While I don’t agree with the repeated salvation of this company the handouts will continue. Those with power both in business and government have to much invested in personal wealth (AIG shares) to let this go. AIG covers risks for the wealthy that a responsible carrier will not insure..it will not be allowed to go under. Sad day for the middle class tax payer.
Rating: A (Excellent)
Financial Size Category: XV ($2 Billion or greater)
Hey, If AM Best said it, you can take it to the bank. Wait??
Which bank? Oh yeah, Wachovia.
I think..
or was it Washington Mutual??
Sit back and watch it fall,
plant a garden near the wall:
beans will sprout,
and you can eat:
“market average” you will beat
and then will wonder ’bout
the dream
of riches.
This is awful…”we just lost another 60 billion. Can we have a little bit more???” Go bankrupt. And do it quick. Maybe we’ll have some stabilization of one industry in the US.
Enough already. This is the third strike! These guys have a proven track record of lying to just about everyone this side of the moon. It’s time for everyone to just let them go. If taxpayers “save” them this time, you know we will see them again this year “asking” for another “bailout”.
My father taught me many things over the years, probably the most impotant two were: 1. when the boat is sinking do not try to save the anchor! 2. Never by a wallet on credit. I suppose AIG thinks “as long as we get free money everytime we ask,,, why change our mode of operation?”. Businesses are like people, regardless of opportunity some will fail, it is called survival of the fittest. Without the ability to fail there is no need to excel.
Hello taxpayers…its me…Mr. Liddy again. We’re gonna need you to go ahead and loan us another $40b or so. I know we messed up and lied but don’t hold it against us. Just give us another $40b and we swear we’ll spend it wisely this time….maybe even tell you what we’re using it for. Ok maybe we won’t use it wisely and we’ll likely be back for more. Can you blame us though? Its like taking candy from a baby.
Who you kidding, David? According to AIG’s 3Q financial supplement, 80% of their real estate assets sit on the books of the insurance operations. There’s no way the $60 billion doesn’t go to the invested assets of the insurance companies. Time to call it quits.
Everyone with an ounce of sense has had ample time to shift insurance and assets out of AIG by now. Propping AIG up once again will only prolong the agony. Cut the cord!
Force them into runoff(no new policies written and require their current policies to be shopped at renewal). AIG must keep their price where it is and if there is another viable carrier option that thinks the price is appropriate, take the business. If not, keep it with them. They’ll go away-no more bailouts or irrational pricing.
Warren Buffett can always be left out of the AIG discussion. Ain’t AIG his baby. Ain’t it where his don’t care about underwriting, just give me the interest on investments philosophy was created?
Time to sell the pieces. I think the concern a few months ago was to not run a fire sale and be able to pay down the loans. Well thats not working and their hands are back out. The US Govt owns 80% of them, time to put the old china on the front lawn and sell. Get what you can and stop putting the US citizens hard earned money to waste.
Let’s combine AIG, with GM, Chrysler and the Banking Industry. The all knowing government can form a new entity with all the benefits of selling the American tax payer a new car with financing and insurance.
And it shall be called AMERICAN MOTORS…wait, that didn’t work either!
Time for AIG to fold up it’s tent and GO AWAY! All the “experts” they put in to turn it around are obviously completely inept at running anything. It’s time to cut our losses. LET IT DIE and MOVE ON!
…for AIG to use tarp funds to undercut their already shady pricing.
It happened the last time they were bailed out and it will happen again. I’m personally seeing pricing out of lexington that would make any actuary vomit.
Give them more bailout money and we’ll never see another hard market.
A rating from Best?????????
can A M Best state that a AIG Ins company will pay all claims in Future including WCA and Products?
What about Ins Co Assets like Buildings etc what does to the ins company balance sheet look like?
Can they continue to write same premium volumne with less policy holders surplur?
Warren does not own AIG, he owns GEICO! that company has made a profit. AIG has lost another $60 BILLION!!! what in the world is going on? part of that money is probably the executives trip.
they should just be derezzed (using a term fm disney’s TRON movie). Scatter that business where folks can truly behave and don’t lie.
At least AIG could have the common courtesy to give us a reach around while they screw us out of our money.
This disgusts me. how can our government do this? If they give them the extra money they are looking for they are just putting a band aid on a broken arm.
if this passes and AIG gets this money, who’s with me for getting a bunch of torches, pitchforks, some hot tar, feathers, and going to all of AIG’s Executives homes and just standing there with a huge mob outside their home, just to ask them, how much to they REALLY need that extra $60B?
I am also confused as to why AM Best holds this carrier in high regards… Its difficult to advice customers when AM Best still gives them a high grade… sure the outlook is negative, but I wish AM Best would adopt a proceedure that was more clear and current.
Enough is enough. AIG shold liquidate all reamaining holdings at whatever price they can get. The government should not give AIG any more money. This means higher taxes for all in the future.
Suspend AIG from writing any new policies, and then liquidate them ASAP.
Don’t you mean you want a system that tells you when to stop placing business with a carrier and be absolved of any responsibility?
When the Mission Insurance Company went BK, I worked for an agency who did a mass mailing to all of their Mission insureds telling them that they could replace their coverage for approximately 25% more than they were currently paying. It referenced all the bad press that Mission had been getting and expressed that we were happy to meet with them to discuss the issues.
Out of the well over 100 insureds who received this mailing, you could count on the fingers of your hand with the thumb missing the number who responded and wanted to make the change.
Sometimes who just can’t overcome the stupidity and irresponsibility of clients. And AIG knows that cheap pricing generally prevails.
I think the biggest issues are 2 fold here. The govt has already injected $150b into AIG. If they don’t pony up again, they look bad for having already bailed them out several times and failing at it. If they do bail them out, they look bad for throwing more good money after bad.
Same holds true for best ratings. If they suddenly downgrade AIG and change the way they assign ratings, then everyone will complain that they haven’t been doing it all the long. Don’t get me wrong, I fully believe AIG needs several, not just 1 downgrade. I hope it comes and forces them to post more collateral that they don’t have.
This is a no win situation for everyone EXCEPT AIG. We can get as pissed as we want as taxpayers/majority shareholders but it’s not going to do a bit of good.
The fact is nothing has changed w/ the new administration. Anyone who actually believes this “change” crap should seek therapy….or maybe a job at AIG.
There’s a reason AIG stock is trading over 99% lower than 1 yr ago. Its worthless…just like the idiots who ran that company into the ground.
I have to agree with that one guy who posted….the least they could’ve done is given us a reach around or at least talked dirty before they had their way with us(taxpayers)
AIG makes me sick. Nothing will improve until they fail. PERIOD! Until that happens, both AIG and the govt will continue to find BS ways to keep this zombie company propped up for a little bit longer. Why delay the inevitable. I say it’s time to face the music. Too bad that wont’ happen.
Now would be the time to man up and admit that we all would have been better off letting the holding company go into bankruptcy during that lost weekend last September.
Someone needs to tell the Treasury that there is an alternative market for every policy that AIG writes. The 60 Billion would more than make up the difference in AIG’s underpriced book;Pay the difference to the new carrier and the problem goes away.
Last time I checked, AIG no longer had a direct arm.
Take a stand for yourselves. Just quit placing business with AIG. Lose your cheap, short-sighted customers. You will be better off in the long run when you decide to deal with customers who show intelligence and integrity, and when you right-size your agency based on who is left. If you don’t have any customers left, you are probably in the wrong business anyway.
Hey! I know! By golly, I’m going to write to my congressman. I know that they are truly public servants and have the best interests of the public at heart! All those cynical stories about government being bought & paid for by the special interests can’t be true! We all know that Congress scrupulously follows the same laws that they make everyone else follow. Why they’d never use their positions to take political advantage of anyone or anything or to line their own pockets.
Finally someone gets it. Kudos to you Jeff for pointing out what everyone has failed to see. If you hate AIG so much, stop placing business with them. PERIOD. If your clients aren’t bright enough to see through all the lies and cheap premiums, then let them go. You’ll be better off in the long term anyway. I wish more producers acted on this idea.
Finally someone gets it. Kudos to you Jeff for pointing out what everyone has failed to see. If you hate AIG so much, stop placing business with them. PERIOD. If your clients aren’t bright enough to see through all the lies and cheap premiums, then let them go. You’ll be better off in the long term anyway. I wish more producers acted on this idea.
There are statutory reserves and guarantee funds in place to make sure all the policy holders get paid. The policyholders are protected.
They are doing their best to take the rest of the industry down with them. We see them consistently undercutting pricing to attract or retain business. This at a time when the market should be firming up due to the lack of investment income.
As others have pointed out…part of the problem is policyholders who care about price first….until they have a claim. In long-tail coverage such as workers’ compensation, insureds are foolish for placing business with AIG. They will not be around to service your claims for the next 10+ years. You will get what you pay for.
Finally, someone please explain to me how they can still have an AM Best rating of A when the only reason they are alive is a steady stream of government money. The rating agencies are absurd in how slow they respond to reality.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that most, if not all, businessowners/insureds believe that someone somewhere in the government is going to protect them against their bad judgement. I’ve seen it time and again throughout my 32 years in the business. Good luck trying to convince a client to buy the higher-priced product. And when the cheap carrier goes down, the insured will point the finger at us.
We can’t assess the financial stability of an insurance organization until all tax payer money has dried up. Should be another week or so. Thank you for your patience.
I agree that there has to be a cut off point in where help is given – and can see why some people say the help should never have been given in the 1st place.
AIG heavily invest in US industries worldwide – providing finance to American companies. If AIG go, then there will be a huge collapse of US industry. As far as I see it – this is the reason that the administration is providing a bailout – there would be more than 109,000 AIG employees seeking employment.
The Insurance arm of AIG is protected by regulators – i.e. they have money to pay claims. Would not be able to trade without this.
The problems are on the finance side – which we already know about.
it does not matter how many folks will be out of a job. if a company did not do it’s job correctly it should fail. we allow smaller companies to fail, why should this be any different for a big company. this will all change as we get things corrected. we just need to let things ride out the storm and then it will get better.
I agree with the sentiment on letting them fail. I don’t agree with the number of so-called professionals on this site dancing on the grave of a competitor. Just remember, most of what was done here has probably been twisted from actual reality. Your company might the the next one to achieve this level of attention. No sympathy for them, just no joy in seeing all the people at AIG lose their jobs.
Yes, the decision to prop up AIG or not is an “easy” one. Would you rather cut off your left hand or shoot yourself in the temple? In one case you may bleed to death, but the other’s outcome is certain.
Let’s hope the music that is being danced to is not a funeral dirge, being played on a wind-up phonograph from olden days,
with the spring having come t o t h e e n d.
While I don’t agree with the repeated salvation of this company the handouts will continue. Those with power both in business and government have to much invested in personal wealth (AIG shares) to let this go. AIG covers risks for the wealthy that a responsible carrier will not insure..it will not be allowed to go under. Sad day for the middle class tax payer.
What? Oh ye of little faith..
Rating: A (Excellent)
Financial Size Category: XV ($2 Billion or greater)
Hey, If AM Best said it, you can take it to the bank. Wait??
Which bank? Oh yeah, Wachovia.
I think..
or was it Washington Mutual??
Sit back and watch it fall,
plant a garden near the wall:
beans will sprout,
and you can eat:
“market average” you will beat
and then will wonder ’bout
the dream
of riches.
This is awful…”we just lost another 60 billion. Can we have a little bit more???” Go bankrupt. And do it quick. Maybe we’ll have some stabilization of one industry in the US.
Enough already. This is the third strike! These guys have a proven track record of lying to just about everyone this side of the moon. It’s time for everyone to just let them go. If taxpayers “save” them this time, you know we will see them again this year “asking” for another “bailout”.
AIG, just go away!
My father taught me many things over the years, probably the most impotant two were: 1. when the boat is sinking do not try to save the anchor! 2. Never by a wallet on credit. I suppose AIG thinks “as long as we get free money everytime we ask,,, why change our mode of operation?”. Businesses are like people, regardless of opportunity some will fail, it is called survival of the fittest. Without the ability to fail there is no need to excel.
I never said he taught me how to spell or type.
Can anyone say AOG – American Obama Group.
First insurance company to be nationalized.
Hello taxpayers…its me…Mr. Liddy again. We’re gonna need you to go ahead and loan us another $40b or so. I know we messed up and lied but don’t hold it against us. Just give us another $40b and we swear we’ll spend it wisely this time….maybe even tell you what we’re using it for. Ok maybe we won’t use it wisely and we’ll likely be back for more. Can you blame us though? Its like taking candy from a baby.
Who you kidding, David? According to AIG’s 3Q financial supplement, 80% of their real estate assets sit on the books of the insurance operations. There’s no way the $60 billion doesn’t go to the invested assets of the insurance companies. Time to call it quits.
Can anyone confirm that Government Pensions are somehow connected to AIG financial?
If so, it is as simple as that…no need to dig any further…
Everyone with an ounce of sense has had ample time to shift insurance and assets out of AIG by now. Propping AIG up once again will only prolong the agony. Cut the cord!
Force them into runoff(no new policies written and require their current policies to be shopped at renewal). AIG must keep their price where it is and if there is another viable carrier option that thinks the price is appropriate, take the business. If not, keep it with them. They’ll go away-no more bailouts or irrational pricing.
Warren Buffett can always be left out of the AIG discussion. Ain’t AIG his baby. Ain’t it where his don’t care about underwriting, just give me the interest on investments philosophy was created?
Time to sell the pieces. I think the concern a few months ago was to not run a fire sale and be able to pay down the loans. Well thats not working and their hands are back out. The US Govt owns 80% of them, time to put the old china on the front lawn and sell. Get what you can and stop putting the US citizens hard earned money to waste.
Let’s combine AIG, with GM, Chrysler and the Banking Industry. The all knowing government can form a new entity with all the benefits of selling the American tax payer a new car with financing and insurance.
And it shall be called AMERICAN MOTORS…wait, that didn’t work either!
Time for AIG to fold up it’s tent and GO AWAY! All the “experts” they put in to turn it around are obviously completely inept at running anything. It’s time to cut our losses. LET IT DIE and MOVE ON!
…for AIG to use tarp funds to undercut their already shady pricing.
It happened the last time they were bailed out and it will happen again. I’m personally seeing pricing out of lexington that would make any actuary vomit.
Give them more bailout money and we’ll never see another hard market.
AIG, THANK YOU for laying me off 3 years ago!!
Fire Sale needed ~now!!! Hasta la vista, AIG!
A rating from Best?????????
can A M Best state that a AIG Ins company will pay all claims in Future including WCA and Products?
What about Ins Co Assets like Buildings etc what does to the ins company balance sheet look like?
Can they continue to write same premium volumne with less policy holders surplur?
A M Best what is the answer?
Warren does not own AIG, he owns GEICO! that company has made a profit. AIG has lost another $60 BILLION!!! what in the world is going on? part of that money is probably the executives trip.
they should just be derezzed (using a term fm disney’s TRON movie). Scatter that business where folks can truly behave and don’t lie.
At least AIG could have the common courtesy to give us a reach around while they screw us out of our money.
This disgusts me. how can our government do this? If they give them the extra money they are looking for they are just putting a band aid on a broken arm.
This is a complete SCREW JOB!! Period. Why don’t we just ask Osama if he wants some money as well…with some Vaseline?
if this passes and AIG gets this money, who’s with me for getting a bunch of torches, pitchforks, some hot tar, feathers, and going to all of AIG’s Executives homes and just standing there with a huge mob outside their home, just to ask them, how much to they REALLY need that extra $60B?
I am also confused as to why AM Best holds this carrier in high regards… Its difficult to advice customers when AM Best still gives them a high grade… sure the outlook is negative, but I wish AM Best would adopt a proceedure that was more clear and current.
The company formerly only hated by insiders is now despised by all of America. Where’s Jack Kervorkian when we need him?
Enough is enough. AIG shold liquidate all reamaining holdings at whatever price they can get. The government should not give AIG any more money. This means higher taxes for all in the future.
Suspend AIG from writing any new policies, and then liquidate them ASAP.
Take Care
i just want to know. is this all just left overs from the mess Bush left for Obama or is Obama’s current administration really OK with this?
Don’t you mean you want a system that tells you when to stop placing business with a carrier and be absolved of any responsibility?
When the Mission Insurance Company went BK, I worked for an agency who did a mass mailing to all of their Mission insureds telling them that they could replace their coverage for approximately 25% more than they were currently paying. It referenced all the bad press that Mission had been getting and expressed that we were happy to meet with them to discuss the issues.
Out of the well over 100 insureds who received this mailing, you could count on the fingers of your hand with the thumb missing the number who responded and wanted to make the change.
Sometimes who just can’t overcome the stupidity and irresponsibility of clients. And AIG knows that cheap pricing generally prevails.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Thats a loud scream by the way.
I think the biggest issues are 2 fold here. The govt has already injected $150b into AIG. If they don’t pony up again, they look bad for having already bailed them out several times and failing at it. If they do bail them out, they look bad for throwing more good money after bad.
Same holds true for best ratings. If they suddenly downgrade AIG and change the way they assign ratings, then everyone will complain that they haven’t been doing it all the long. Don’t get me wrong, I fully believe AIG needs several, not just 1 downgrade. I hope it comes and forces them to post more collateral that they don’t have.
This is a no win situation for everyone EXCEPT AIG. We can get as pissed as we want as taxpayers/majority shareholders but it’s not going to do a bit of good.
The fact is nothing has changed w/ the new administration. Anyone who actually believes this “change” crap should seek therapy….or maybe a job at AIG.
There’s a reason AIG stock is trading over 99% lower than 1 yr ago. Its worthless…just like the idiots who ran that company into the ground.
I have to agree with that one guy who posted….the least they could’ve done is given us a reach around or at least talked dirty before they had their way with us(taxpayers)
AIG makes me sick. Nothing will improve until they fail. PERIOD! Until that happens, both AIG and the govt will continue to find BS ways to keep this zombie company propped up for a little bit longer. Why delay the inevitable. I say it’s time to face the music. Too bad that wont’ happen.
Now would be the time to man up and admit that we all would have been better off letting the holding company go into bankruptcy during that lost weekend last September.
Nuff Said
Time to let these guys die. they cheated and screwed up ther business with shaky deals. No more bailout.
Someone needs to tell the Treasury that there is an alternative market for every policy that AIG writes. The 60 Billion would more than make up the difference in AIG’s underpriced book;Pay the difference to the new carrier and the problem goes away.
Last time I checked, AIG no longer had a direct arm.
Take a stand for yourselves. Just quit placing business with AIG. Lose your cheap, short-sighted customers. You will be better off in the long run when you decide to deal with customers who show intelligence and integrity, and when you right-size your agency based on who is left. If you don’t have any customers left, you are probably in the wrong business anyway.
Hey! I know! By golly, I’m going to write to my congressman. I know that they are truly public servants and have the best interests of the public at heart! All those cynical stories about government being bought & paid for by the special interests can’t be true! We all know that Congress scrupulously follows the same laws that they make everyone else follow. Why they’d never use their positions to take political advantage of anyone or anything or to line their own pockets.
Finally someone gets it. Kudos to you Jeff for pointing out what everyone has failed to see. If you hate AIG so much, stop placing business with them. PERIOD. If your clients aren’t bright enough to see through all the lies and cheap premiums, then let them go. You’ll be better off in the long term anyway. I wish more producers acted on this idea.
Finally someone gets it. Kudos to you Jeff for pointing out what everyone has failed to see. If you hate AIG so much, stop placing business with them. PERIOD. If your clients aren’t bright enough to see through all the lies and cheap premiums, then let them go. You’ll be better off in the long term anyway. I wish more producers acted on this idea.
There are statutory reserves and guarantee funds in place to make sure all the policy holders get paid. The policyholders are protected.
They are doing their best to take the rest of the industry down with them. We see them consistently undercutting pricing to attract or retain business. This at a time when the market should be firming up due to the lack of investment income.
As others have pointed out…part of the problem is policyholders who care about price first….until they have a claim. In long-tail coverage such as workers’ compensation, insureds are foolish for placing business with AIG. They will not be around to service your claims for the next 10+ years. You will get what you pay for.
Finally, someone please explain to me how they can still have an AM Best rating of A when the only reason they are alive is a steady stream of government money. The rating agencies are absurd in how slow they respond to reality.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that most, if not all, businessowners/insureds believe that someone somewhere in the government is going to protect them against their bad judgement. I’ve seen it time and again throughout my 32 years in the business. Good luck trying to convince a client to buy the higher-priced product. And when the cheap carrier goes down, the insured will point the finger at us.
We can’t assess the financial stability of an insurance organization until all tax payer money has dried up. Should be another week or so. Thank you for your patience.
AIG bailout funds rec’d to date: $150b
AIG revenues: $126.3b
Anyone else notice something funky about this.
Its funny to think they had a market cap of $1T just 6 months ago. Now it’s a measely $1.1b
I agree that there has to be a cut off point in where help is given – and can see why some people say the help should never have been given in the 1st place.
AIG heavily invest in US industries worldwide – providing finance to American companies. If AIG go, then there will be a huge collapse of US industry. As far as I see it – this is the reason that the administration is providing a bailout – there would be more than 109,000 AIG employees seeking employment.
The Insurance arm of AIG is protected by regulators – i.e. they have money to pay claims. Would not be able to trade without this.
The problems are on the finance side – which we already know about.
Is the surplus of the commercial lines division of AIG intact? Yes.
Does the additional funding need arise from “insurance” operations. No.
There is a strong likelyhood, IMHO, that the fiscal stimulus won’t work and that a depression is in the offing.
Meanwhile, the “credit default swaps” that AIG guaranteed are eating the company alive:
except for the policyholder surplus, that is protected from the effects of the real estate related mismanagement issues.
Save your outrage, is my advice. You may need it some day.
it does not matter how many folks will be out of a job. if a company did not do it’s job correctly it should fail. we allow smaller companies to fail, why should this be any different for a big company. this will all change as we get things corrected. we just need to let things ride out the storm and then it will get better.
I agree with the sentiment on letting them fail. I don’t agree with the number of so-called professionals on this site dancing on the grave of a competitor. Just remember, most of what was done here has probably been twisted from actual reality. Your company might the the next one to achieve this level of attention. No sympathy for them, just no joy in seeing all the people at AIG lose their jobs.
“Who you kidding, David? According to AIG’s 3Q financial supplement, 80% of their real estate assets sit on the books of the insurance operations.”
Well, we’ll see. My point referred to their policyholder surplus’ protected status. We’ve no argument over the overall “corporate governance”.
Yes, the decision to prop up AIG or not is an “easy” one. Would you rather cut off your left hand or shoot yourself in the temple? In one case you may bleed to death, but the other’s outcome is certain.
Let’s hope the music that is being danced to is not a funeral dirge, being played on a wind-up phonograph from olden days,
with the spring having come t o t h e e n d.
Ashes, ashes, all fall down……..