Is it just me, or does it seem John the Revelator was off just a little in his narrative. The mark won’t be on the forehead or hand…it will be in my wallet.
The price of freedom is sometimes being open to attack by the ‘bad’ guys. The more government knows about its citizens, the less free they will be. The beauracracy exists to tell us how to live our lives and give us the means (thru taking our dollars in taxes) to do it.
Hey let’s all pay for an extra layer of beaurocracy so we can carry our ‘papers’ with us at all times, to prove that we are not terrorizers!
And, to boot, we’ll create a massive information database to centralize information which was previously decentralized, making it very easy for hackers to steal a complete information picture in one place rather than being forced to compromose a multitide of systems to piece together incomplete information?
The decentralized databases? They’re are already centralized. They are called Equifax, TRW, and Trans Union. They are already one stop shopping for ID thieves.
If it really made it harder for illegals to use our SS # to work I’d be all for it. If it would really stop them from getting into the country, I’d be all for it.
But I just don’t see it really accomplishing anything except financially draining states.
Let me guess, the next time there is an attack, (and we know they will not stop with 9/11), what finger, if you have any left, are you going to point at the government demanding why didn’t “they” do everything to protect you. You can’t have it both ways. Reality must knock on our door, and I rather it be sooner than later.
Like I said, if I really thought it would go the way they say it would…..
I live in Fla. So basically, my theory is that I would probably NEVER be allowed to take any domestic flights. Fla can’t follow rules. (can’t count, either, but that’s another story)
I don’t have a problem with the ID’s. I just think if we’re going to do it this way, it should be a NATIONAL driver’s license. Letting each state interpret the rules leads to nothing being accomplished.
It seems to me that we already have a national identity card. It’s called a passport. I don’t use my license to board planes now. Why would I start? DHS really wants a national ID but wants to stick the states with paying for it. Is this an admission that the passport issuance process is flawed but the feds don’t want to fix that? Or is it that they just don’t want to pay for it?
Can’t fix it. Besides, we’re not talking about citizenship. We’re talking about indentification- since it looks like illegals might start getting drivers licenses. (and, since we can’t stop the illegals, at least we’d be getting some kind of ID on them)
IMHO, starting over with a new ID would be the ONLY way to really be sure. Scrap the rest. It only adds to the confusion. I don’t care if has fingerprints- that way if someone did try to ‘buy’ one, the fingerprints would stop a good portion of them. That way it could read citizen, non-citizen, etc. You use your passport to board a plane- but what about a traffic stop? This would take the question of ‘who’s job is it to verify citizenship’ out of the equation. What about being wanted in Ohio, but going to Fla to start over? How many felons, murderers, pedophiles, etc would be in jail right now if the ID was national and followed them? As it is, they get picked up for DUI, spend a week in lock up, and no one ever bothers to see that they’re wanted in three other states for murder.
All valid points but unrelated to the issue at hand. “Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff argues that the law fixes a critical gap in security identified by the commission that investigated the 9/11 attacks….” It seems to me that Chertoff is attempting to identify foreign terrorists, not pedophiles from Wisconsin or whatever. And my SC drivers license works just fine when I am asked to present it for non-air travel issues. Heck, I had to show my social security card and a passport or birth certificate to get the license. If Chertoff wants to address foreign terrorists, aside from being more effective at our borders (I can still walk into Canada at many places without any challenge), he should be addressing the issue of the weakness of passports. Not harrassing U.S. citizens wanting to go visit their grandparents at Christmas time. It is the Federal government’s primary responsibility to provide national security. So don’t try passing the responsibility and cost onto the states.
You’re expecting someone in the gov’t to stand up, be honest, take responsibility, and take action????? Wow. Do you want world peace and a pony for Xmas?? ;-)
I don’t care what the current cause ‘de jour’ is. I’m all for it. Cathing felons would be a bonus point for me.
And SC sounds tougher then Fla to get a drivers license. No photo id necessary down here. Birth cert and SS card, which are easy enough to get illegally.
Like I said, a national ID with fingerprints would not only catch any terrorists threats, it would catch felons, and it would put a serious dent in illegals.
IF it worked the way it’s supposed to. If it’s left up to individual states, it won’t.
Since I didn’t ask why the feds didn’t prevent the attacks on 9/11/01 I doubt I would ask after any future attacks. There is a tradeoff between liberty and security. I for one vote for greater liberty at the expense of greater security. I realize that makes it easier for others to harm me, but it also allows me to live my life with less interference.
Gee, wasn’t Nazi Germany a terrible place? They had ID #’s for everyone, you had to show papers everywhere you traveled, if the gov’t didn’t like what you said they’d throw you in jail, take all your money or kill you, and the gov’t yelled in their faces non-stop that the highest duty was to the homeland (oops! I mean “fatherland”). Golly gee whiz, that would never happen here in the good ole USA!
As H.L. Mencken, a writer who is not known by the masses today because he writes too well and the masses can’t be torn away from their beer, football and Jessica Simpson to bother actually reading, said “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”
You’re comparing apples and oranges. The Nazi gov’t were the only ones in the country with guns and bombs. Different times.
Now every idiot with a computer can build a bomb, any Wendy’s in the country can have another idiot with a gun, getting on an airplane means taking your life in your hands, and the Gov’t taking everything you own is the least of your worries. Now it’s ‘can I get home from the mall alive and with my wallet’.
Back in Nazi Germany, they shot people without papers. Today we applaud their ability to reproduce on a yearly basis and pay them to sit back and reproduce some more.
Criminals were shot. Now we release them to carry on their lives in other states undetected.
Am I saying terrorism is the big reason for a National ID? Sure, if that gets it done. Keeping track of criminals, illegals, and possibly putting even a small dent in identity theft is a side effect I can live with.
One wonders what would have happened if the New ID Card, now demanded, had been available to J.Edgard Hoover? A wise man once said: “Those who sacrifice liberty for security will end up with neither one.”
“First they came…” is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892—1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
This is exactly what we are now going through with the Department of Homeland Security. Our Government Bureaucrats are the reincarnation of the Nazi Brown shirts.
We will have neither Liberty nor security.
The immigration mess is a red herring promulgated by these Brown shirts and you are buying into it. How would you like to be of Spanish ancestry and try to prove you are an American citizen. Very much like the WW11 Japanese internments.
We need to grow up and take responsibility not ask the government to take care of us.
when “asked in 1971 about the correct version of the quote, Niemöller said he was not quite sure when he had said the famous words but, if people insist upon citing them, he preferred this version:
“In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.”
My God Jasper & LLH! Two people who can actually think for themselves! You’re not welcome in these parts. As someone in an earlier post quoted Mencken, allow me to include two of his quotes that apply to this situation (and virtually any other where “government” is involved):
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are.”
And one more:
“The fact is that the average man’s love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty — and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies.”
I don’t know where you live, but here in Fla, this ‘immigration mess’ is most definitely NOT a red herring. Our hospitals, welfare system, and criminal system are over run with illegals. Our roads are among the worst in the nation due to such a large population of no license or insurance among illegal immigrants. Our wages are dropping due to illegals accepting lower wages. Our schools are failing due to non-english speaking majority in a large percentage of them. The IRS is seizing money everyday from people like us because some illegal is using their SS# to work.
Before anyone gets up in arms about me being prejudice, I’m not. Let them come here, let them work. Let them PAY TAXES, HEALTH CARE, AND AUTO INSURANCE like the rest of us. The wages will take care of themselves if they can’t afford to work for less due to having to pay their own bills. And yes, if they choose to come here to live, I do expect them to at least learn passing English, as I would if I chose to live in their country.
But, in the meantime, the issue of illegal immigration is NOT a red herring. It is actually an issue that the gov’t has failed to even begin to address.
We have no idea who has come here- what they’re background is, if they are wanted in their ‘homeland’ for any violent crimes. I’m willing to ‘suffer’ through having a national ID if we can put some kind of handle on it.
You are correct “It is actually an issue that the gov’t has failed to even begin to address.”
Our government must be willing to allow more Legals to come here and work. The 10,000 quota will not suffice in this job market that is why we have the mounting illegal problem. If we would give them work visas then they would have papers and I would not have to show mine every time I want to go across state lines or board and airplane.
“We have no idea who has come here, what they’re background is, if they are wanted in their ‘homeland’ for any violent crimes.”
This is also true we need to address this with legal immigration make it less expensive for legals to cross the border and have background checks before they get here.
I’m not “willing to ‘suffer’ through having a national ID” and “we can put some kind of handle on it.” Working with other governments to allow legal immigration.
Most only want to be able to send money home but once here cannot migrate back and forth because it is too expensive if not almost impossible to go ‘Home’ after coming here to work.
We (as in the Fed Gov’t) have been unwilling/unable to work with other nations to allow more legal immigration. Nations such as Cuba would NOT be willing to work with us, since many of the legal Cuban immigrants are here under political refugee status. These are people basically sneaking out of their own country, then sneaking into ours. And, since those countries are MORE then happy to ship their criminal element here I wouldn’t trust them, anyway. There are several such countries in that condition.
Personally, I also believe that if we ended the ‘free ride’ the number of people showing up with their hand out would go down. We need to be an “only those willing to work and pay their way can apply nation”. But, yes, I do believe, as you do, that those people should be given an easier, cheaper way to be legal. And those that can support their families here should be given a way to bring them.
But, until that is the case, it is our responsibility to govern who enters our home, why not our nation? We already hand over the information in question to numerous agencies on a daily basis. As I mentioned, the credit bureaus have more then the Federal Gov’t will ever have on us, even with a national ID. To get a driver’s license, insurance license, etc. So why not make it one national database? I’m just not seeing a huge difference between one database vs another in the realm of privacy.
It has definitely been an interesting conversation.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
No offense, G, but quoting someone that died over 100 years ago with regard to privacy is a bit antiquated. These days we are a nation of “give up essential liberty to purchase a little” of anything cheap on the internet.
Our information is out there. Benjamin Franklin had no idea that within century of his statement all you had to do was turn on a computer to find just about anything on anyone. The moment we are born and assigned a SS# our lives become a forum for anyone with the right passwords. Or, unfortuantely, hacker skills. I’d rather use that fact to stop criminals then hide from it and pretend we can get away from it.
Have a good weeekend. It’s been interesting.
Dawn, did you actually write “We (as in the Fed Gov’t)?” You actually believe that the government is “us?” You’re serious? The “government” is nothing more than individual men and women who get their money by violence or the threat thereof. They have absolutely no duty or obligation to provide anything to you, me or anyone else; no law student can get through his first year without learning that. In fact , “learning that” is putting it mildly. The “government” has repeated that-that it has no duty or obligation to provide anything-hundreds of times over the past 200 years. In fact when someone is foolish enough to bring suit against the “government” for failing to “do their duty” the first thing the “government” does is bring that in as a “defense;” and, big surprise here, the “judge” always throws the case out.
If you actually believe that the “government” is “us” or “we” and that they have any “duty” towards us, I’ve got some wonderful land in Florida (or anywhere else your heart desires) that I’ll sell you-for a great price too!
Dawn we (I) did not give my privacy up willingly it was taken from me by Corporate America and our Government. Albeit little by little over the last 20-30- years. All the credit reporting and info gathering was done by lying to us about what and how they would use it. Now these companies want to tell me that they can protect what they’ve stolen.. I don’t think so!
The National ID card is the next to last straw in Orwell’s tale next comes the “Health Chip” implanted in you directly. Are you ready?
Yes it has been interesting and so far appears civil… Have a great weekend
You already gave up all of that perfect freedom you think you have when you got your birth certificate, drivers license, passport, voter registration card, social security number and all the other necessities of modern life. We give up a little (maybe a lot) of freedom to live in an organized and civilized world. I really fail to see how this one id is going to end freedom as we know it. Just my opinion.
Give it up Dawn. The true paranoia of some of the posters finally has hit the fan. The black helicopters will be overhead any minute. People like Jasper don’t learn from the past, they live in it.
Is it just me, or does it seem John the Revelator was off just a little in his narrative. The mark won’t be on the forehead or hand…it will be in my wallet.
The price of freedom is sometimes being open to attack by the ‘bad’ guys. The more government knows about its citizens, the less free they will be. The beauracracy exists to tell us how to live our lives and give us the means (thru taking our dollars in taxes) to do it.
The older I get, the less I like it.
Hey let’s all pay for an extra layer of beaurocracy so we can carry our ‘papers’ with us at all times, to prove that we are not terrorizers!
And, to boot, we’ll create a massive information database to centralize information which was previously decentralized, making it very easy for hackers to steal a complete information picture in one place rather than being forced to compromose a multitide of systems to piece together incomplete information?
Like the beer commercials say…. “brilliant!”
The decentralized databases? They’re are already centralized. They are called Equifax, TRW, and Trans Union. They are already one stop shopping for ID thieves.
If it really made it harder for illegals to use our SS # to work I’d be all for it. If it would really stop them from getting into the country, I’d be all for it.
But I just don’t see it really accomplishing anything except financially draining states.
Let me guess, the next time there is an attack, (and we know they will not stop with 9/11), what finger, if you have any left, are you going to point at the government demanding why didn’t “they” do everything to protect you. You can’t have it both ways. Reality must knock on our door, and I rather it be sooner than later.
LIVE FREE OR DIE
Like I said, if I really thought it would go the way they say it would…..
I live in Fla. So basically, my theory is that I would probably NEVER be allowed to take any domestic flights. Fla can’t follow rules. (can’t count, either, but that’s another story)
I don’t have a problem with the ID’s. I just think if we’re going to do it this way, it should be a NATIONAL driver’s license. Letting each state interpret the rules leads to nothing being accomplished.
It seems to me that we already have a national identity card. It’s called a passport. I don’t use my license to board planes now. Why would I start? DHS really wants a national ID but wants to stick the states with paying for it. Is this an admission that the passport issuance process is flawed but the feds don’t want to fix that? Or is it that they just don’t want to pay for it?
Can’t fix it. Besides, we’re not talking about citizenship. We’re talking about indentification- since it looks like illegals might start getting drivers licenses. (and, since we can’t stop the illegals, at least we’d be getting some kind of ID on them)
IMHO, starting over with a new ID would be the ONLY way to really be sure. Scrap the rest. It only adds to the confusion. I don’t care if has fingerprints- that way if someone did try to ‘buy’ one, the fingerprints would stop a good portion of them. That way it could read citizen, non-citizen, etc. You use your passport to board a plane- but what about a traffic stop? This would take the question of ‘who’s job is it to verify citizenship’ out of the equation. What about being wanted in Ohio, but going to Fla to start over? How many felons, murderers, pedophiles, etc would be in jail right now if the ID was national and followed them? As it is, they get picked up for DUI, spend a week in lock up, and no one ever bothers to see that they’re wanted in three other states for murder.
All valid points but unrelated to the issue at hand. “Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff argues that the law fixes a critical gap in security identified by the commission that investigated the 9/11 attacks….” It seems to me that Chertoff is attempting to identify foreign terrorists, not pedophiles from Wisconsin or whatever. And my SC drivers license works just fine when I am asked to present it for non-air travel issues. Heck, I had to show my social security card and a passport or birth certificate to get the license. If Chertoff wants to address foreign terrorists, aside from being more effective at our borders (I can still walk into Canada at many places without any challenge), he should be addressing the issue of the weakness of passports. Not harrassing U.S. citizens wanting to go visit their grandparents at Christmas time. It is the Federal government’s primary responsibility to provide national security. So don’t try passing the responsibility and cost onto the states.
You’re expecting someone in the gov’t to stand up, be honest, take responsibility, and take action????? Wow. Do you want world peace and a pony for Xmas?? ;-)
I don’t care what the current cause ‘de jour’ is. I’m all for it. Cathing felons would be a bonus point for me.
And SC sounds tougher then Fla to get a drivers license. No photo id necessary down here. Birth cert and SS card, which are easy enough to get illegally.
Like I said, a national ID with fingerprints would not only catch any terrorists threats, it would catch felons, and it would put a serious dent in illegals.
IF it worked the way it’s supposed to. If it’s left up to individual states, it won’t.
Definitions: Papa= homeland security chief. Smurf=Blue man with ‘shirtoff’. Baker=#2 smurf.
Since I didn’t ask why the feds didn’t prevent the attacks on 9/11/01 I doubt I would ask after any future attacks. There is a tradeoff between liberty and security. I for one vote for greater liberty at the expense of greater security. I realize that makes it easier for others to harm me, but it also allows me to live my life with less interference.
Stop the fear-mongering and get on with life.
Gee, wasn’t Nazi Germany a terrible place? They had ID #’s for everyone, you had to show papers everywhere you traveled, if the gov’t didn’t like what you said they’d throw you in jail, take all your money or kill you, and the gov’t yelled in their faces non-stop that the highest duty was to the homeland (oops! I mean “fatherland”). Golly gee whiz, that would never happen here in the good ole USA!
As H.L. Mencken, a writer who is not known by the masses today because he writes too well and the masses can’t be torn away from their beer, football and Jessica Simpson to bother actually reading, said “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”
You’re comparing apples and oranges. The Nazi gov’t were the only ones in the country with guns and bombs. Different times.
Now every idiot with a computer can build a bomb, any Wendy’s in the country can have another idiot with a gun, getting on an airplane means taking your life in your hands, and the Gov’t taking everything you own is the least of your worries. Now it’s ‘can I get home from the mall alive and with my wallet’.
Back in Nazi Germany, they shot people without papers. Today we applaud their ability to reproduce on a yearly basis and pay them to sit back and reproduce some more.
Criminals were shot. Now we release them to carry on their lives in other states undetected.
Am I saying terrorism is the big reason for a National ID? Sure, if that gets it done. Keeping track of criminals, illegals, and possibly putting even a small dent in identity theft is a side effect I can live with.
One wonders what would have happened if the New ID Card, now demanded, had been available to J.Edgard Hoover? A wise man once said: “Those who sacrifice liberty for security will end up with neither one.”
I think the quote is:
Those who sacrifice liberty for security DESERVES neither one.
Don’t be fooled. Open your eyes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo
Just like Hitler putting numbers on the Jewish people before executing them…no thank you, I do not want to support the government in this matter.
“First they came…” is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892—1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.
This is exactly what we are now going through with the Department of Homeland Security. Our Government Bureaucrats are the reincarnation of the Nazi Brown shirts.
We will have neither Liberty nor security.
The immigration mess is a red herring promulgated by these Brown shirts and you are buying into it. How would you like to be of Spanish ancestry and try to prove you are an American citizen. Very much like the WW11 Japanese internments.
We need to grow up and take responsibility not ask the government to take care of us.
when “asked in 1971 about the correct version of the quote, Niemöller said he was not quite sure when he had said the famous words but, if people insist upon citing them, he preferred this version:
“In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.”
My God Jasper & LLH! Two people who can actually think for themselves! You’re not welcome in these parts. As someone in an earlier post quoted Mencken, allow me to include two of his quotes that apply to this situation (and virtually any other where “government” is involved):
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are.”
And one more:
“The fact is that the average man’s love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty — and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies.”
I don’t know where you live, but here in Fla, this ‘immigration mess’ is most definitely NOT a red herring. Our hospitals, welfare system, and criminal system are over run with illegals. Our roads are among the worst in the nation due to such a large population of no license or insurance among illegal immigrants. Our wages are dropping due to illegals accepting lower wages. Our schools are failing due to non-english speaking majority in a large percentage of them. The IRS is seizing money everyday from people like us because some illegal is using their SS# to work.
Before anyone gets up in arms about me being prejudice, I’m not. Let them come here, let them work. Let them PAY TAXES, HEALTH CARE, AND AUTO INSURANCE like the rest of us. The wages will take care of themselves if they can’t afford to work for less due to having to pay their own bills. And yes, if they choose to come here to live, I do expect them to at least learn passing English, as I would if I chose to live in their country.
But, in the meantime, the issue of illegal immigration is NOT a red herring. It is actually an issue that the gov’t has failed to even begin to address.
We have no idea who has come here- what they’re background is, if they are wanted in their ‘homeland’ for any violent crimes. I’m willing to ‘suffer’ through having a national ID if we can put some kind of handle on it.
You are correct “It is actually an issue that the gov’t has failed to even begin to address.”
Our government must be willing to allow more Legals to come here and work. The 10,000 quota will not suffice in this job market that is why we have the mounting illegal problem. If we would give them work visas then they would have papers and I would not have to show mine every time I want to go across state lines or board and airplane.
“We have no idea who has come here, what they’re background is, if they are wanted in their ‘homeland’ for any violent crimes.”
This is also true we need to address this with legal immigration make it less expensive for legals to cross the border and have background checks before they get here.
I’m not “willing to ‘suffer’ through having a national ID” and “we can put some kind of handle on it.” Working with other governments to allow legal immigration.
Most only want to be able to send money home but once here cannot migrate back and forth because it is too expensive if not almost impossible to go ‘Home’ after coming here to work.
Right there with you Lastbat
We (as in the Fed Gov’t) have been unwilling/unable to work with other nations to allow more legal immigration. Nations such as Cuba would NOT be willing to work with us, since many of the legal Cuban immigrants are here under political refugee status. These are people basically sneaking out of their own country, then sneaking into ours. And, since those countries are MORE then happy to ship their criminal element here I wouldn’t trust them, anyway. There are several such countries in that condition.
Personally, I also believe that if we ended the ‘free ride’ the number of people showing up with their hand out would go down. We need to be an “only those willing to work and pay their way can apply nation”. But, yes, I do believe, as you do, that those people should be given an easier, cheaper way to be legal. And those that can support their families here should be given a way to bring them.
But, until that is the case, it is our responsibility to govern who enters our home, why not our nation? We already hand over the information in question to numerous agencies on a daily basis. As I mentioned, the credit bureaus have more then the Federal Gov’t will ever have on us, even with a national ID. To get a driver’s license, insurance license, etc. So why not make it one national database? I’m just not seeing a huge difference between one database vs another in the realm of privacy.
It has definitely been an interesting conversation.
Have a good weekend.
The quote is:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
No offense, G, but quoting someone that died over 100 years ago with regard to privacy is a bit antiquated. These days we are a nation of “give up essential liberty to purchase a little” of anything cheap on the internet.
Our information is out there. Benjamin Franklin had no idea that within century of his statement all you had to do was turn on a computer to find just about anything on anyone. The moment we are born and assigned a SS# our lives become a forum for anyone with the right passwords. Or, unfortuantely, hacker skills. I’d rather use that fact to stop criminals then hide from it and pretend we can get away from it.
Have a good weeekend. It’s been interesting.
Those who fail to study history are destined to repeat it. Franklin is still relevant.
Dawn, did you actually write “We (as in the Fed Gov’t)?” You actually believe that the government is “us?” You’re serious? The “government” is nothing more than individual men and women who get their money by violence or the threat thereof. They have absolutely no duty or obligation to provide anything to you, me or anyone else; no law student can get through his first year without learning that. In fact , “learning that” is putting it mildly. The “government” has repeated that-that it has no duty or obligation to provide anything-hundreds of times over the past 200 years. In fact when someone is foolish enough to bring suit against the “government” for failing to “do their duty” the first thing the “government” does is bring that in as a “defense;” and, big surprise here, the “judge” always throws the case out.
If you actually believe that the “government” is “us” or “we” and that they have any “duty” towards us, I’ve got some wonderful land in Florida (or anywhere else your heart desires) that I’ll sell you-for a great price too!
Dawn we (I) did not give my privacy up willingly it was taken from me by Corporate America and our Government. Albeit little by little over the last 20-30- years. All the credit reporting and info gathering was done by lying to us about what and how they would use it. Now these companies want to tell me that they can protect what they’ve stolen.. I don’t think so!
The National ID card is the next to last straw in Orwell’s tale next comes the “Health Chip” implanted in you directly. Are you ready?
Yes it has been interesting and so far appears civil… Have a great weekend
You already gave up all of that perfect freedom you think you have when you got your birth certificate, drivers license, passport, voter registration card, social security number and all the other necessities of modern life. We give up a little (maybe a lot) of freedom to live in an organized and civilized world. I really fail to see how this one id is going to end freedom as we know it. Just my opinion.
Give it up Dawn. The true paranoia of some of the posters finally has hit the fan. The black helicopters will be overhead any minute. People like Jasper don’t learn from the past, they live in it.
I am sick to hell of these illegals. We should kick their sorry asses back to the **** hole they came from!