This is another case where our guvner(sic) has illustrted not only her level of competency and knowledge as a governor os teh State of Washington, but also her lack of understanding and belief in the Constitution. Look at it this way: she bought the governorship, Little Mikey was elected as OIC, Rob McKenna was elected as Attorney General. I suggest Lil Mikey and Chrisy read the job descriptions of their positions and the job description for the Attorney General. And then reflect on they fact that all three onlyreport to and work for one body. That is not an imposter in DC, it is NOT the Governor, IT IS the electorate of Washington State and the Attorney General is correct in calling BS to the continued userpation of states rights by comrade barry. It is time both lil mikey and Chrissy were kicked out of office and sent to work out of the WA dc office the guvner used to rent as guvner for her hubby while he was lobbying for who knows who or what in our nations cesspool.
“The group of four governors will need special permission to join the case, since a U.S. district judge ruled that friend of the court filings would be barred. Their request was filed on Wednesday afternoon.”
Thank you for waiting until the final paragraph to point out the governors are doing nothing more than playing politics here.
These leftists are disgusting. Obama and the leftists lied to the country’s collective face in putting this legislation together. Obama said this bill would:
1. Be a bipartisan effort (lie 1).
2. Would control costs (lie 2) – the leftists did the bidding of the trial lawyers, against the overall goodwill fo the general populace.
3. Not cause those who like their plans to change them (lie 3). Any person that modifies a plan they currently like, will now be forced into these Madoff-Care plans.
4. Cause all to be covered (lie 4) – Not everyone will be covered, and due to prices sky-rocketing due to this legislation – and greedy leftists and trial lawyers – many people will now find that coverage has become too expensive to obtain. At the same time, those with everyday, simple conditions (high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.), who were previously able to attain coverage through small groups with no individual rating, will find their employers are better off paying fines for not offering coverage, as opposed to paying 40-100% more, due to this Madoff-Care scam raising insurance rates.
Generally, to be a leftist democrat party member, one has to be, at core, and evil person. This bill is nothing more than a scam, which is designed to turn carriers into wholly-owned subsidiaries of the government, with the end-game being universal, government-run (i.e. totally politicized and rationed) care.
If you doubt this, please explain why unions are generally exempt from nearly all of the onerous requirements of this bill? Is it because the laws of economics do not apply to them? Oh yeah, they give millions to the leftist democrat party.
These people, and any members of this party, are sick pigs, who are holding the American populace hostage to union thugs, trial lawyers, and eco-terrorists. Hey democrat party members: are you in on it, or just absolutely lacking in economic training, and a knowledge of history?
Mike you and Tommy are the majority of voters, The liberal media is so in the tank for Obama and his agenda that they have become blind to public opinion as well. I fear that our media is so out of touch that government has no checks and balances anymore over the public. In a democracy we need to have all points of view represented in the media. Now you would think that Obama is doing a great job on the economy, oil spill, Iran/Isreal issues, Afganistan war, Jobs, energy Cap and trade, All are total failures for this administration.
jUST ONE QUESTION FOR THE FEW WHO POSTED: HOW DOES ANY OF THIS AFFECT YOU, PERSONALLY AND DIRECTLY? If you have insurance now, how do you feel about the cost shifting that has been the way that the healthcare system “pays” for the uninsured? We’ve been subsisizing the uninsured all along. How can we be the beacon of light to the rest of the world when so many of us are just greedy b*$stards who aren’t (and don’t want to be) our brother’s keepers? Now what was that about how this nation was built on christian values? Help me understand where this high volume irrational diatribe comes from. By the way, as soon as you throw in a couple of jingoistic phrases and talking points, you loose your credibility. Make your case without trying to poison any other idea and you might succeed in improving your position. As it is now, you’re just some A*$hole with a bull horn. Without the internet you have no soapbox and your neighbors won’t want to stop by, even if you are buying the lemonade.
Thank you, Smartypants. Thank you for your commentary with which I agree.
Just because you all think no one wants this health care program doesn’t make it so. Recent polls have indicated that most of the people do support it for what it will provide; protection against cancellation, protection against caps, protection against not being able to get insurance at all, and much more scrutiny of health insurance carriers.
It is a start. How would you all have handled the 46 million uninsured, some if not most of which want insurance but cannot afford it or cannot get it?
If there are inadequate numbers of doctors to handle the influx or it is too expensive, well, then, other actions will have to be taken…and I am sure, will be taken. If the end result is a single payor system, then so much the better as far as I am concerned.
If the Republicans had actually tried to participate with good spirit (and some did originally) we might have had a better bill, but it was just more politically expedient to pander to the likes of you all rather than do what is best for the majority of the people.
You all are screaming before you are hurt…and screaming nastily, at that.
To adress your issues. (BTW Cassandra, your approach was much more effective then Smartypants’ was).
How does it effect those who already have insurance? Simple economics. I see two groups of people that do not have health insurance. Those who can’t get it and those who do not want to get it. I will address the latter first. If the ones who just don’t buy insurance because they don’t want to, and as long as they stay healthly, will help the bottomline for insurance costs, but you then have a possible morale hazard of “Well I have insurance now so let me go see the doctor because I have the sniffles”. For people that can’t get insurance, its quite obvious on how that will effect everyone. Insurance companies will have to pay a lot more out on these unfortunate individuals, then insurance companies will have one of two options; 1. Increase their rates in order to cover the losses or ; 2. Close up shop.
Now, Smartypants started out with a “question” on how do we suggest we cover these indivduales that can not get insurance. Well, the first thing I wonder is how many of them waited until AFTER they got sick before attempting to get insurance? I want to go out on a limb and say I think more people fall under that group then “I have been insured my whole life, got sick, and then my insurance company dropped me”. I am not saying that DOESN’T happen, I am trying to say i don’t think it happens as much as the media wants us to beleive. But how do we cover these people? Instead of forcing insurance companies to cover them (a.k.a telling insurance companies how to underwrite) make a high risk pool for people that get turned down for health insurance, just like they do for auto.
To address Cassandra’s comment about polls showing that most people want this health bill, I will go on record to say that I don’t trust polls. It is waaaaay too easy to make it bias. How the question is asked, where it is asked, who asks it, when they ask it, all these can be used to change a result. So I don’t trust polls I get from MSNBC OR from Fox.
Also, it is HUGE problem to have a single payor system. You can not shop for insurance if there is only one company to choose from. If they decide not to pay for something, where else are you going to go? If they want to increase how much they are charging you, it has been made illegal to NOT have health insurance, or face a fine, where else are you going to get your health insurance if its single payor?
Here are my biggest problems I have with the health care bill that was past.
1. It did nothing to lower the cost of health insurance.
2. It is telling insurance companies how to underwrite (No excluding pre-ex conditions). Whats to stop someone from just paying the fine for not carrying health insurance (and if they are being paid “under the table” good luck trying to collect that fine in the first place) until they get really sick, then join some insurance policy because “Hey, insurance companies can’t exclude pre-exisiting conditions!”
3. Overall, I predict that it will acutally INCREASE the cost of health insurance instead of lower it for the reasons stated earlier in my post)
Oh I well agree with you that there are infinite problems with our healthcare system. But I also am not so cynical to believe that most people wait to get sick before they seek insurance(everyone knows you can’t get it when you really need it anyway). I also know that we have to have the healthy be insured to balance out those with pre existing conditions, etc., etc., etc…we are all good little insurance students…we know the drill
The issue is that our healthcare system is increasing in cost anyway with all the abuses or excesses still in the system; the new healthcare bill may exacerbate those increases but will not be the cause…which is inflating costs quite nicely all by iteself and has been for the past decade.
While I do not want to get political here but rather merely point out….the the “death panels” so feared are already here and insurors have few qualms about denying treatments and rationing on their own terms right now…with little or no oversight.
What this bill SHOULD have done was, at MINIMUM:
1. curbed fraud and other excesses that are bleeding our system dry…I see it every day and I am sure you do too
2. curbed lawsuits and cap certain damages so we do not have this epidemic of overtreating
3. make clinics more profitable or more widespread so the emergency room is not the only alternative on a sunday night
4. really study, along with medical and lay personnel best practices and institute them. For instance, how many people are billed for infections they get IN the hospital? How many health problems are caused by failure to cooordinate medical treatments?
5. Make the family physician/general practitioner more attractive by “buying down” medical school loans for those who agree to be general practicioners for 7 years before specializing
6. Make uneeded procedures non reimsbursable
7. negotiate with big Pharma for lower costs. How stupid is it that Medicare/ cannot negotiate pill pricing? Whose brilliant idea was that (Eli Lilly?)
Anyway, you get the picture.
That our legislative bodies are so polarized is accomplishing nothing for the citizens, which ever way you chose to lean, right or left.
This is another case where our guvner(sic) has illustrted not only her level of competency and knowledge as a governor os teh State of Washington, but also her lack of understanding and belief in the Constitution. Look at it this way: she bought the governorship, Little Mikey was elected as OIC, Rob McKenna was elected as Attorney General. I suggest Lil Mikey and Chrisy read the job descriptions of their positions and the job description for the Attorney General. And then reflect on they fact that all three onlyreport to and work for one body. That is not an imposter in DC, it is NOT the Governor, IT IS the electorate of Washington State and the Attorney General is correct in calling BS to the continued userpation of states rights by comrade barry. It is time both lil mikey and Chrissy were kicked out of office and sent to work out of the WA dc office the guvner used to rent as guvner for her hubby while he was lobbying for who knows who or what in our nations cesspool.
“The group of four governors will need special permission to join the case, since a U.S. district judge ruled that friend of the court filings would be barred. Their request was filed on Wednesday afternoon.”
Thank you for waiting until the final paragraph to point out the governors are doing nothing more than playing politics here.
These leftists are disgusting. Obama and the leftists lied to the country’s collective face in putting this legislation together. Obama said this bill would:
1. Be a bipartisan effort (lie 1).
2. Would control costs (lie 2) – the leftists did the bidding of the trial lawyers, against the overall goodwill fo the general populace.
3. Not cause those who like their plans to change them (lie 3). Any person that modifies a plan they currently like, will now be forced into these Madoff-Care plans.
4. Cause all to be covered (lie 4) – Not everyone will be covered, and due to prices sky-rocketing due to this legislation – and greedy leftists and trial lawyers – many people will now find that coverage has become too expensive to obtain. At the same time, those with everyday, simple conditions (high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.), who were previously able to attain coverage through small groups with no individual rating, will find their employers are better off paying fines for not offering coverage, as opposed to paying 40-100% more, due to this Madoff-Care scam raising insurance rates.
Generally, to be a leftist democrat party member, one has to be, at core, and evil person. This bill is nothing more than a scam, which is designed to turn carriers into wholly-owned subsidiaries of the government, with the end-game being universal, government-run (i.e. totally politicized and rationed) care.
If you doubt this, please explain why unions are generally exempt from nearly all of the onerous requirements of this bill? Is it because the laws of economics do not apply to them? Oh yeah, they give millions to the leftist democrat party.
These people, and any members of this party, are sick pigs, who are holding the American populace hostage to union thugs, trial lawyers, and eco-terrorists. Hey democrat party members: are you in on it, or just absolutely lacking in economic training, and a knowledge of history?
Ditto x 10. Also, can someone explain how funding which is contained in this legislation for an additional 16,000 IRS agents improves my healthcare.
Mike you and Tommy are the majority of voters, The liberal media is so in the tank for Obama and his agenda that they have become blind to public opinion as well. I fear that our media is so out of touch that government has no checks and balances anymore over the public. In a democracy we need to have all points of view represented in the media. Now you would think that Obama is doing a great job on the economy, oil spill, Iran/Isreal issues, Afganistan war, Jobs, energy Cap and trade, All are total failures for this administration.
I AM VERY WORRIED ABOUT OUR GREAT NATION!
jUST ONE QUESTION FOR THE FEW WHO POSTED: HOW DOES ANY OF THIS AFFECT YOU, PERSONALLY AND DIRECTLY? If you have insurance now, how do you feel about the cost shifting that has been the way that the healthcare system “pays” for the uninsured? We’ve been subsisizing the uninsured all along. How can we be the beacon of light to the rest of the world when so many of us are just greedy b*$stards who aren’t (and don’t want to be) our brother’s keepers? Now what was that about how this nation was built on christian values? Help me understand where this high volume irrational diatribe comes from. By the way, as soon as you throw in a couple of jingoistic phrases and talking points, you loose your credibility. Make your case without trying to poison any other idea and you might succeed in improving your position. As it is now, you’re just some A*$hole with a bull horn. Without the internet you have no soapbox and your neighbors won’t want to stop by, even if you are buying the lemonade.
Thank you, Smartypants. Thank you for your commentary with which I agree.
Just because you all think no one wants this health care program doesn’t make it so. Recent polls have indicated that most of the people do support it for what it will provide; protection against cancellation, protection against caps, protection against not being able to get insurance at all, and much more scrutiny of health insurance carriers.
It is a start. How would you all have handled the 46 million uninsured, some if not most of which want insurance but cannot afford it or cannot get it?
If there are inadequate numbers of doctors to handle the influx or it is too expensive, well, then, other actions will have to be taken…and I am sure, will be taken. If the end result is a single payor system, then so much the better as far as I am concerned.
If the Republicans had actually tried to participate with good spirit (and some did originally) we might have had a better bill, but it was just more politically expedient to pander to the likes of you all rather than do what is best for the majority of the people.
You all are screaming before you are hurt…and screaming nastily, at that.
To adress your issues. (BTW Cassandra, your approach was much more effective then Smartypants’ was).
How does it effect those who already have insurance? Simple economics. I see two groups of people that do not have health insurance. Those who can’t get it and those who do not want to get it. I will address the latter first. If the ones who just don’t buy insurance because they don’t want to, and as long as they stay healthly, will help the bottomline for insurance costs, but you then have a possible morale hazard of “Well I have insurance now so let me go see the doctor because I have the sniffles”. For people that can’t get insurance, its quite obvious on how that will effect everyone. Insurance companies will have to pay a lot more out on these unfortunate individuals, then insurance companies will have one of two options; 1. Increase their rates in order to cover the losses or ; 2. Close up shop.
Now, Smartypants started out with a “question” on how do we suggest we cover these indivduales that can not get insurance. Well, the first thing I wonder is how many of them waited until AFTER they got sick before attempting to get insurance? I want to go out on a limb and say I think more people fall under that group then “I have been insured my whole life, got sick, and then my insurance company dropped me”. I am not saying that DOESN’T happen, I am trying to say i don’t think it happens as much as the media wants us to beleive. But how do we cover these people? Instead of forcing insurance companies to cover them (a.k.a telling insurance companies how to underwrite) make a high risk pool for people that get turned down for health insurance, just like they do for auto.
To address Cassandra’s comment about polls showing that most people want this health bill, I will go on record to say that I don’t trust polls. It is waaaaay too easy to make it bias. How the question is asked, where it is asked, who asks it, when they ask it, all these can be used to change a result. So I don’t trust polls I get from MSNBC OR from Fox.
Also, it is HUGE problem to have a single payor system. You can not shop for insurance if there is only one company to choose from. If they decide not to pay for something, where else are you going to go? If they want to increase how much they are charging you, it has been made illegal to NOT have health insurance, or face a fine, where else are you going to get your health insurance if its single payor?
Here are my biggest problems I have with the health care bill that was past.
1. It did nothing to lower the cost of health insurance.
2. It is telling insurance companies how to underwrite (No excluding pre-ex conditions). Whats to stop someone from just paying the fine for not carrying health insurance (and if they are being paid “under the table” good luck trying to collect that fine in the first place) until they get really sick, then join some insurance policy because “Hey, insurance companies can’t exclude pre-exisiting conditions!”
3. Overall, I predict that it will acutally INCREASE the cost of health insurance instead of lower it for the reasons stated earlier in my post)
Nerd
Oh I well agree with you that there are infinite problems with our healthcare system. But I also am not so cynical to believe that most people wait to get sick before they seek insurance(everyone knows you can’t get it when you really need it anyway). I also know that we have to have the healthy be insured to balance out those with pre existing conditions, etc., etc., etc…we are all good little insurance students…we know the drill
The issue is that our healthcare system is increasing in cost anyway with all the abuses or excesses still in the system; the new healthcare bill may exacerbate those increases but will not be the cause…which is inflating costs quite nicely all by iteself and has been for the past decade.
While I do not want to get political here but rather merely point out….the the “death panels” so feared are already here and insurors have few qualms about denying treatments and rationing on their own terms right now…with little or no oversight.
What this bill SHOULD have done was, at MINIMUM:
1. curbed fraud and other excesses that are bleeding our system dry…I see it every day and I am sure you do too
2. curbed lawsuits and cap certain damages so we do not have this epidemic of overtreating
3. make clinics more profitable or more widespread so the emergency room is not the only alternative on a sunday night
4. really study, along with medical and lay personnel best practices and institute them. For instance, how many people are billed for infections they get IN the hospital? How many health problems are caused by failure to cooordinate medical treatments?
5. Make the family physician/general practitioner more attractive by “buying down” medical school loans for those who agree to be general practicioners for 7 years before specializing
6. Make uneeded procedures non reimsbursable
7. negotiate with big Pharma for lower costs. How stupid is it that Medicare/ cannot negotiate pill pricing? Whose brilliant idea was that (Eli Lilly?)
Anyway, you get the picture.
That our legislative bodies are so polarized is accomplishing nothing for the citizens, which ever way you chose to lean, right or left.