Thom: Sounds to me as if there is a half life to this stuff. I might have a tendency to agree with some of your observations with the exception that the sheets are run through heated dryers and in one of your statements abuot putting the pitcher of sulphur water in the fridge to air out what would be holding any sulphur in the product? It also sounds as if heat and humidity are playing a major part of the problem. Has anybody tested the sulpher content of the drywall? How does the hydrpgen sulphur and other possible gassing off of formaldahyde contribute to corrosion issues? I also agree with your observation on copper wiring and the corrosion rates associated. My concern would be for very sensitive electronics in the home.
In an attempt to save money (greed) companies are using cheap labor without safety and building requirements. This is not the first product we are seeing from China that have devastating effects on the United States. Thre is a pattern. The tie between insurance and politics is our government is allowing quality of products from China to be sacrificed for our safety. Why? There are several insurance products that have a direct correlation with allowing these products in our country without the proper regulations. These products include (but are not limited to) property insurance (commercial and personal)perhaps health insurance and we hope not life insurance. As a country hopefully we will stop allowing inferior products from China into our country, because of low wages, and human rights issues (labor laws). I know in the short term when we purchase an item we save money. The question is do we really gain (save) when we consider the costs of lawsuits, higher insurance premiums (as a result of claims) , and most importantly the health of individuals who are negatively impacted by inferior products such as we are seeing from China.
This seems a little out of control and let me share with you why. I grew up on a family farm that had been occupied by mine and past generations for nearly 150 years. This part of Missouri is plagued with sulfur water that emits hydrogen sulfide gas, the exact same stuff as in the drywall. The downside is your precious metals will tarnish, you smell rotten eggs when you bath and your city friends gag when they are exposed to the fumes. Otherwise, it is an inconvenience till your drinking water airs out in a pitcher in the fridge.
People flocked to our area from all over the world in the late 1800s to expose themselves to this water for its healing properties. Now it is nothing more than an inconvenience to those whom have rejected the now available treated rural water for the free stuff out of the ground.
Whats my point ? This is the exact same stuff that is in chinese drywall and it is no more than a temporary inconvenience. Why rip out $80,000 in drywall when it will soon hydrogen sulfide to such a negligable level and later entirely.
Yes it sucks that it is there but the goverment has tested the stuff and finds the gasses being produced are not a hazard. Yep your eyes may water a bit at first, it may give you a minor sore throat but it wont harm you. Dont walk out of your homes and ruin your credit, your home will soon be free of hydrogen sulfide gas without any action on the homeowners behalf.
OK, you guys are saying what does this guy know about science and health. This subject was brought up around a gathering of friends that consisted of a geologist whom cleans up corporate and goverment chemical messes, a college professor PHD in Bioengineering and two MD’s a Pulmonoligist and Cardioligist. Their oppinion is it is much to do about nothing and the chemicals adhering the paper are just as harmful as the gas.
The lesson to be learned, dont buy chinese products, they are inferior, have a track record of being sub standard and are commonly made with complete disregard to the well being of the end consumer.
The Chinese government is SELLING the exploitation of their people and environment.
The American Government and Corporations are the PIMPS that are buying to undercut what our laboring class has faught and died for, to build sine the begining of the industrial revolution… a modest “middle class”.
Is it worth it? YES, to the Chinese leaders/government AND to the American Corporate Executives (highest salary ratio between worker and exec in history) AND the American STOCK HOLDER (higher dividends from companies that can REDUCE labor costs and sell China Cheap).
So, now in America. Don’t work, INVEST. Be a capitalist, not a laborer.
And, at some point if you have to pay higher taxes as a capitalist, be comforted in knowing that you are STILL SAVING MONEY, becasue it is CHEAPER to pay taxes to keep the now “unemployed laborer” or “laborer making minimum wage” alive via wellfare than it is to pay the laborer a “historically deacent wage” with some degree of benefits and retirement. Yes, economists will show that it is cheaper to give a man GOVERNMENT CHEESE, GOVERNMENT HOUSING AND YES, GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE than it is to pay a deacent wage!
We need to get better at exposing ourselves to less risk. We may be laboring under the belief that products made outside the US are made with the same quality controls. Especially with something as observedly innocuous as drywall…gypsum, water, some admixtures for curing…therein lies the problem and the question…what was added to the “formula” to aid in the setting / drying process. Market demand was so high because of damages sustained by natural meteorological events that something in the manufacturing process had to “give”. In speaking with some of my counterparts who have observed the product during installation the comment came back that this drywall product was more brittle during handling and installation.
Look, the government is only doing what we have allowed them to do. You and Me and all the rest of US have chosen to NOT be diligent in who we send to office and have done a poor job of performance scoring those we did send to office. The ‘government’ has just done what they thought you wanted. Personally I attempt to do all of my purchasing from sources I can identify where it comes from. Want to straighten out the trade imbalance, don’t wait for ‘government’ action, do it yourself at the grocery, clothing, shoe, auto, and DIY stores. Then when you are feeling good about how you’re doing, do it at the polls.
There are some ignorant comments being posted here. I am a Chinese drywall homeowner and let’s get a few things straight. I didn’t purchase chinese drywall, I purchased a home that had the wall board already installed. It was also painted. So who would know? Two. It isn’t just a problem of the smell. It is about the corrosion of the copper. It is currently over 80 degrees outside. Sadly the same inside as I just had another A/C failure! So there in lies the problem. My home is corroding from the inside (copper wire & hvac) out. No one wants this home, not even me! What should we do? Want to vaction here in FL in my home :-)
I do get it! You didnt ask for it and you had no control and no idea that there was even such a thing as chinese drywall.
You are going to have an issue with the romax wiring in your home, the end of the wires will corrode to black and there will be a few times that you need to pull outlet and switches if they loose a good contact. Your copper pipes will get a black corrosion on them, If you have a sterling silver set it will tarnish badly and requires more frequent polishing, some decorative household items with brass, copper or silver will tarnish, metalic paints will tarnish, Your jewelry will tarnish and require cleaning, The evaporator coil on the inside unit of your HVAC and its copper tubing will corrode causing leakage and could ultimately cause your outside compressor to fail because of lack coolant pressure. Your house guests think that dog has constant gas and there is that faint smell of rotten eggs.
The upside is that this will go away eventualy as the sheet rock dissipates all of its sulfide gasses. Truly it is a pain in the behind to invest big bucks into a new home and have to deal with this but it will go away and a few years down the road it will all be forgotten by you and buyers.
It is not worth walking away and ruining your valuable credit. And yes, id love to vacation in your home.
Question-how is it the CPSC, in the span of two weeks, goes from saying no link between Chinese Drywall and health/property damage problems to a “strong link” to health and property damage concerns????? Did they miss something major or did political pressure play a role? Why do I smell trial lawyers???
I posed the same question to my scientist friends and of course it came down to the unknown sulfur content of the drywall. The gas itself dissipates quickly but the catalyst seems to be moisture and both florida and Louisiana have the market cornered on both. The stuff is not Krypton and will not produce and endless supply of gas and naturally once the gasses subside corrosion will as well.
I would hazard a guess that over 90% of homes are plumbed with pvc or poly given the price of copper. My experience is that a home with a high content of hydrogen sulfide gas will suffer very little in the long run although the greatest casualty is copper plumbing when filled with “sulfur water” and after 20 years you start seeing leaks. Keep in mind this is in constant contact with a higher concentration and not gas. As I mentioned in my first blog that romex copper wiring is also a casualty of the gas but usually only to the point it tarnishes at the exposed end and if a switch fails a repair of stripping a quarter inch will solve the issue for another 20 years. The gas will not destroy or eat through any gauge of romex but just tarnish it.
Again, the gas is nothing new in homes just a new vehicle of delivery.
The answer is that it is a bit of both! First commenting quickly on the science; the problem is Reduced Sulfur Compounds (RSC) contained within the gypsum. When exposed to temperature and humidity sulfur based gases and compounds are created. These cause corrosion and are a respiratory irritant. All of this is exacerbated current building codes require “tight”, low air infiltration buildings. One comment said “wait a while and it will go away when the drywall has outgased all of the sulfur”; this could happen, but it will take decades. Some homes have already had multiple HVAC system failures.
From the government’s viewpoint this is a political hot potato. If the EPA says that this is a “pollutant” we have a problem similar to Radon; can’t sell a home if the problem is not fixed. If the CPSC says it is product defect that impacts safety there is the potential for a product recall. In both cases there are really no deep pockets to pay for any of this. Insurance coverage is limited or non-existent in both cases.
Contractor GL policies beginning in the mid-2000’s began limiting coverage of construction defects (recall EFIS and other problems of the past). So at the very best there is limited coverage and the contractor is likely to have a significant amount of retention. If it is a pollutant it is excluded. With the recent bust in the construction industry there isn’t much money there. One could go after the supplier. Yeah, let’s sue China!
HO policies exclude both pollutants and construction defects; hence no coverage. More recently some carriers have cancelled (or refused to renew) after a Chinese drywall claim was filed. The rational is that it is a hazard that could result in a covered peril loss. More recently some carriers have backed down on this position; but the CPSC findings could change that.
Where does this leave the homeowner? They are between a rock and a hard place. They cannot sell the home. They may not be able to get insurance as required by their mortgage holder. One solution is to walk away from the home since their equity is less than what they owe. The loan defaults and is probably insured (or held) by a government agency; another bailout in the works. An estimate of this exposure is in excess of $15B!!
Thom: Sounds to me as if there is a half life to this stuff. I might have a tendency to agree with some of your observations with the exception that the sheets are run through heated dryers and in one of your statements abuot putting the pitcher of sulphur water in the fridge to air out what would be holding any sulphur in the product? It also sounds as if heat and humidity are playing a major part of the problem. Has anybody tested the sulpher content of the drywall? How does the hydrpgen sulphur and other possible gassing off of formaldahyde contribute to corrosion issues? I also agree with your observation on copper wiring and the corrosion rates associated. My concern would be for very sensitive electronics in the home.
Thank you Thom. Of course no one is going to believe you. Factual or not. Somewhere someone’s going to get rich from this. Can you say lawyers?
Non-science. 41 homes does not constitute proof.
In an attempt to save money (greed) companies are using cheap labor without safety and building requirements. This is not the first product we are seeing from China that have devastating effects on the United States. Thre is a pattern. The tie between insurance and politics is our government is allowing quality of products from China to be sacrificed for our safety. Why? There are several insurance products that have a direct correlation with allowing these products in our country without the proper regulations. These products include (but are not limited to) property insurance (commercial and personal)perhaps health insurance and we hope not life insurance. As a country hopefully we will stop allowing inferior products from China into our country, because of low wages, and human rights issues (labor laws). I know in the short term when we purchase an item we save money. The question is do we really gain (save) when we consider the costs of lawsuits, higher insurance premiums (as a result of claims) , and most importantly the health of individuals who are negatively impacted by inferior products such as we are seeing from China.
This seems a little out of control and let me share with you why. I grew up on a family farm that had been occupied by mine and past generations for nearly 150 years. This part of Missouri is plagued with sulfur water that emits hydrogen sulfide gas, the exact same stuff as in the drywall. The downside is your precious metals will tarnish, you smell rotten eggs when you bath and your city friends gag when they are exposed to the fumes. Otherwise, it is an inconvenience till your drinking water airs out in a pitcher in the fridge.
People flocked to our area from all over the world in the late 1800s to expose themselves to this water for its healing properties. Now it is nothing more than an inconvenience to those whom have rejected the now available treated rural water for the free stuff out of the ground.
Whats my point ? This is the exact same stuff that is in chinese drywall and it is no more than a temporary inconvenience. Why rip out $80,000 in drywall when it will soon hydrogen sulfide to such a negligable level and later entirely.
Yes it sucks that it is there but the goverment has tested the stuff and finds the gasses being produced are not a hazard. Yep your eyes may water a bit at first, it may give you a minor sore throat but it wont harm you. Dont walk out of your homes and ruin your credit, your home will soon be free of hydrogen sulfide gas without any action on the homeowners behalf.
OK, you guys are saying what does this guy know about science and health. This subject was brought up around a gathering of friends that consisted of a geologist whom cleans up corporate and goverment chemical messes, a college professor PHD in Bioengineering and two MD’s a Pulmonoligist and Cardioligist. Their oppinion is it is much to do about nothing and the chemicals adhering the paper are just as harmful as the gas.
The lesson to be learned, dont buy chinese products, they are inferior, have a track record of being sub standard and are commonly made with complete disregard to the well being of the end consumer.
The Chinese government is SELLING the exploitation of their people and environment.
The American Government and Corporations are the PIMPS that are buying to undercut what our laboring class has faught and died for, to build sine the begining of the industrial revolution… a modest “middle class”.
Is it worth it? YES, to the Chinese leaders/government AND to the American Corporate Executives (highest salary ratio between worker and exec in history) AND the American STOCK HOLDER (higher dividends from companies that can REDUCE labor costs and sell China Cheap).
So, now in America. Don’t work, INVEST. Be a capitalist, not a laborer.
And, at some point if you have to pay higher taxes as a capitalist, be comforted in knowing that you are STILL SAVING MONEY, becasue it is CHEAPER to pay taxes to keep the now “unemployed laborer” or “laborer making minimum wage” alive via wellfare than it is to pay the laborer a “historically deacent wage” with some degree of benefits and retirement. Yes, economists will show that it is cheaper to give a man GOVERNMENT CHEESE, GOVERNMENT HOUSING AND YES, GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE than it is to pay a deacent wage!
Sincerely,
A REAL Capitalist!
They are having similar problems with American Drywall now too!
CBS NEWS – Google it
We need to get better at exposing ourselves to less risk. We may be laboring under the belief that products made outside the US are made with the same quality controls. Especially with something as observedly innocuous as drywall…gypsum, water, some admixtures for curing…therein lies the problem and the question…what was added to the “formula” to aid in the setting / drying process. Market demand was so high because of damages sustained by natural meteorological events that something in the manufacturing process had to “give”. In speaking with some of my counterparts who have observed the product during installation the comment came back that this drywall product was more brittle during handling and installation.
Look, the government is only doing what we have allowed them to do. You and Me and all the rest of US have chosen to NOT be diligent in who we send to office and have done a poor job of performance scoring those we did send to office. The ‘government’ has just done what they thought you wanted. Personally I attempt to do all of my purchasing from sources I can identify where it comes from. Want to straighten out the trade imbalance, don’t wait for ‘government’ action, do it yourself at the grocery, clothing, shoe, auto, and DIY stores. Then when you are feeling good about how you’re doing, do it at the polls.
Im going to make a movie where the Chinese take over all our businesses – Even on the service end (along with India of course)
But then after we default on our debt, oddly nothing happens, except that mysteriously 1000’s of people and their dogs go randomly missing.
They are secretly sent by the American Govt to slave camps in China, where they are eventually eaten by the Chinese population for being fat and lazy.
There are some ignorant comments being posted here. I am a Chinese drywall homeowner and let’s get a few things straight. I didn’t purchase chinese drywall, I purchased a home that had the wall board already installed. It was also painted. So who would know? Two. It isn’t just a problem of the smell. It is about the corrosion of the copper. It is currently over 80 degrees outside. Sadly the same inside as I just had another A/C failure! So there in lies the problem. My home is corroding from the inside (copper wire & hvac) out. No one wants this home, not even me! What should we do? Want to vaction here in FL in my home :-)
I do get it! You didnt ask for it and you had no control and no idea that there was even such a thing as chinese drywall.
You are going to have an issue with the romax wiring in your home, the end of the wires will corrode to black and there will be a few times that you need to pull outlet and switches if they loose a good contact. Your copper pipes will get a black corrosion on them, If you have a sterling silver set it will tarnish badly and requires more frequent polishing, some decorative household items with brass, copper or silver will tarnish, metalic paints will tarnish, Your jewelry will tarnish and require cleaning, The evaporator coil on the inside unit of your HVAC and its copper tubing will corrode causing leakage and could ultimately cause your outside compressor to fail because of lack coolant pressure. Your house guests think that dog has constant gas and there is that faint smell of rotten eggs.
The upside is that this will go away eventualy as the sheet rock dissipates all of its sulfide gasses. Truly it is a pain in the behind to invest big bucks into a new home and have to deal with this but it will go away and a few years down the road it will all be forgotten by you and buyers.
It is not worth walking away and ruining your valuable credit. And yes, id love to vacation in your home.
Thanks Thom
Question-how is it the CPSC, in the span of two weeks, goes from saying no link between Chinese Drywall and health/property damage problems to a “strong link” to health and property damage concerns????? Did they miss something major or did political pressure play a role? Why do I smell trial lawyers???
You have a good nose! But who would they sue and where would they sue?
Chinese drywall, the asbestos and mold of the next decade. I can see the lawyers salivating now. Cha ching!!
Thom, how long does it take for the problem to dissipate?
I posed the same question to my scientist friends and of course it came down to the unknown sulfur content of the drywall. The gas itself dissipates quickly but the catalyst seems to be moisture and both florida and Louisiana have the market cornered on both. The stuff is not Krypton and will not produce and endless supply of gas and naturally once the gasses subside corrosion will as well.
I would hazard a guess that over 90% of homes are plumbed with pvc or poly given the price of copper. My experience is that a home with a high content of hydrogen sulfide gas will suffer very little in the long run although the greatest casualty is copper plumbing when filled with “sulfur water” and after 20 years you start seeing leaks. Keep in mind this is in constant contact with a higher concentration and not gas. As I mentioned in my first blog that romex copper wiring is also a casualty of the gas but usually only to the point it tarnishes at the exposed end and if a switch fails a repair of stripping a quarter inch will solve the issue for another 20 years. The gas will not destroy or eat through any gauge of romex but just tarnish it.
Again, the gas is nothing new in homes just a new vehicle of delivery.
Dwain, lawyers smell so blind people can hate them too!
Havent heard that one yet, Very Funny !
The answer is that it is a bit of both! First commenting quickly on the science; the problem is Reduced Sulfur Compounds (RSC) contained within the gypsum. When exposed to temperature and humidity sulfur based gases and compounds are created. These cause corrosion and are a respiratory irritant. All of this is exacerbated current building codes require “tight”, low air infiltration buildings. One comment said “wait a while and it will go away when the drywall has outgased all of the sulfur”; this could happen, but it will take decades. Some homes have already had multiple HVAC system failures.
From the government’s viewpoint this is a political hot potato. If the EPA says that this is a “pollutant” we have a problem similar to Radon; can’t sell a home if the problem is not fixed. If the CPSC says it is product defect that impacts safety there is the potential for a product recall. In both cases there are really no deep pockets to pay for any of this. Insurance coverage is limited or non-existent in both cases.
Contractor GL policies beginning in the mid-2000’s began limiting coverage of construction defects (recall EFIS and other problems of the past). So at the very best there is limited coverage and the contractor is likely to have a significant amount of retention. If it is a pollutant it is excluded. With the recent bust in the construction industry there isn’t much money there. One could go after the supplier. Yeah, let’s sue China!
HO policies exclude both pollutants and construction defects; hence no coverage. More recently some carriers have cancelled (or refused to renew) after a Chinese drywall claim was filed. The rational is that it is a hazard that could result in a covered peril loss. More recently some carriers have backed down on this position; but the CPSC findings could change that.
Where does this leave the homeowner? They are between a rock and a hard place. They cannot sell the home. They may not be able to get insurance as required by their mortgage holder. One solution is to walk away from the home since their equity is less than what they owe. The loan defaults and is probably insured (or held) by a government agency; another bailout in the works. An estimate of this exposure is in excess of $15B!!