California (www.ca-icp.com) has 17 community colleges offering insurance courses (INS 21,22,23,Ethic and Intro).This goes with a Business AA or can just be a certificate. The BIG PROBLEM is insurance employers are doing very little to encourage these programs, offer internships or engage this giant new pool (over 900 students) of fresh talent…where are the jobs?
That’s right. There is no better field out there. I make over half a million dollars a year dealing with uneducated condo board members. It is a small sacrifice, but someone has to do it. I just wish I could throw some of these idiots off of the boards.
Many national brokers and insurance companies have recruited kids right out of college just for them to decide insurance is not for them. This industry is not for sissies. You must possess highly developed communication and negotiation skills, not to mention an in depth knowledge of what and how to insure a whole host of products for at least a dozen different industries. I’m speaking from the agents point of view, of course. I realize it is very different on the company side.
Interesting and fun and exciting? I don’t think I would EVER use these three words to describe this business.
My son is a freshman in a Co-op University program. Some of the town’s carriers support the program and they could easily be one of his potential employers, so they serve a purpose.
However, I don’t think I in my right (or left) mind could recommend this field to him. We’ve seen SO many changes in this field that career ladders resemble those horizontal ones in the kiddie park, where the youngsters have to swing from rung to rung as they move from one end to the other. Certainly the possibility of a ‘weak player’ can result in a similar fall while moving.
Perhaps my particular experience has jaded me, but as a 3rd genner in the biz, all I’ve seen is consolidation, RIF’s, Spitzers, insolvencies, market swings, acquisitions, butt-wiper principals, and the list could go on.
Maybe it is fun in the newest niche on the street, but for the mainstay account reps, this is NOT fun. Interpersonal relationships within the firm are more rewarding than the work itself. There is little creativity involved. Although it almost pays the bills, as long as one doesn’t live too large.
There isn’t a career out there where one is guaranteed a leg up the ladder. Sucess in this business does not come easily.
I agree with Not for sissies. It’s a very demanding, intense job but also very rewarding.
Young people need to be encouraged to look into an insurance career in high school. College is too late.
My daughter and daughter-in-law are both in college and undecided about their career paths. Call me crazy but I encourage them to look into the insurance field. My experience has been mostly on the company side and retail for about two years now. Probably the best decision I ever made. I started in the business at a young age and now find myself to be very marketable. In the right place, they can have successful careers at a young age also.
I started my agency 28 years ago. It’s all my two sons have known as they are 28 and 26. The oldest followed into the agency after college and is doing quite well. They both tried other things and decided that the insurance business (retail) offers a lot better opportunities that construction, or even some of the bio fields they studied. And, I constantly remind them that it beats digging ditches in the winter!
Give me a break. I have a dead insurance companies coffee mug collection that includes some of biggest and longest operating companies right up to their ultimate demise. (U.S.F. & G., Aetna, St. Paul (it was not a merger of equals), Continental, Kemper, Reliance come to mind.) You can have lots of employer choices if you’re willing to work in a place that’s a rat race (NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, L. A.) Outside those cities, you have about as much of a chance of long-term employment with the same firm as a textile worker has in North Carolina.
While I understand that many of the veterans of the industry will tell me I’m an idiot, as someone who graduated college one year and three days ago, I love this business. Right out of college I started training to be an E&S underwriter, and everyday something new comes up.
It certainly is not an industry for lazy people, or those that think they’ll make millions doing the bare minimum. But if you work hard, apply your skills every day and show intiative it seems you can live a pretty comfortable life.
My father has been an E&S broker for 30 years, my brother for six, and while everyone is stressed at times, it’s a lot better than digging ditches as someone else mentioned. It’s definitely an industry that will never go away; people will always need insurance.
Thanks Bob and best of luck to you. I’m going to share your comments with my daughter and my son’s wife who are both in college. Actually at the age of 14 my son started working at an insurance company where I was employed for about three years but later decided on a different career path. Put it like this, he likes getting his hands dirty. He is a certified auto mechanic but feels that his wife would do well, with my guidance; for he knows the passion I have for the business. I guess we will see.
I was in DC and I agree that we need to attract young talent! One thing the IBA West and its locals do is use the National InVest program to help introduce the insurance industry to young people.
I am the current president of the IBA San Fernando Valley and our chapter is now attending local community college job fairs and presenting internship opportunities and entry level training opportunities to the attendees. We currently have only a handful of agencies that are participating and a book full of resumes.
I am excited about where this could go and would love to see more associations pick up the idea and run with it!! I would also like to see more companies and agencies buy into the idea of training and growing their own professionals!
The influx could make all the difference in our industry’s future!!
As for “You can not be serious” and “Please pass me your crack pipe”, if you spent more time creating new ideas and additional opportunities as you do complaining and whining about the state of the industry, you would be leading your field and not spending valuable time providing energy draining responses.
Successful people create opportunities and wealth in any market. If you’ve been in this business as long as you say you have, then you should know this is only a business cycle that will turn. With the all the resources available, the flexible hours and amount of wealth you can create, the is a great business.
Regardless of any cycle, toughen up and get back to work. Otherwise, make a decision with what you want to do in life and spare others from your pessimism.
I think almost every comment posted here has made some degree of sense, but I think the primary point may have been missed. Recruiting top quality talent into the industry. I think what the article is suggesting is that top college minds, ie graduates of the Ivy’s and those who graduate with high honors, look toward the banks, investment firms, law firms, consulting, etc. They do not consider Insurance nearly as sexy or potentially lucrative. No one within the industry should doubt that insurance can be complex, interesting, and it certainly pays the bills. But, how does that message reach the highest achievers? And, like the article states, how does it become a goal instead of a default choice?
Could this lack of recruitment be a byproduct of the way the insurance industry is structured? It’s easier for law firms and investment banks to recruit top graduates because their names are known and everything is fairly well centralized. There’s so much diversity in insurance with so much decentralization, it appears, from the outside, difficult to have that much recruiting power. I may be wrong though.
I agree with you in a way. When you mention firms such as Goldman Sachs, J.P Morgan, Charles Schwab, KPMG, etc you immediately think of prestige, high salaries, interesting work, smart people. Most have certainly heard of Allstate, Travelers, Hartford, etc but the same connotations don’t apply.
Moreover, selling securities or being a “consultant” is somehow viewed as sexy while selling insurance is viewed as something boring, something easy, something people do when other things don’t work out. This is dead wrong as I know consultants bored to tears and insurance professionals challenged every day, but the PR for insurance is bad. Until the industry can change it’s image, top, young talent will continue to look elsewhere and the industry as a whole will suffer because of it.
There is no better field. I woke up today and made 5 grand off a condo board that renewed their 7 lines of business. I also have another condo coming up for renewal on the 17th, windstorm alone is 600k, flood another 60 k, property 70k, then put in the GL, Crime, D&O, Umbrella.
I would definately recommend this business to people. As long as you are reasonably intelligent and have communication skills you can be successful here.
I also am not independent or captive agent, I work for a major brokerage, so my deal bring in major premium
I don’t think it’s a bad thing that people end up in the business by default. I started by X-dating out of the phone book for an agent when I was in high school. I went to college, returned to the business, took some time to explore other options, and then I came back.
For people who believe they are providing an essential service, this is a great career. The young people are the best chance to sell the value of an agent to the internet generation. I think we do need to be in the high schools and colleges recruiting at an agency level…but again, this will put people into the business by default…and that’s not a bad thing.
What schools are you offering these programs in? Maybe we can work together using InVeast and CA ins careers to create that vehicle. We have started the ball rolling with Job Fairs and asked for internships. If we can nail this down a little more maybe we can really get it to take off!!
We have been working with InVest from the begining. However, their level of interest and direct participation has dropped over the past year. We would sure like to see that revitalized. The schools are listed on our web site (www.ca-icp.com). I would be happy to work with anyone to arrange internships or closer connections between InVest, Companies or Individuals in area around the colleges where we have programs. mike@ca-icp.com go ahead and send me a note.
Cal State Fullerton has a program that is dedicated to the insurance industry. Check out their web site: http://business.fullerton.edu/centers/cis/
They have over 1000 students involved in the program.
The goal of CIS is to attract and educate talented individuals who are committed to a professional career in insurance or financial services. These areas include property, life, benefits, risk management, and health care components. The emphasis will be on careers in actuarial analysis, claims, financial planning, marketing, risk management, portfolio management, sales, technology, and underwriting.
Lastbat, you make an interesting point about recruiting. I have found that most people I meet had a family member in the business before them. I am no exception to that and I know for certain that without that connection, that friendly push, I would not be where I am today. However, as you said, there are so many different niches you can focus on in this business. I have been fortunate enough to work with several insurance and reinsurance companies over the last 6 years. I was impressed to see these companies really stepping up their recruitment amongst local colleges in their areas. Not only are they looking for talent for their own companies, but they are partnering with their agents as well. One particular company I worked with hires college grads, puts them through a training program and then places them with local agencies upon completion. I hope programs like this will continue to pop up across the country and help this industry attract the young talent it needs.
I think our issue stems from the overall distaste of insurance by the public. If you are not connected to this industry, you think of writing a check to your insurance company like you think of paying taxes – a required evil. Untill the time of loss, you don’t even see it as necessary. When you think of an investment or banking firm, you think of wealth and making money for people.
If you ask me, insurance has been a really good career. I have worked on all sides and that has only made me more marketable.
It’s all in the image. We will never attract top talent until the time the image changes. I’m not sure how to do that.
California (www.ca-icp.com) has 17 community colleges offering insurance courses (INS 21,22,23,Ethic and Intro).This goes with a Business AA or can just be a certificate. The BIG PROBLEM is insurance employers are doing very little to encourage these programs, offer internships or engage this giant new pool (over 900 students) of fresh talent…where are the jobs?
I made 6 figures my first year in insurance with no family or leg up. If you have the right stuff, there is no better business out there.
Where else can you wake up 1/1 and have the comfort knowing that you have big money coming in just on renewing your existing relationships.
Maybe if you have a trust fund
That’s right. There is no better field out there. I make over half a million dollars a year dealing with uneducated condo board members. It is a small sacrifice, but someone has to do it. I just wish I could throw some of these idiots off of the boards.
Many national brokers and insurance companies have recruited kids right out of college just for them to decide insurance is not for them. This industry is not for sissies. You must possess highly developed communication and negotiation skills, not to mention an in depth knowledge of what and how to insure a whole host of products for at least a dozen different industries. I’m speaking from the agents point of view, of course. I realize it is very different on the company side.
Interesting and fun and exciting? I don’t think I would EVER use these three words to describe this business.
My son is a freshman in a Co-op University program. Some of the town’s carriers support the program and they could easily be one of his potential employers, so they serve a purpose.
However, I don’t think I in my right (or left) mind could recommend this field to him. We’ve seen SO many changes in this field that career ladders resemble those horizontal ones in the kiddie park, where the youngsters have to swing from rung to rung as they move from one end to the other. Certainly the possibility of a ‘weak player’ can result in a similar fall while moving.
Perhaps my particular experience has jaded me, but as a 3rd genner in the biz, all I’ve seen is consolidation, RIF’s, Spitzers, insolvencies, market swings, acquisitions, butt-wiper principals, and the list could go on.
Maybe it is fun in the newest niche on the street, but for the mainstay account reps, this is NOT fun. Interpersonal relationships within the firm are more rewarding than the work itself. There is little creativity involved. Although it almost pays the bills, as long as one doesn’t live too large.
Wow. Am I bitter, or is there some truth in this?
There isn’t a career out there where one is guaranteed a leg up the ladder. Sucess in this business does not come easily.
I agree with Not for sissies. It’s a very demanding, intense job but also very rewarding.
Young people need to be encouraged to look into an insurance career in high school. College is too late.
My daughter and daughter-in-law are both in college and undecided about their career paths. Call me crazy but I encourage them to look into the insurance field. My experience has been mostly on the company side and retail for about two years now. Probably the best decision I ever made. I started in the business at a young age and now find myself to be very marketable. In the right place, they can have successful careers at a young age also.
I started my agency 28 years ago. It’s all my two sons have known as they are 28 and 26. The oldest followed into the agency after college and is doing quite well. They both tried other things and decided that the insurance business (retail) offers a lot better opportunities that construction, or even some of the bio fields they studied. And, I constantly remind them that it beats digging ditches in the winter!
Swymmer
Give me a break. I have a dead insurance companies coffee mug collection that includes some of biggest and longest operating companies right up to their ultimate demise. (U.S.F. & G., Aetna, St. Paul (it was not a merger of equals), Continental, Kemper, Reliance come to mind.) You can have lots of employer choices if you’re willing to work in a place that’s a rat race (NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, L. A.) Outside those cities, you have about as much of a chance of long-term employment with the same firm as a textile worker has in North Carolina.
That was my point to begin with. Company no, retail yes. It depends which side of the fence you’re sitting on.
While I understand that many of the veterans of the industry will tell me I’m an idiot, as someone who graduated college one year and three days ago, I love this business. Right out of college I started training to be an E&S underwriter, and everyday something new comes up.
It certainly is not an industry for lazy people, or those that think they’ll make millions doing the bare minimum. But if you work hard, apply your skills every day and show intiative it seems you can live a pretty comfortable life.
My father has been an E&S broker for 30 years, my brother for six, and while everyone is stressed at times, it’s a lot better than digging ditches as someone else mentioned. It’s definitely an industry that will never go away; people will always need insurance.
Or maybe I’m just naiive…
Thanks Bob and best of luck to you. I’m going to share your comments with my daughter and my son’s wife who are both in college. Actually at the age of 14 my son started working at an insurance company where I was employed for about three years but later decided on a different career path. Put it like this, he likes getting his hands dirty. He is a certified auto mechanic but feels that his wife would do well, with my guidance; for he knows the passion I have for the business. I guess we will see.
I was in DC and I agree that we need to attract young talent! One thing the IBA West and its locals do is use the National InVest program to help introduce the insurance industry to young people.
I am the current president of the IBA San Fernando Valley and our chapter is now attending local community college job fairs and presenting internship opportunities and entry level training opportunities to the attendees. We currently have only a handful of agencies that are participating and a book full of resumes.
I am excited about where this could go and would love to see more associations pick up the idea and run with it!! I would also like to see more companies and agencies buy into the idea of training and growing their own professionals!
The influx could make all the difference in our industry’s future!!
Not naiive at all Bob, you should know that.
As for “You can not be serious” and “Please pass me your crack pipe”, if you spent more time creating new ideas and additional opportunities as you do complaining and whining about the state of the industry, you would be leading your field and not spending valuable time providing energy draining responses.
Successful people create opportunities and wealth in any market. If you’ve been in this business as long as you say you have, then you should know this is only a business cycle that will turn. With the all the resources available, the flexible hours and amount of wealth you can create, the is a great business.
Regardless of any cycle, toughen up and get back to work. Otherwise, make a decision with what you want to do in life and spare others from your pessimism.
I think almost every comment posted here has made some degree of sense, but I think the primary point may have been missed. Recruiting top quality talent into the industry. I think what the article is suggesting is that top college minds, ie graduates of the Ivy’s and those who graduate with high honors, look toward the banks, investment firms, law firms, consulting, etc. They do not consider Insurance nearly as sexy or potentially lucrative. No one within the industry should doubt that insurance can be complex, interesting, and it certainly pays the bills. But, how does that message reach the highest achievers? And, like the article states, how does it become a goal instead of a default choice?
Could this lack of recruitment be a byproduct of the way the insurance industry is structured? It’s easier for law firms and investment banks to recruit top graduates because their names are known and everything is fairly well centralized. There’s so much diversity in insurance with so much decentralization, it appears, from the outside, difficult to have that much recruiting power. I may be wrong though.
I agree with you in a way. When you mention firms such as Goldman Sachs, J.P Morgan, Charles Schwab, KPMG, etc you immediately think of prestige, high salaries, interesting work, smart people. Most have certainly heard of Allstate, Travelers, Hartford, etc but the same connotations don’t apply.
Moreover, selling securities or being a “consultant” is somehow viewed as sexy while selling insurance is viewed as something boring, something easy, something people do when other things don’t work out. This is dead wrong as I know consultants bored to tears and insurance professionals challenged every day, but the PR for insurance is bad. Until the industry can change it’s image, top, young talent will continue to look elsewhere and the industry as a whole will suffer because of it.
There is no better field. I woke up today and made 5 grand off a condo board that renewed their 7 lines of business. I also have another condo coming up for renewal on the 17th, windstorm alone is 600k, flood another 60 k, property 70k, then put in the GL, Crime, D&O, Umbrella.
I would definately recommend this business to people. As long as you are reasonably intelligent and have communication skills you can be successful here.
I also am not independent or captive agent, I work for a major brokerage, so my deal bring in major premium
I don’t think it’s a bad thing that people end up in the business by default. I started by X-dating out of the phone book for an agent when I was in high school. I went to college, returned to the business, took some time to explore other options, and then I came back.
For people who believe they are providing an essential service, this is a great career. The young people are the best chance to sell the value of an agent to the internet generation. I think we do need to be in the high schools and colleges recruiting at an agency level…but again, this will put people into the business by default…and that’s not a bad thing.
What schools are you offering these programs in? Maybe we can work together using InVeast and CA ins careers to create that vehicle. We have started the ball rolling with Job Fairs and asked for internships. If we can nail this down a little more maybe we can really get it to take off!!
We have been working with InVest from the begining. However, their level of interest and direct participation has dropped over the past year. We would sure like to see that revitalized. The schools are listed on our web site (www.ca-icp.com). I would be happy to work with anyone to arrange internships or closer connections between InVest, Companies or Individuals in area around the colleges where we have programs. mike@ca-icp.com go ahead and send me a note.
Cal State Fullerton has a program that is dedicated to the insurance industry. Check out their web site: http://business.fullerton.edu/centers/cis/
They have over 1000 students involved in the program.
The goal of CIS is to attract and educate talented individuals who are committed to a professional career in insurance or financial services. These areas include property, life, benefits, risk management, and health care components. The emphasis will be on careers in actuarial analysis, claims, financial planning, marketing, risk management, portfolio management, sales, technology, and underwriting.
Lastbat, you make an interesting point about recruiting. I have found that most people I meet had a family member in the business before them. I am no exception to that and I know for certain that without that connection, that friendly push, I would not be where I am today. However, as you said, there are so many different niches you can focus on in this business. I have been fortunate enough to work with several insurance and reinsurance companies over the last 6 years. I was impressed to see these companies really stepping up their recruitment amongst local colleges in their areas. Not only are they looking for talent for their own companies, but they are partnering with their agents as well. One particular company I worked with hires college grads, puts them through a training program and then places them with local agencies upon completion. I hope programs like this will continue to pop up across the country and help this industry attract the young talent it needs.
I think our issue stems from the overall distaste of insurance by the public. If you are not connected to this industry, you think of writing a check to your insurance company like you think of paying taxes – a required evil. Untill the time of loss, you don’t even see it as necessary. When you think of an investment or banking firm, you think of wealth and making money for people.
If you ask me, insurance has been a really good career. I have worked on all sides and that has only made me more marketable.
It’s all in the image. We will never attract top talent until the time the image changes. I’m not sure how to do that.