden to special interests and can focus on what is really important so the country can be great again. It is appalling how this country has gone down in just 7 years.
Hi FFA, I will try to change the subject and ask you how your wife is doing now and how does she like living in Wisconsin? My wife is marginally better, but still has her medical issues. A few weeks ago, she had a place on her bicep that looked like an ugly bruise with a knot under it. She went in for a sonogram, waited a week and asked what the results were. They said her arm was normal. Tell me, what is normal about having a knot in the muscle? The bruise is fading, but not the knot. They said they could refer her to a surgeon if she liked. Our PA daughter said to wait another 2 weeks and if it is still the same, to call another doctor. Sometimes I think that her GP graduated in the lower 50% of her class.
Its a Fibro Knot. Massage it our for her. Ice it down. I spend at least one hour a day doing that for my honey. The stubborn ones take time and effort. My wife works her self to exhaustion, does the crash & burn for a day or two, feels better then hits it hard again and the cycle continues.
We all love it up there. Our river frontage is a beautiful thing. The never ending stream of wild life. Should have opened up shop there back in 1990 instead of IL. Its a way better way of life. It has loosened up funds for more fun things. So the kids are loving it. The Casino draws some good entertainment. My wife wants to see Tanya Tucker. Not really my thing, but I’ll go see 38 Special.
The news is way different up there too. I go weeks with out hearing about a shooting, kidnapping, a corrupt politician, State Govt throwing mud at each other, ect…. Even the local politicians are “corrupt Free”.
Good for you FFA. I am glad you like it up there. I hope you are far enough back from the river that you never have a flood issue on your home. We have had some flooding issues down here earlier this spring in some northern areas, not mine. The good news is that all the lakes are full and many are above normal levels.
I want this repealed with a viable option put in place as much as everyone, but McConnel can go to hell. How about our elected officials focus on what we NEED them to focus on, like decimating this horrifying Iranian Nuclear “Deal” and permanently defunding any and all tax payer contributions to Planned Parenthood? The time is now. Get a clue you moronic, bureaucratic assbags.
UW, I want to see clean, one issue bills put to vote, not being put on amendments to unrelated bills like the Highway Bill. This practice of putting bills forth with tons of amendments is a joke and should be abolished. It is time to get things done and if the President wants to be an obstructionist, he has the pen and he will be blamed.
They way bills are handled in Congress is absolutely insane. I was watching Last Week Tonight earlier this week, and when John Oliver described what happened to a bill when it went from the House to the Senate, it made my head spin.
A Republican Representative proposed a bill, H.R. 644, that would would give tax incentives to food-service companies and farms that donate surplus food that would otherwise be discarded. The bill, named the America Gives More Act of 2015, passed the House and was sent over to the Senate.
While in the House, H.R. 644 was relatively small and straightforward. However, once in the Senate, it was completely gutted and refilled with language about border control, copyright infringement, and trade agreements with Israel and Korea. H.R. 644 passed the Senate, but as the Trade Facilitation and Trade Enforcement Act of 2015, and without one word about incentives for food donation.
Huh. I could have sworn my reply was higher up and in response to someone posting the SNL spoof of Schoolhouse Rock. Did it get deleted?
July 31, 2015 at 5:17 pm
Agent says:
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Ron would tell you that you don’t know how to reply correctly. I have done the same thing right under what I was replying to and it would be found 20 replies below.
August 3, 2015 at 11:14 am
BS says:
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Yeah. It’s kind of bizarre. When I said, “Huh. I could have sworn…,” my original “*sigh*” comment was the last comment at the bottom of the page. Now, it’s moved back up here. (the Schoolhouse Rock comment I was originally responding to is still gone)
It is nice to know that it’s a tech glitch and not user error, though. ;)
you don’t know how to post properly when there is no ‘reply’ button in the comment you want to reply to, even though you have been taught what to do at least 1/2 a dozen times. just admit it Agent – when there is no ‘reply’ button, you have no idea where to post your reply.
July 30, 2015 at 10:21 am
Agent says:
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McConnell is just an old RINO who has been in office too long to get the will of the people. He did hold a little press conference yesterday to say he will put forth the bill defunding Planned Parenthood next week. We will see if he follows through. He may be surprised that several Democrats may support defunding and may override the veto sure to come from Obama. Obama still praises Planned Parenthood no matter how bad they are. How Presidential!
Yes Yogi, I am a veteran, but wouldn’t consider using VA facilities since I had a relative die due to their ineptitude and two current friends were misdiagnosed and not treated properly and both had to be treated by other doctors and hospitals or they would be dead by now.
Yogi, don’t you love how specific and detailed Agent is? It was “ineptitude” and “not treated properly”, duh! Throw down some specifics, Agent. Or, don’t you have any?
How is this for ineptitude Planettroll? One guy was diagnosed with a cancerous growth on his neck. The VA wanted to operate and also take out lymph nodes under his arms and then start radiation. His son said to dad, whoa. Let’s get a second opinion before doing that. Took him to MD Anderson in Houston, one of the best cancer hospitals in the world. After running numerous tests, they found not one cancer cell in his body. Good thing they didn’t let the VA proceed. The other one was gall bladder. The man stayed in the hospital for a week with nothing going on and treated it with antibiotics. He kept getting worse and they said they didn’t have a General Surgeon to operate on him. He left and came back home, saw a local doctor who said after tests, we need to get you into surgery right away because of the spread of infection. The surgeon said if he had waited another week, he would have died. Of course, the relative that died at the VA was because they kept him immobile after major surgery for a whole month. When they got him up finally, he threw an embolism which went right to his heart and killed him. There is a good reason why doctors want to get a patient up and walking around as soon after surgery as possible. VA doctors are the worst.
Planettroll?!!! Hahahaha! Agent, you always have the best jokes! And as always, great points about the VA! You really know how to keep the wheel spinnin’!
I rather like the service provided by the Social Security Administration. It keeps many millions of elderly and disabled folks from starving to death including my parents. I also enjoy the service provided by the US military in keeping us safe.
It’s nearly universally agreed that it would be a terrible idea to privatize either of those government organizations. If the government can and does administer extremely popular and successful organizations, then its possible that it could provide universal health care too.
Before we can do anything though, we have to get the money out of politics. As it stands now, every major player in Washington, Republican and Democrat alike, has already been bought and paid for by wealthy interest groups. They’re not looking out for the interests of the American people. They only care about pleasing their largest donors so that the gravy train of cash and power keeps flowing.
I like the post office, too. So cheap for me to get my mail anywhere in the country and they are reliable. If only Republicans didn’t make it so we have to fund the pension for postal workers who haven’t even been born yet. Everyone knows that was just their way of trying to kill the largest public union. People generally like their mail and their postal worker. Now, dogs on the other hand…
Not so reliable Planet. They are miserably inefficient and no wonder they are costing taxpayers so much. Despite numerous increases in stamp costs, they don’t change their ways. I can get correspondence from 200 miles away faster than I can get it from across town because they changed the service center processing it so they have to transport mail to it, process it and send it back to my town. What a deal. You can’t get much more inefficient than that. They also sling mail around at the P.O. box and often get our mail mixed up with someone else or they get our mail which delays receipt.
Anything is possible Dave. Its possible that Obama is sitting on evidence to clear Blago. Its more likely that he has something to say that proves he is just another Il politician with deeper ties to convicted felons like Rezco & Levine then we know about.
So FFA, do you think Blago will get out for good behavior or continue to serve it out? If he does get out, he will probably have to sign a non-disclosure agreement and not talk about what happened at all.
He had some of the convictions over turned. Something the judge didn’t allow. He goes in for re-sentencing on the remaining charges. According to the reports I have seen, he may not get any time off as the original sentence was about half of what it was supposed to be to begin with.
I keep hearing people bashing on Walker up here. If he is so terrible, how did he win the recall? He only busted the public employee union because they didn’t want to do any cost sharing on the benefit package. Look what not negotiating do for CTS Union – 1400 pink slips. or them folks – No Paycheck is better then a lower pay check. 1400 jobs lost to that, another 1900 lost in the Assurant deal and another 500 going due to General Mills closing a plant. 3800 Jobs off the tax rolls….
Wait till you see the Job Killing bill moving through Springfield. Of course, it was drafted by the Dems. Its so far out of this world, you would just shake your head in disbelief.
August 3, 2015 at 2:46 pm
Agent says:
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Well, if Blago has to wait until he is very old, I don’t think many would object. He was filthy, but some of the others should also be in jail like Emanuel who probably orchestrated the sale of the seat.
No doubt Walker has plenty of dissenters in Wisconsin. They are still fuming that they couldn’t recall him and keep him from being re-elected.
August 3, 2015 at 4:14 pm
FFA says:
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My guess the pooling folks are not getting in touch with Rural Farmers that I see in the fields bringing in the crops every day instead of sitting by the phone waiting for these pollsters to call.
July 30, 2015 at 3:18 pm
KY jw says:
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You are condemning the entire VA healthcare system based on a small percentage of bad actors. I have only good things to say about the VA care my father and my husband receive.
Good for you KY. You may have one of the few that practice decent medicine. The system as a whole is a bureaucratic nightmare as you may have noticed with their scandals, resignation of the head of it and few firings of the bad actors as you have called it.
Last night on Chicago news. Tammy Duckwrth – Director of Vet Affairs in IL – is being investigated for her “wrong doing” with the VA in IL. A former vet that lost both her legs shafting other vets. Guess she gravitated to politics real easy.
What a waste of time. There is real business that the Congress needs to get done, but they spend their time beating a dead horse. The Republicans were supposed to “get things done” when they won the Senate, but this Congress is worse than the last one. Instead of arguing with the Democrats, they are arguing with each other. These clowns are not capable of governing. I don’t think half these goobers even know why they are there. They are there to do the People’s business and not to pander to their own ideological whims.
So you want some more of that stellar leadership of Pelosi & Reid? They are the biggest dufuses ever in Congress. Under their leadership, we had the sub prime meltdown and passed Obamacare which is the biggest joke ever on the American people.
Fan, they don’t get it because they are low information voters and have swallowed the agenda hook, line & sinker. There are some on this blog who actually voted for Obama twice. They fit in with Dumb & Dumber.
Not hardly Confusedtroll. I don’t change my moniker like many of the leftist trolls on this blog like boogereater and Ins102 who won’t come out of hiding to post under the original moniker. They never have anything to contribute anyway and only insult to their hearts content.
Agent – you may not change monikers, but you certainly give yourself upvotes up the wazoo on every post you make, even when nobody has even bothered to hide your post in the first place!
August 5, 2015 at 9:58 am
JB says:
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Charles,
Not really a waste of time – we’re much better off with a bunch of goobers who don’t get things done than a bunch of grubers who do.
Maybe goobers like to occasionally beat dead horses, while grubers definitely like to beat live ones…maybe yours, maybe mine, but never their own…
Another reason to wipe this off the book.
I applied for my coverage in my new state. BCBS was very helpful and gave me my final balance to 07/31/2015 which I paid. Then they transferred me to the market place where I did apply for my new coverage effective 08/01/2015. They told me I can not cancel my existing policy for 16 days and I could not get my new coverage until then even though they show my new policy in force and my bill due.
FFA, didn’t you say that you couldn’t find a health provider anywhere close to where you live? Regarding your new coverage, did they send an ID card to you showing effective date? Sounds to me like you are double covered for a while and the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
No PPO’s. Closest Doc was 50 + miles away. I had to go HMO. Not even Blue Cross up there. Very few choices. Not sure if it was like that Pre OfnBama Care. But the provider (Doc) seemed to indicate that is the case (Obama Care took away options).
But FFA, I thought Obama said he was increasing access to doctors and hospitals and he was going to save the typical family $2,500 per year on costs. If you like your doctor, you can keep him. If you like your plan, you can keep it. False promises and outright lying are not admirable traits for a leader to have. You are a good example of what happens in the real world instead of the make believe world of Progressive Socialists.
My nightmare continues up there with that. Buying Health Insurance used to be so easy. It used to be so affordable. Max Out of Pocket meant the most you will spend in a year.
Now the Dems leading candidate (Billary) is being investigated for violating National Security Protocol by the FBI. Looks like Il politics have infected DC.
August 10, 2015 at 11:58 am
Agent says:
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FFA, there is no cure for Progressive Socialism and no amount of treatment will cure a diseased mind like they have. The only thing they might try would be a frontal lobotomy and then they can stare at a wall all day with not much going on between the ears.
August 14, 2015 at 10:40 am
Agent says:
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Hi FFA. Hot off the press. Blue Cross of North Carolina just announced that their ACA plans would have rate increases up to 34% shortly. It was telling that the company said that the program wasn’t working out like they expected it to and they are losing money big time. Can you just imagine a policyholder getting a raise like that in the mail?
August 13, 2015 at 10:51 pm
dd says:
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I am one of the people who fell through the cracks. I was moved to part time hours because of ACA. I live on my 29 hour a week paycheck.I make $30.00 a month too much for free health care. Any subsidy, I would have to pay back at the end of the year. If I need the subsidy, why do they think I will have that money at the end of the year? I can not afford health care so I will be fined because I can not afford it. It’s not right.
Not an endorsement, but an indictment of government run anything. Here is a true quote you may be interested in.
“Your children’s children will live under Communism. You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept Communism outright; but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of Socialism until you will finally wake up and find you already have Communism. We won’t have to fight you; We’ll so weaken your Economy, until you fall like overripe fruit into our hands”. Nikita Kruschev, 1959.
Hey Dave, this is a bit off subject, but do you remember the recent story on restaurants and all the leftist commenters bashing Chick Fil A? My son in law sent me a story of one of the franchise owners in northwest Austin who found that his building was inadequate to serve his customers so he decided to expand. He had to close the store for 5 months for this expansion/remodel. While it was closed, he paid all 50 employees their salary and when they came back, he gave them a $1 raise. It goes to show you that there are very successful people in business who do the right thing for employees and no wonder he is doing well.
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I’m not interested in arguing about whether health care is a right or not. I just want it to be affordable and available for everybody. If you truly want to control healthcare costs then you’d be advocating for a universal health care system like the rest of the civilized world has.
The US spends twice as much on healthcare per person than the UK, Canada, Germany, France, etc. And what do we get in terms of outcomes for spending twice as much as other first-world countries? We have lower life expectancies, and higher rates of infant mortality, STDs, obesity and chronic diseases than those other countries.
Our health insurance system blows, and unfortunately Obamacare was a half-assed solution that made the worst of both worlds.
There is only one thing worse than Obamacare and that is Universal Care administered by government bureaucrats with death panels. Please name us one department or agency that is efficient and does the right thing for citizens of this country.
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Dave, private industry corruption goes away as the business folds due to the corruption being exposed.
Govt Corruption just leads to bigger govt so the new govt entity can “keep and eye” on the corrupt wing.
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David, we noticed how effective CDC was during the Ebola scare. What a bunch of inept idiots they were not putting out guidelines to hospitals to diagnose and treat it.
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“The US spends twice as much on healthcare per person than the UK, Canada, Germany, France, etc. And what do we get in terms of outcomes for spending twice as much as other first-world countries? We have lower life expectancies, and higher rates of infant mortality, STDs, obesity and chronic diseases than those other countries. ”
Healthcare expenditures will stop STD’s, obesity, and chronic diseases which come in the form of sexual habits, eating habits, and then genetics?
Each area you just listed won’t be solved by health insurance, and infant mortality when all countries are weighed under the same parameters, we are the top. Different countries don’t even count certain infant deaths as infant mortality. We do. You could see how that impacts infant mortality.
Also, obesity affects infant mortality. So when we weigh equally, we are equal, but our exposure is worse. This means we have better outcomes. The same is true with obesity. We have equal outcomes with even worse scenarios. When we need emergency care to keep us alive, we get it. It’s expensive, but it keeps our fat butts alive.
I also question your ignorant assessment of “if you truly want to control healthcare costs then you’d be advocating for a universal health care system like the rest of the civilized world has. ”
On what grounds?
Because he doesn’t like increasing costs through obamacare he should just go ahead and advocate the extreme other end?
Reducing costs is only done through universal care by reducing coverage. They get a dollar, they pay a 90 cents at most. Insurance companies get a dollar, invest, and give back more than a dollar. You’re in the field. Cost cutting is done through insurance, as well as maximum performance per dollar and capital growth.
When you inhibit capital growth through attempts of cost cutting (obama care) you also make insurance not do what it’s meant to do.
Bob, perhaps the infant mortality has something to do with Planned Parenthood activities. The latest video has them delivering a live baby, then killing it for the parts. What an evil enterprise these people are running.
Abortions are not counted.
Infant mortality however in some countries does not count a fetus that died within a certain range of time. It is a matter of when the country, how many months old, is the baby counted.
Bob, infant mortality is infant mortality no matter if by disease or if Planned Parenthood is facilitating it. Millions have been aborted and never had the chance to be born, grow up, realize potential and be productive citizens. That is just asinine.
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“There’s no debate that the US has been found to have worse health care outcomes compared to other first world nations.”
Then why is it that so many people (including numerous despots) come here to treat death threatening diseases? Kills the rest of your argument.
Agent,
I agree with you that abortions are infant mortality and should be counted in the statistics. The reason they are not is because they are intentional and not a reflection of the quality of health care available.
I also agree that there should be no federal funding to Planned Parenthood if they are in any way associated with abortions.
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Am I David, Am I really?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2014/09/30/infant-mortality-explained/
The reason I don’t post (re-post) facts about healthcare is I don’t need to here.
I’ve already had the debate. Others here make flat out wrong comments and don’t post much beside it.
All you have to do David, is look it up.
On to my other facts:
Countries have cut healthcare costs, but when you look at the primary causes of death, and life expectancies, and then compare obesity rates, smoking rates, and other just plain bad choices, we are unbelievably close.
I don’t need to quote a study on this. Can you think for yourself? It’s pretty obvious when you aren’t delusional and look up obesity statistics. Read some of this book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=bJGthESIu1kC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=obese+life+expectancy+by+country&source=bl&ots=O2ZG7jris6&sig=oaMNRsUrFrMOqY5sp8ZgyxIR-NY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFEQ6AEwB2oVChMI2ei1jN2OxwIVlDOICh07dAbl#v=onepage&q=obese%20life%20expectancy%20by%20country&f=false
An absolutely huge portion of the life expectancy difference (which is small) is explained by our obesity rates.
Another huge chunk is our smoking rates.
An odd one is our vehicular deaths and homicide rates. There is no official study, but we are normally double other countries for crime and vehicular deaths, with vehicular deaths being such a huge issue I don’t know why it isn’t taken more seriously.
Do you even know any of the problems in this country, or do you just spout of talking points?
Do you read?
Really the insanity here is in the leftists here believing they are moderate.
It’s getting really annoying.
I have here alone seen someone suggest to do universal healthcare as the only method of cost control, which is sheer insanity.
We are insurance agents. Did any of you go to school before or after going to your week of classes?
Do ANY of you know how insurance works?
Private healthcare is the best solution, end of story, period. This isn’t up for debate if you know how it works.
They pay out more per dollar than received. They restrict bad claims and pay out on severe claims specifically to have more for severe claims, and to pay out more than a dollar on each claim for what was received. It works. End of story. We aren’t going to keep doing this debate.
The only debate is how to help the poor essentially. Make a public option.
Ended. Done. We don’t need to force everyone into public. That is not moderate.
We don’t need to have no public option. That is not moderate.
Obama care isn’t a good option, and everyone here knows it.
So instead of focusing on the fact that the republicans are trying to replace it, why not focus on the fact that the democrats are trying to KEEP it. They have no intention of changing it. They have no intention of admitting fault with it.
This is the worse of the two actions. Period! End of story!
This debate being redone on an INSURANCE site where we all are in the industry is insulting.
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UW:
“This is false, and a bad way to look at the data. What you are suggesting is to look at only obese people together, which discredits the better systems, which allow for preemptive care to reduce obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc., which are overwhelmingly found in the poor, and are disproportionately high in the US largely because of the system. You are basically saying if you do not count the good parts of the other systems, which we don’t have, we are equal. It’s not the right way to look at the data, and any source analyzing it like this is dishonest; anybody citing the data that knows this is a liar. The infant mortality here is atrocious even when compared only to advanced countries, and it’s almost exclusively due to poverty, and people being incapable of paying for health insurance. Your way of looking at the data looks at the large population here in that category, and the small pockets of people like that in other nations, excluding the majority of people in the country–again, the incorrect way to do this. ”
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. There is no preemptive care for obesity. Other countries have no system in place that is reducing obesity.
The reason I remove obesity is due to the fact that choosing to be obese results in a need for higher cost care.
When other countries have lower obesity rates it is not linked to preemptive care, it is linked to lifestyle choices.
Regarding your other points: Corporate bonuses are not the sole source of these firms.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/25/how-much-money-do-insurance-companies-make-a-primer/?_r=0
What do you notice?
5% growth on this firm. How much of it do you suppose went to bonuses? Even if it was HALF they would have a growth of 2.5% per year. Over 20 years, this is huge. This is how they pay out more than the government. You are in the field, take some classes on how it works. In no circumstances does half of the revenues go to bonuses.
This is sheer insanity. Learn the field, learn to think.
David,
The opinion piece isn’t of relevance, their data is.
I grab multiple pieces of data to show a point. Note that you never directed my data, you went after the source and tried ad hominem on the very fact that I would use an opinion piece. Stay on the damn topic, and don’t debate dishonestly.
Moving on: Clinical treatment for smoking, you have got to be kidding me.
This will be cost ineffective, and really, you can’t force people to do it. When people go on the patch, it works. They don’t want to. Whether it is linked to being poor is irrelevant by the way, and was just inserted to pull at the heart strings. It is choice.
Your sister comment is more “ideology” While you call me an ideologue. I am not an ideologue. I am SOLELY about facts and what is best, and you WILL NOT call me an ideologue as if it is normal speech to someone you speak to. Here’s a hint: It isn’t. See what I did there mimicking you?
My wife had a few kids. We also couldn’t afford the co pays. Newsflash: I’m aware of heart string issues.
I’m also aware the private system can always function better and pay more. If you can afford private insurance, it’s the best route. I also mentioned public as an option, which you clearly didn’t read, for people who cannot afford that.
The problem is you’re not reading, and are arguing with me as if I were agent, who DOES in fact advocate a can’t pay, no treatment IDEOLOGY. And he does argue IDEOLOGY. I do not.
I’m getting rather sick of you leftist extremists acting irate.
So the bottom line david, I MADE A HYPOTHESIS.
I showed data matching up with it, some I didn’t show and told you to look it up yourself.
My hypothesis is such:
Our life expectancy is extremely close to other countries and we have the worst lifestyles. When accounting for obesity and smoking and other factors it can only make sense if our system is saving our butts.
Also: I didn’t just use opinion pieces. Do you know how to read source citations in a book? Like the one I provided you?
He had an opinion, but source cited info, child.
Meaning: READ THE SOURCE DATA.
Idiot. I cannot believe the sheer stupidity of people here, namely you. Stay on topic and debate the points at hand! Debate the concept. Debate the data!
David,
Also, you’re wrong on infant mortality.
Many nations do not count baby’s even born alive who die, if they are less than 500 grams.
Or if the baby dies in the first 24 hours.
Or if the baby isn’t big enough.
Or if it’s a still birth (common)
Or if it’s less than a certain length.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/04/13/financial-times-gets-wrong-infant-mortality-rates/
And while I know you hate Fox News, they are right on the numbers in this other link.
Look it up.
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Well your first statement that there have been no conservative alternatives to Obamacare is a flat out lie. Something that liberals are expert at. http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/06/obamacare-free-market-alternatives/
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So, they are bad for trying to repeal it, because it won’t have a chance to get repealed…
And they are bad for trying because they have no replacement, because it will get repealed!
Wonderful thought process my friend!
Heritage and Cato and their cronies had suggestions regarding a mandate in the 80’s as well.
Just because someone is in politics and in business it doesn’t make them a crony, especially when they try to pass something pertinent to all business and all people, themselves included. To be a cronyist you must be owning government for your businesses specific gain.
You are an extreme leftist not a moderate. I could just as easily make agent’s version of democrats in bed with business.
Instead, let’s make this about the obvious thing that it’s actually about.
He said republicans have alternatives. They do. They tried to pass them.
The plans were not cronist plans. They had merit. They were CBO rated, many with substantial help for the poor. You don’t get to just say “oh that was cronyism, our plan wasn’t!”.
It’s bull crap.
Grow up.
Bull. Crap.
There were upwards of 10, one of which was CBO rated to bring down the cost of insurance by nearly 10%. The democrats refused to acknowledge them though. There were plans to give up to a $5,000 debit card to poor families to buy insurance. Making health insurance tax deductible was another. To say there were no bills is bull crap.
The only reason more people wouldn’t be insured is because no one would be forced to buy a policy.
Being forced to buy a policy is not a benefit.
The yanking you are speaking of I imagine is the people who now have subsidies. These people had health care before. The majority of the insured who weren’t insured before are those who were forced to buy it. So we wouldn’t be yanking anything.
Regardless of whether you like Obamacare or think it’s a miserable failure, this vote is just stupid. Even if it does make it to Obama’s desk, it’s just going to get vetoed, and they’ll never get enough votes to override a veto. This is an exercise in futility and yet another example of why our government is so broken. Instead of focusing on things that can actually be fixed/changed, they waste their time on a vote that’s going to be more symbolic than anything else.
And this isn’t a Republican or Democrat issue. They all do it. They’re all so damned concerned with scoring points against each other, and we’re the ones that suffer because of it.
Wrong.
The only way to change obamacare if you don’t like obamacare is to keep the debate alive, whether or not someone will change it.
Otherwise it becomes the status quo. You push an option, sell it to the public, and if the guy votes against it (and accordingly the whole party) then everyone knows who to vote for next cycle to get a replacement.
What you are advocating for, is complete silence when it comes to bill.
You merely want to shut republicans up, against the logics of how politics work.
This is pure BS, BS.
I don’t want to shut anybody up. Keep the debate alive. That’s great. But you don’t need to have yet another vote to do that.
Even if they do manage to get a bill repealing Obamacare through both houses and to Obama’s desk for a signature, it will just be vetoed. And, they’ll never get enough votes to override it.
Trying to pass yet another bill that won’t go anywhere and won’t accomplish what they want it to, is a just waste of time and effort that can be applied elsewhere.
If they say they have plans, the public will then ask why they didn’t vote on them.
They need to have physical bills they attempted to pass, inclusive of repealing the bill.
You do not hold this same standard to democrats, who repeatedly put options up that would not pass and voted on them.
This is a scenario where you want them to shut up you just don’t realize it. Keeping a bill alive involves constantly putting serious bills up to vote, in order to be taken seriously on your record.
You know Bob, for someone who gets so angry when other people interpret or twist your words to mean something you didn’t intend them to, you sure do it a hell of a lot to everyone else.
I meant exactly what I said. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Obamacare will never be repealed while Obama is still in office. It has already been attempted multiple times and failed each and every time. This new attempt is a waste of time that could be better spent on other issues that they could actually do something about.
Ah, ad hominem when you get caught in crap.
You mean what you say. Exactly. This has no chance of being repealed. But you also don’t want it to be, very clearly.
The republicans who are trying to alter it are bad by default, no matter the route, unless they somehow get it repealed by having enough votes. You put no blame on the democrats who refuse to admit fault or change the law.
The republicans won’t get a super majority, and if they advertise changing Obamacare without a serious plan, you will say they have no plan, even if it is CBO rated.
Voting on plans constantly remains the way to do things.
You are dishonest on this. It’s absurd. Grow up.
Also, child, I do not get angry when people twist my words.
I recently had a spat about that,(which was solely when someone tried to say when I debated about something I clearly did not debate about, and was making me say things I never said, which is clearly not the case here. And by that I mean it was literally impossible to misconstrue my words.) but the primary issue I have is when people prefer to do what you just did.
Ad hominem style debate.
Or character attacks.
Or Fox News attacks.
Again, grow up.
Bob said: “which was solely when someone tried to say when I debated about something I clearly did not debate about, and was making me say things I never said, which is clearly not the case here. And by that I mean it was literally impossible to misconstrue my words…”
But this is exactly what you are doing to me. All I have said is that due to the current layout of the Legislative and Executive branches of the government, it is impossible for Obamacare to be repealed AT THIS TIME; and that I believe that time could be better spent focusing on issues that can be affected, rather than continuing to vote on something that can’t be changed AT THIS TIME.
That’s it.
YOU are the one saying that I don’t want them to continue discussing it.
YOU are the one saying that I ‘clearly’ don’t want the bill repealed.
YOU are the one saying I wouldn’t hold the Democrats to the same standards if the roles were reversed.
YOU are the one saying that I would say they didn’t have a plan if they didn’t vote on it, now.
I have never said anything like that. I’m fine with continued debate on the ACA. I’m NOT a big fan of it, and I DON’T care if it gets repealed. I would be just as irritated with the Democrats if they did something similar. I would be interested to hear what they would plan to do if they were able to repeal the ACA – ie. just flat out repeal or repeal and replace it with something else?
YOU are the one who has labeled ME as an evil progressive liberal that just wants to see the Republican party burn. YOU are the one who is so blinded by your own partisanship that you attack me for saying something that YOU EVEN AGREED WITH when SOMEONE ELSE said it:
Agent Says: “Bob, if any change amendments were ever passed like getting rid of the onerous mandates to start with, they would also be vetoed by Obama. We have to wait until he is gone to do anything substantial like repeal and start over.”
Bob Says: “Your comment is true, but I’m trying to keep him focused.”
I just don’t get it. Are you really that hard up for a fight that you’ll twist a relatively innocuous comment into something completely different, just so you can have something to rail against?
+1,000,000 for your calm and rational responses in this part of the comment section, BS.
I will not interject anything into your conversation with bob on these points right now, except to say: I appreciate your level-headedness in dealing with the items you just laid out.
Like I’ve said to you before, I may not always agree with you, but I definitely respect how you comment around here.
I hope bob replies to you directly so your discussion with him can continue.
Thanks, Rosenblatt. And I’ll say the same to you. Ever since you first started commenting, I’ve been very impressed with how you handle yourself. The discussions and debates on this board can be great, but too often devolve into attacks and insults. I really appreciate your efforts at trying to stop some of the vitriol that tends to flow when the arguments get too heated.
(insert “gross guys, get a room” comment here :)
Allow me to prove what I just stated:
How would someone go about politically changing Obamacare?
Point out to me the proper process, which would legitimately have a chance of working.
Demonstrate the differences from what is being done now. Demonstrate what is unacceptable.
Think you can do that?
Q: How would someone go about politically changing Obamacare?
A: Win the White House and/or even more seats in Congress.
Winning the White House is a start. We don’t need to win more seats in Congress since there is a majority already and a Republican President will not veto what they pass.
That’s true. However, to get past some of the procedural crap (like the current filibusterer,) a larger majority would be helpful.
Winning the house on what basis based on the topics?
Your solution here is absurd.
Win before advertisement?
How would they advertise they support the change? Just say it?
We know how well that works when politicians are constantly called liars.
Again, guide me through the process.
How will they win the white house without voting on bills?
As someone above said, he thinks the republicans had no bills.
Obama didn’t let these bills go up for vote, or rather people like you didn’t. It caused a flame war.
How will they win the white house? Just “say” and “promise” they will vote on bills that have never existed?
Do you have any idea how biased you are being? This just shows how much of a biased person you are, whereas you think it’s the opposite.
You actually think your comments on this are against all politics. It’s astounding to me.
This is how politics works, but if republicans actually do it, it’s reason to not vote for them.
If they don’t do it you have no reason to trust they will pass what they say. As people said with Romney, and as Ron says with republicans.
For crying out loud. Just knock it off.
The American public is already well aware of the GOP’s stance on Obamacare. All they need to do is say “We’ve tried to repeal Obamacare X times with no success. If you want it gone, you’re going to need to elect [insert Republican candidate] to office.” They don’t need to try and fail to repeal it again to prove anything.
Which you have already said, is a dead issue, and you and others have lambasted them for holding on to it, and saying they will remove it when they go to presidency.
You have set up a no win scenario for republicans.
Also, you say people are well aware:
RON IS NOT.
He thinks they would have potentially put it in place without Obama and has said it many times. Many MODERATES make this claim.
To win the presidency, you must have MODERATES and apparently you don’t know them very well BS.
I get mad at them often, but I know them.
Your scenario does not allow the republicans to vote and show their record, which moderates WILL go to.
They don’t care what a person says when they run. They care about visible plans.
If republicans have ones they tried to pass, which is their JOB not to just pass democrat bills, then they can show why they should be voted in.
I didn’t say it’s a dead issue. I said they had no chance of repealing Obamacare with the current layout of the Legislative and Executive branches of the government. That doesn’t mean the issue is dead. Just that they can’t do anything about it right now. And, I specifically said that if they wanted to repeal it, they needed to win the White House and more seats in Congress.
I have never lambasted Republicans for holding onto their desire to repeal Obamacare. I honestly don’t care about the ACA one way or the other. My irritation stems from the almost 70 different attempts to repeal, defund or change the law, even though they KNOW it will never make it past Obama’s desk. I have to think that the time and effort they put into, say 50 of those attempts could have been better spent on other issues.
They already have almost 70 votes on record regarding Obamacare. They don’t need another one to prove they don’t like it and would get rid of it if elected.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/03/politics/obamacare-repeal-vote-house/
And for the record, I would be just as irritated with the Democrats if the roles were reversed, and they were the ones who kept trying to repeal something they had no chance at repealing.
There comes a point where you have to accept that you can not change something in it’s current environment. That’s when you have to step back, determine what you would need to make that change, and focus on getting those things in place so that you can make that change a little down the road.
Bob, if any change amendments were ever passed like getting rid of the onerous mandates to start with, they would also be vetoed by Obama. We have to wait until he is gone to do anything substantial like repeal and start over.
Your comment is true, but I’m trying to keep him focused.
In order to keep this alive we need to keep a constant flow of bills alive and options for the public to know what alternatives there were, who blocked it, and hold people accountable.
I have far too often seen people say that alternates weren’t available and blame republicans. I have far too often seen people say the republicans could have passed something, why didn’t they try.
But now on this, they want them silent.
Really this is just manipulation. I’m not sure if BS is doing it intentionally or just parroting others who do intentionally in politics, but this kind of behavior needs to stop.
The “shut up and don’t do anything” not surprisingly, doesn’t get anything done.
Bob, the Progressive Liberals, when they were in power basically told Republicans to get on the back of the bus because it was going to be done their way. Then, Pelosi said they had to pass it to see what was in it and then Gruber told all his famous lies about it. Now, the mantra is “why didn’t Republicans offer a different plan”? They did, but it was dismissed out of hand. We are just going to have to wait for about 18 months to get a viable plan done to replace this nightmare.
Thank you for understanding what I meant and not automatically assuming that there was nefarious intent behind it, Agent.
You do have either ignorance of what is best for politics, or nefarious intent.
This is pure insanity. Clinton took these same methods, so have democrats. In order to keep a healthcare option alive they have tried to pass it on their own every time. Clinton care died. Obama care didn’t.
It is about keeping it alive and keeping the people’s eyes on the votes. This is how politics works. But suddenly if republicans do it it’s just stupid.
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“Republicans have been in control of Congress for over 7 months and have accomplished nothing.”
So as long as they try to pass their plans, with a president who works with them, they are bad.
Gotcha. Explain to me what they should have done? You say you don’t want Obamacare, here people are voting to repeal it, and you won’t give them your vote specifically because they are doing that when it can’t be done, the person making it not able to be done, and people, are democrats.
It is irrelevant if democrats have tried to repeal something 25 times (it’s actually a lot more than it) due to this: FALSE EQUIVALENCY. The public doesn’t want it. The republicans are doing their job voting to remove it. It does NOT waste tax payer money. You must prove them voting on this bill stopped other bills. It didn’t.
Moving on: So then, you agree that republicans are not extreme enough to refuse to repeal something when in power? You forget to realize WHY democrats don’t often do such a thing. Republicans don’t often pass an undesired plan.
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So BS, you said you said you would be just as irritated if the Democrats tried to repeal something that had no chance of being repealed. Can you cite one instance where Republicans passed legislation in our history that was totally partisan and rammed it down the Democrats throats? Obamacare was totally unique, was based on total fabrication, lies, coercion as has come out in the past 5 years. It is no wonder we have had so much objection to it. Progressive Socialists have dreamed of controlling healthcare for 100 years. When they made a huge mess, they now want Republicans to clean up the mess they made.
Agent, I’m not arguing for Obamacare. I’m not particularly a fan of it myself and wouldn’t lose any sleep if it was repealed. So, it’s not the fact that Republicans want to get rid of it that’s irritating me. Its the futility of the almost 70 votes that could have been applied elsewhere.
Ron, you have had almost 7 years of the savior you voted for twice. Please name one thing he will agree to with Republicans that don’t have to do with Progressive programs he wants to install. He promises vetos on anything they want to do. I will say that he is consistent with his agenda. At the end of his term, he will have nothing but a huge mess for the next Republican President to overturn and the next President will have writers cramps from cancelling all those Executive orders and reversing bad legislation, firing agency heads at EPA, IRS and numerous others.
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Ron, are you in total brain lock? Obama is your guy, you voted for him twice thinking he was wonderful and obviously the best choice over a businessman. Did you happen to notice that a businessman is leading the polls over the professional politicians? We have to get this country back to work and that won’t be accomplished unless we put someone in office who understands business, is not beholden to special interests and can focus on what is really important so the country can be great again. It is appalling how this country has gone down in just 7 years.
Move on guys…. Just move on.
Hi FFA, I will try to change the subject and ask you how your wife is doing now and how does she like living in Wisconsin? My wife is marginally better, but still has her medical issues. A few weeks ago, she had a place on her bicep that looked like an ugly bruise with a knot under it. She went in for a sonogram, waited a week and asked what the results were. They said her arm was normal. Tell me, what is normal about having a knot in the muscle? The bruise is fading, but not the knot. They said they could refer her to a surgeon if she liked. Our PA daughter said to wait another 2 weeks and if it is still the same, to call another doctor. Sometimes I think that her GP graduated in the lower 50% of her class.
Its a Fibro Knot. Massage it our for her. Ice it down. I spend at least one hour a day doing that for my honey. The stubborn ones take time and effort. My wife works her self to exhaustion, does the crash & burn for a day or two, feels better then hits it hard again and the cycle continues.
We all love it up there. Our river frontage is a beautiful thing. The never ending stream of wild life. Should have opened up shop there back in 1990 instead of IL. Its a way better way of life. It has loosened up funds for more fun things. So the kids are loving it. The Casino draws some good entertainment. My wife wants to see Tanya Tucker. Not really my thing, but I’ll go see 38 Special.
The news is way different up there too. I go weeks with out hearing about a shooting, kidnapping, a corrupt politician, State Govt throwing mud at each other, ect…. Even the local politicians are “corrupt Free”.
So relaxing. A way better way of life…..
Good for you FFA. I am glad you like it up there. I hope you are far enough back from the river that you never have a flood issue on your home. We have had some flooding issues down here earlier this spring in some northern areas, not mine. The good news is that all the lakes are full and many are above normal levels.
I want this repealed with a viable option put in place as much as everyone, but McConnel can go to hell. How about our elected officials focus on what we NEED them to focus on, like decimating this horrifying Iranian Nuclear “Deal” and permanently defunding any and all tax payer contributions to Planned Parenthood? The time is now. Get a clue you moronic, bureaucratic assbags.
UW, I want to see clean, one issue bills put to vote, not being put on amendments to unrelated bills like the Highway Bill. This practice of putting bills forth with tons of amendments is a joke and should be abolished. It is time to get things done and if the President wants to be an obstructionist, he has the pen and he will be blamed.
They way bills are handled in Congress is absolutely insane. I was watching Last Week Tonight earlier this week, and when John Oliver described what happened to a bill when it went from the House to the Senate, it made my head spin.
A Republican Representative proposed a bill, H.R. 644, that would would give tax incentives to food-service companies and farms that donate surplus food that would otherwise be discarded. The bill, named the America Gives More Act of 2015, passed the House and was sent over to the Senate.
While in the House, H.R. 644 was relatively small and straightforward. However, once in the Senate, it was completely gutted and refilled with language about border control, copyright infringement, and trade agreements with Israel and Korea. H.R. 644 passed the Senate, but as the Trade Facilitation and Trade Enforcement Act of 2015, and without one word about incentives for food donation.
It’s absolutely insane.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-john-oliver-food-waste-in-america-20150720-story.html
*sigh*
Pretty much. :/
Huh. I could have sworn my reply was higher up and in response to someone posting the SNL spoof of Schoolhouse Rock. Did it get deleted?
Ron would tell you that you don’t know how to reply correctly. I have done the same thing right under what I was replying to and it would be found 20 replies below.
Yeah. It’s kind of bizarre. When I said, “Huh. I could have sworn…,” my original “*sigh*” comment was the last comment at the bottom of the page. Now, it’s moved back up here. (the Schoolhouse Rock comment I was originally responding to is still gone)
It is nice to know that it’s a tech glitch and not user error, though. ;)
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McConnell is just an old RINO who has been in office too long to get the will of the people. He did hold a little press conference yesterday to say he will put forth the bill defunding Planned Parenthood next week. We will see if he follows through. He may be surprised that several Democrats may support defunding and may override the veto sure to come from Obama. Obama still praises Planned Parenthood no matter how bad they are. How Presidential!
If you like your Government service at DMV and the VA, you’ll like your Socialized Universal Healthcare.
Yes Yogi, I am a veteran, but wouldn’t consider using VA facilities since I had a relative die due to their ineptitude and two current friends were misdiagnosed and not treated properly and both had to be treated by other doctors and hospitals or they would be dead by now.
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How is this for ineptitude Planettroll? One guy was diagnosed with a cancerous growth on his neck. The VA wanted to operate and also take out lymph nodes under his arms and then start radiation. His son said to dad, whoa. Let’s get a second opinion before doing that. Took him to MD Anderson in Houston, one of the best cancer hospitals in the world. After running numerous tests, they found not one cancer cell in his body. Good thing they didn’t let the VA proceed. The other one was gall bladder. The man stayed in the hospital for a week with nothing going on and treated it with antibiotics. He kept getting worse and they said they didn’t have a General Surgeon to operate on him. He left and came back home, saw a local doctor who said after tests, we need to get you into surgery right away because of the spread of infection. The surgeon said if he had waited another week, he would have died. Of course, the relative that died at the VA was because they kept him immobile after major surgery for a whole month. When they got him up finally, he threw an embolism which went right to his heart and killed him. There is a good reason why doctors want to get a patient up and walking around as soon after surgery as possible. VA doctors are the worst.
Planettroll?!!! Hahahaha! Agent, you always have the best jokes! And as always, great points about the VA! You really know how to keep the wheel spinnin’!
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Not so reliable Planet. They are miserably inefficient and no wonder they are costing taxpayers so much. Despite numerous increases in stamp costs, they don’t change their ways. I can get correspondence from 200 miles away faster than I can get it from across town because they changed the service center processing it so they have to transport mail to it, process it and send it back to my town. What a deal. You can’t get much more inefficient than that. They also sling mail around at the P.O. box and often get our mail mixed up with someone else or they get our mail which delays receipt.
Anything is possible Dave. Its possible that Obama is sitting on evidence to clear Blago. Its more likely that he has something to say that proves he is just another Il politician with deeper ties to convicted felons like Rezco & Levine then we know about.
So FFA, do you think Blago will get out for good behavior or continue to serve it out? If he does get out, he will probably have to sign a non-disclosure agreement and not talk about what happened at all.
He had some of the convictions over turned. Something the judge didn’t allow. He goes in for re-sentencing on the remaining charges. According to the reports I have seen, he may not get any time off as the original sentence was about half of what it was supposed to be to begin with.
I keep hearing people bashing on Walker up here. If he is so terrible, how did he win the recall? He only busted the public employee union because they didn’t want to do any cost sharing on the benefit package. Look what not negotiating do for CTS Union – 1400 pink slips. or them folks – No Paycheck is better then a lower pay check. 1400 jobs lost to that, another 1900 lost in the Assurant deal and another 500 going due to General Mills closing a plant. 3800 Jobs off the tax rolls….
Wait till you see the Job Killing bill moving through Springfield. Of course, it was drafted by the Dems. Its so far out of this world, you would just shake your head in disbelief.
Well, if Blago has to wait until he is very old, I don’t think many would object. He was filthy, but some of the others should also be in jail like Emanuel who probably orchestrated the sale of the seat.
No doubt Walker has plenty of dissenters in Wisconsin. They are still fuming that they couldn’t recall him and keep him from being re-elected.
My guess the pooling folks are not getting in touch with Rural Farmers that I see in the fields bringing in the crops every day instead of sitting by the phone waiting for these pollsters to call.
You are condemning the entire VA healthcare system based on a small percentage of bad actors. I have only good things to say about the VA care my father and my husband receive.
Good for you KY. You may have one of the few that practice decent medicine. The system as a whole is a bureaucratic nightmare as you may have noticed with their scandals, resignation of the head of it and few firings of the bad actors as you have called it.
Last night on Chicago news. Tammy Duckwrth – Director of Vet Affairs in IL – is being investigated for her “wrong doing” with the VA in IL. A former vet that lost both her legs shafting other vets. Guess she gravitated to politics real easy.
May I add that since I have moved out of IL, I have not heard one dirty politician story in the WI news.
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So you want some more of that stellar leadership of Pelosi & Reid? They are the biggest dufuses ever in Congress. Under their leadership, we had the sub prime meltdown and passed Obamacare which is the biggest joke ever on the American people.
Pelosi & Reid? More like Dumb & Dumber! And Agent, you are exactly right! Sub prime meltdown! Sheesh, how do these socialist not get it?
Fan, they don’t get it because they are low information voters and have swallowed the agenda hook, line & sinker. There are some on this blog who actually voted for Obama twice. They fit in with Dumb & Dumber.
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Not hardly Confusedtroll. I don’t change my moniker like many of the leftist trolls on this blog like boogereater and Ins102 who won’t come out of hiding to post under the original moniker. They never have anything to contribute anyway and only insult to their hearts content.
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Charles,
Not really a waste of time – we’re much better off with a bunch of goobers who don’t get things done than a bunch of grubers who do.
Maybe goobers like to occasionally beat dead horses, while grubers definitely like to beat live ones…maybe yours, maybe mine, but never their own…
Another reason to wipe this off the book.
I applied for my coverage in my new state. BCBS was very helpful and gave me my final balance to 07/31/2015 which I paid. Then they transferred me to the market place where I did apply for my new coverage effective 08/01/2015. They told me I can not cancel my existing policy for 16 days and I could not get my new coverage until then even though they show my new policy in force and my bill due.
FFA, didn’t you say that you couldn’t find a health provider anywhere close to where you live? Regarding your new coverage, did they send an ID card to you showing effective date? Sounds to me like you are double covered for a while and the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
No PPO’s. Closest Doc was 50 + miles away. I had to go HMO. Not even Blue Cross up there. Very few choices. Not sure if it was like that Pre OfnBama Care. But the provider (Doc) seemed to indicate that is the case (Obama Care took away options).
But FFA, I thought Obama said he was increasing access to doctors and hospitals and he was going to save the typical family $2,500 per year on costs. If you like your doctor, you can keep him. If you like your plan, you can keep it. False promises and outright lying are not admirable traits for a leader to have. You are a good example of what happens in the real world instead of the make believe world of Progressive Socialists.
My nightmare continues up there with that. Buying Health Insurance used to be so easy. It used to be so affordable. Max Out of Pocket meant the most you will spend in a year.
Now the Dems leading candidate (Billary) is being investigated for violating National Security Protocol by the FBI. Looks like Il politics have infected DC.
FFA, there is no cure for Progressive Socialism and no amount of treatment will cure a diseased mind like they have. The only thing they might try would be a frontal lobotomy and then they can stare at a wall all day with not much going on between the ears.
Hi FFA. Hot off the press. Blue Cross of North Carolina just announced that their ACA plans would have rate increases up to 34% shortly. It was telling that the company said that the program wasn’t working out like they expected it to and they are losing money big time. Can you just imagine a policyholder getting a raise like that in the mail?
I am one of the people who fell through the cracks. I was moved to part time hours because of ACA. I live on my 29 hour a week paycheck.I make $30.00 a month too much for free health care. Any subsidy, I would have to pay back at the end of the year. If I need the subsidy, why do they think I will have that money at the end of the year? I can not afford health care so I will be fined because I can not afford it. It’s not right.
Thank you Obamacare!
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Not an endorsement, but an indictment of government run anything. Here is a true quote you may be interested in.
“Your children’s children will live under Communism. You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept Communism outright; but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of Socialism until you will finally wake up and find you already have Communism. We won’t have to fight you; We’ll so weaken your Economy, until you fall like overripe fruit into our hands”. Nikita Kruschev, 1959.
Thanks to Obama, we are almost there!
Hey Dave, this is a bit off subject, but do you remember the recent story on restaurants and all the leftist commenters bashing Chick Fil A? My son in law sent me a story of one of the franchise owners in northwest Austin who found that his building was inadequate to serve his customers so he decided to expand. He had to close the store for 5 months for this expansion/remodel. While it was closed, he paid all 50 employees their salary and when they came back, he gave them a $1 raise. It goes to show you that there are very successful people in business who do the right thing for employees and no wonder he is doing well.