You should be embarrassed if you work for Hartford. TARP was meant for banks so Hartford buys this little S&L in FL so they can freeload on america to the tune of 3.4 billion. Embarrassing Mr Ayer…Hartford should just fold up and let other carriers that are better positioned and support independent agents take over their book.
well, i agree, but it looks like the financial side is getting hit. question: how did they lose the money? toxic bets? how is the insurance side affected?
here’s the ultimate question:
these bailouts given, all this money was not planned or budgeted for the fiscal year by the previous administration. so where is actually all this money coming from? are we as a country going to go bankrupt? how long will our kids and grandkids and even great grandkids going to keep paying for this? our national debt keeps going up and up and up. we can’t just keep printing money to just give it away. if we had just let these companies fail, it would not have devalued our $$ as much. it’s a shame that during our lifetime, i am not looking forward to retirement and getting my fairshare of social security. probably won’t be anything left.
Let’s call this what it is: FAILURE by management. Sure, Ram Ayer takes the bullet, probably with a fatty severance, which will be modest in comparison to what has become the norm for failed leaders, but fat for a failure.
Ram tried to keep up with AIG and Travelers and got caught standing when the music stopped.
The good news for all of the true capitalists out there is that Hartford will now have to perform with the US Government as their partner.
These are probably the same carriers that have underpriced their products while using the profits from the toxic assets to subsidize them. Everyone who was at a competitive disadvantage and lost income to them is now propping them up – not quite a fair resolution.
1. It’s a loan, not a gift, so must be paid back with interest. Just like with AIG, with the banks, with Chrysler and GM. Doesn’t any ever read anything any more?
2. Social Security was never intended to be anything but a supplement to retirement funds. It was never intended to be the sole source of retirement funds. If you’re looking at it as sole source, you have made a very bad mistake (but, you’re in a big boat of others);
3. They lost most of their money selling insurance – guaranteeing variable annuities. A financial insurance product they most likely should not have been involved in, just like AIG. It wasn’t their P & C business which is the business they should have stuck to;
Hartford is traveling down a slippery slope with a mud puddle at the bottom of the hill. With markets contracting and the soft pricing, not sure $3.4 is enough. Can we give them a little more money please?
Those are good points Temblor. I’m not sure why the previous poster would connect Social Security to TARP, since that became an issue long before this mess. But Hartford actually lost most of the money due to structured securities, which were ultimately responsible for the credit bubble and the market crash. For those not up to date on how insurance companies work, it’s ALL ABOUT investments. Every insurance company is heavily invested in the market, real estate, mortgages, etc. That’s how profit is made – so it’s rediculous to say that a company should or shouldn’t have been involved in a certain area. Insurance companies, especially the large ones like Hartford, help to keep our economy going (not inclusive of market crashes).
…”temblor” is correct. The Hartford lost their money selling variable annuities. However, it was the managed funds that these annuities were invested in that brought HIG down…i.e. AAA rated hedge funds. These were the credit derivatives that everyone now knows about. In addition, HIG had much of their investment income in these funds. The P&C company has been and still is profitable. At the beginning of 2009, the P&C company “uploaded” (mgmt. terms from an employee town hall meeting…same as gave away!) $1 BILLION to the life side of the company. This was even after the infusion of the Alliance investment, which can be converted by Alliance from preferred stock to common stock within 10 years of the infusion (with shareholder approval, of course). What does this tell you? 1). HIG may likely not stand on its own in the near future. 2). The fact that HIG STILL had to get TARP money means that the company was and is bleeding more than mgmt. cares to admit. At least AIG is selling off assets to pay its loan back to the taxpayers. We will see what The Hartford does. Signed, previous HIG employee
tremblor-call it a loan if you like and technically it is…but can you say with absolute certainty that IT WILL be paid back with interest? I say no. The gov’t has forgiven many debts and if Hartford sells or goes bankrupt…who knows?? We’re talking about a co that actually went out and bought a small S&L so they could receive billions of funds, don’t you think they are considering options to get out of this as well???
BEST IDEA I HAVE HEARD IN
A LONG TIME!!!
Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers
so we could identify their corporate sponsors.
You should be embarrassed if you work for Hartford. TARP was meant for banks so Hartford buys this little S&L in FL so they can freeload on america to the tune of 3.4 billion. Embarrassing Mr Ayer…Hartford should just fold up and let other carriers that are better positioned and support independent agents take over their book.
well, i agree, but it looks like the financial side is getting hit. question: how did they lose the money? toxic bets? how is the insurance side affected?
here’s the ultimate question:
these bailouts given, all this money was not planned or budgeted for the fiscal year by the previous administration. so where is actually all this money coming from? are we as a country going to go bankrupt? how long will our kids and grandkids and even great grandkids going to keep paying for this? our national debt keeps going up and up and up. we can’t just keep printing money to just give it away. if we had just let these companies fail, it would not have devalued our $$ as much. it’s a shame that during our lifetime, i am not looking forward to retirement and getting my fairshare of social security. probably won’t be anything left.
Let’s call this what it is: FAILURE by management. Sure, Ram Ayer takes the bullet, probably with a fatty severance, which will be modest in comparison to what has become the norm for failed leaders, but fat for a failure.
Ram tried to keep up with AIG and Travelers and got caught standing when the music stopped.
The good news for all of the true capitalists out there is that Hartford will now have to perform with the US Government as their partner.
Call that judgement Death By a 1,000 Idiots.
These are probably the same carriers that have underpriced their products while using the profits from the toxic assets to subsidize them. Everyone who was at a competitive disadvantage and lost income to them is now propping them up – not quite a fair resolution.
1. It’s a loan, not a gift, so must be paid back with interest. Just like with AIG, with the banks, with Chrysler and GM. Doesn’t any ever read anything any more?
2. Social Security was never intended to be anything but a supplement to retirement funds. It was never intended to be the sole source of retirement funds. If you’re looking at it as sole source, you have made a very bad mistake (but, you’re in a big boat of others);
3. They lost most of their money selling insurance – guaranteeing variable annuities. A financial insurance product they most likely should not have been involved in, just like AIG. It wasn’t their P & C business which is the business they should have stuck to;
Hartford is traveling down a slippery slope with a mud puddle at the bottom of the hill. With markets contracting and the soft pricing, not sure $3.4 is enough. Can we give them a little more money please?
Those are good points Temblor. I’m not sure why the previous poster would connect Social Security to TARP, since that became an issue long before this mess. But Hartford actually lost most of the money due to structured securities, which were ultimately responsible for the credit bubble and the market crash. For those not up to date on how insurance companies work, it’s ALL ABOUT investments. Every insurance company is heavily invested in the market, real estate, mortgages, etc. That’s how profit is made – so it’s rediculous to say that a company should or shouldn’t have been involved in a certain area. Insurance companies, especially the large ones like Hartford, help to keep our economy going (not inclusive of market crashes).
…”temblor” is correct. The Hartford lost their money selling variable annuities. However, it was the managed funds that these annuities were invested in that brought HIG down…i.e. AAA rated hedge funds. These were the credit derivatives that everyone now knows about. In addition, HIG had much of their investment income in these funds. The P&C company has been and still is profitable. At the beginning of 2009, the P&C company “uploaded” (mgmt. terms from an employee town hall meeting…same as gave away!) $1 BILLION to the life side of the company. This was even after the infusion of the Alliance investment, which can be converted by Alliance from preferred stock to common stock within 10 years of the infusion (with shareholder approval, of course). What does this tell you? 1). HIG may likely not stand on its own in the near future. 2). The fact that HIG STILL had to get TARP money means that the company was and is bleeding more than mgmt. cares to admit. At least AIG is selling off assets to pay its loan back to the taxpayers. We will see what The Hartford does. Signed, previous HIG employee
tremblor-call it a loan if you like and technically it is…but can you say with absolute certainty that IT WILL be paid back with interest? I say no. The gov’t has forgiven many debts and if Hartford sells or goes bankrupt…who knows?? We’re talking about a co that actually went out and bought a small S&L so they could receive billions of funds, don’t you think they are considering options to get out of this as well???
BEST IDEA I HAVE HEARD IN
A LONG TIME!!!
Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers
so we could identify their corporate sponsors.
now that is funny!
speaking of hartford, many in congress probably are eligible for their insurance… how many have it?
Not sure your facts are all accurate Nancy