I would love a 3% or 4% increase in my medical insurance. I have a small business (under 20 employees) in Florida. My renewal premium increased 29% last year and now 27% this year.
It is ludicrous to thing the average person is going to go out and shop medical services. Most do what the doctor tells them. Normal people don’t treat their health like a commodity.
The medical system needs to change and obamacare needs to go.
yay, the “let’s be the first people to insult others” group is out in full effect. phew. we ALMOST went 3 posts without the president and a political affiliation being attacked. good job guys. keep up the insults. they’re doing great to foster intelligent discourse here. (end sarcasm) i bet the anonymous downvoters will follow this thread too.
We tried intelligent discourse before obamacareless was passed and realized you can’t fix liberal stupid. It’s simple MATH (Actuarially speaking) and 50% of America didn’t get it, and still don’t.
Besides we just beat the left to the usual racist,bigot,bla bla bla, you get it.
“liberal stupid” i see you keep making those insults even though nobody insulted you back. how about this….
(1) you insult someone or group of people because you want to beat them to the punch. after all, they were just going to insult you anyway. okay. i’ll give you that.
(2) if nobody returns your insult, how about you just stop insulting them? why continue to troll and insulting?
if someone wants to go insult-for-insult with you, game on. attack away. if you’re the only one who’s insulting again and again, and nobody is returning those volleys back to you, how about you swallow a mature pill and just stfu with all the insults?
September 19, 2016 at 1:56 pm
Bob says:
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Your comment shows you don’t understand differences in insulting.
It appears you took our argument as a learning base, I appreciate your attempt on that. I really do, but you’re applying it incorrectly.
When I told you that you were arguing with someone who hadn’t yet commented, (Agent) that was an individual.
In this case Jack is sick of a particular stupid type of liberal that did not look at this plan, and is at fault for obamacare.
In this, he is justified.
Is he on moral high ground? No. But neither are you when you try to shut him down on the basis you are.
You could just shift the debate to facts.
September 19, 2016 at 3:35 pm
confused says:
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my apologies bob. apparently i never got the memo outlining which insults are acceptable here and which aren’t. do you have any cheat sheet i can reference for the future so you don’t get on my case for calling someone out for insulting groups of people twice when the attacked group hadn’t insulted the poster even once yet?
September 19, 2016 at 3:42 pm
confused says:
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maybe that last reply was too snarky. if so, i sincerely apologize. here. let’s try this reply instead:
you said I need to shift the debate to the facts.
exactly how would you do that in response to Jack’s post about “Obola hole” and that “Libtardism is a mental disorder”
Something like “Hey Jack – Libtardism is not in the DSM-V book, so the facts prove you’re wrong” or “Jack – calling him Obola hole is wrong, his name is Obama”?
You know he didn’t REALLY mean those were factual statements, right? So how would you reply to those nasty insulting statements to try and get the conversation back to on-topic facts? I am really curious how you’d handle the “back to facts” reply, which is why i sincerely apologized for my last snarky reply. what say you?
September 19, 2016 at 4:15 pm
Bob says:
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Confused:
I was actually trying to be nice in my last comment which is why I said I noted that you are trying to stop insults. I find that a good goal to attain.
However, to stop all insults of ideas would stop all forms of debate which I don’t like.
Ridiculing ideas I find to be fine. Ridiculing individuals I do not.
Attributing blame I find to be fine, so long as one doesn’t do it in cliche lines. If you blame someone for something, stating it as a matter of fact does frustrate me. Jack edged that line like a lot of liberals here.
However, to go after him for being upset with these liberals is too far. It makes more sense to demand his numbers then to shut him down and to tell him to stop insulting.
I want debate and banter.
I would have preferred to watch you two duke it out with numbers.
I only really go to place like this to see what the left has to say, and the reactions of the right to see where they lack facts.
If both sides don’t go into that I can’t learn.
I also go here to test what I have learned in terms of argument strength. Again, I can’t do that if people focus on insults here.
Insults will always happen. If his line was just about an insult and not insulting a particular plan I believe he would not be edging the line and would have instead crossed it.
September 19, 2016 at 4:22 pm
Confused says:
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bob, see my reply to jack below. am i doing better or worse now? at least i’m trying, ya?
September 19, 2016 at 4:23 pm
Bob says:
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I hope I’m doing better too, I have been trying to focus on it a lot lately as I find I am also guilty of this. And Yes. That is superb. I will want to read his reply.
September 19, 2016 at 4:38 pm
Bob says:
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Also:
“Your comment shows you don’t understand differences in insulting.”
My starting by saying this is a bad habit I need to drop that does not encourage debate either. Instead, I should inquire and engage. This behavior stops engagement.
I truly want for us to have really engaging debates here Confused. I’ll try to do better myself as well. I am sorry for starting with that accusatory tone.
Jack – I know what the politicians said, but you’re not arguing what they told us – you’re arguing what liberals did or didn’t believe.
Please provide the source data to support your insult that ignorant libtards thought premiums would go down.
If citing voting numbers, please make sure you include non-elected officials as there are more liberal citizens in the country than there are liberals in our government.
I am actually curious as to what groups thought what though it may be impossible to find out.
I have seen many who believe one of the following things:
1. Premium growth has slowed and that is due to the ACA
2. Premium growth has slowed and that is due to conditions that have occurred world wide rather than the ACA.
3. Premium growth has increased, in line with coverage increases.
4. Premium growth has slowed, but deductibles and co pays have increased.
The question is, which are we looking at?
I believe that the debate is really:
1. Has premium growth slowed.
2. Is this in line with co pays and deductibles. If so, is this beneficial?
3. If this is due to economic conditions, should we ensure we pass something quickly for when these conditions change?
4. Will the ACA have a substantial affect here? (Evidence from CBO studies is what I usually source quote for this, but this is shaky science even I admit)
5. What options do we have?
Jack, if you focus on these areas you can win over liberals. If you don’t, you can’t.
I have been focusing on presenting the alternate options offered by the right.
If we don’t do that the millennials just get ticked off and call the republicans the party of no.
Perhaps if you go into these areas Confused might actually present his knowledge and maybe it will actually give some interesting information.
5. People who have seen premium growth slow and don’t believe it is the economic conditions, do believe it has slowed when compared to the increase in policies where increases have happened, and do believe that is due to the ACA.
You are likely talking about this group of people.
In my experience this is generally the millennials who believe this, though I don’t often see a lot of data on studies. I have seen a few liberal sources on it that draw conclusions but often without a lot of data.
If a liberal has a source on this, and has found their own data compiling Gov information, or other aspects they find to be relevant I want to encourage them to present it.
Bob, if you haven’t seen enough data over the course of 6 years by now, you are in the category of Rip Van Winkle and have been asleep all this time. Obamacare is a nightmare passed on a pack of lies and has done great harm to this country. Sorry you have not been able to gather the facts on this.
I have seen the information, ergo why I said above:
“I have seen a few liberal sources on it that draw conclusions but often without a lot of data.”
This is my way of saying I have seen only a few liberal sources that take all of the above into consideration, and most of them try to say number 5 but they are not at all correct.
If someone has studies that have any validity regarding item 5, I have not seen them. And if they do I want to debate them.
This does not mean they don’t exist. I am open to the possibility of being wrong and I want to defeat these studies if they are out there.
September 19, 2016 at 6:07 pm
Bob says:
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I suspect we are on the same side based on your last comment Deplorables. You don’t need to convince me of the issues with Obamacare. If I were however happy with it, your comment above wouldn’t change my mind. Don’t you want to have the ability to possibly change these guys’s minds?
Let me do my thing and try to appeal to Millennials. You might not realize this but there is a cultural difference in millennials.
September 20, 2016 at 5:50 pm
Deplorables says:
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Bob, I direct you to Jack Kanaugh’s first post on this blog and then tell us how premium increases have slowed. This is going on all around the country and despite the increases, exchanges have been failing at an alarming rate because of the flawed concept of Obamacare. Surely, you have noticed.
“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? [Laughter/applause]. The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people, now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets offensive, hateful, mean-spirited rhetoric. Now some of those folks, they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.
“But the other basket, the other basket, and I know because I see friends from all over America here. I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas, as well as you know New York and California. But that other basket of people who are people who feel that government has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they are just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”
Now, please walk away from your 3 second sound-bite and speak to the 30 second sound-bite, which allows everyone to see the truth behind what she was trying to say.
September 22, 2016 at 9:04 am
Captain Planet says:
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DeploreAgent, we need some full context here:
“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? [Laughter/applause]. The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people, now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets offensive, hateful, mean-spirited rhetoric. Now some of those folks, they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.
“But the other basket, the other basket, and I know because I see friends from all over America here. I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas, as well as you know New York and California. But that other basket of people who are people who feel that government has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they are just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”
Now, please walk away from your 3 second sound-bite and speak to the 30 second sound-bite, which allows everyone to see the truth behind what she was trying to say.
September 16, 2016 at 2:44 pm
Ron says:
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Liberals have hope that the jackholes running these companies would not be taking 6 figure raises each year!!!, and passing it on in the guise of health care increases. Secondly some how someone with the balls and a brain needs to put through tort reform, before Malpractice Insurance is impossible to underwrite!
Watch late night TV? Jury’s haven’t a clue, and are not the peers of the medical professional they are judging, so the ambulance chasers get rich, the insurance industry raises the cost for malpractice insurances, and we all pay the price which all boils down to the Lawyer collecting 1/3 plus expenses to bring a lawsuit against a hospital or doctor due to the lack of testing done by a megadollar drug company, who donated millions to the Obama Establishment.
Bob, you will never change any liberal minds with studies showing how bad Obamacare has been and is. They don’t believe those studies anyway. What part of bankruptcy of the country do you not understand? I will give Obama some credit. He has succeeded wildly in creating an entitlement society where a large part of the population has their hand out for any government give away they can get their hands on. We are taking in $2.6 Trillion in taxes and spending $3.8 Trillion. How about those figures? Lowest labor participation rate in 40 years. How about those apples? Will increasing taxes to working people stimulate the economy and create jobs?
Deplorables – please cite your source proving liberals don’t believe that Obamacare has been bad. Was there actually a study, or are you just lumping an entire group of people together without any evidence?
As far as I remember, you have already been told by Ron & Rosenblatt & I that we think Obamacare is a failure, and you’ve labeled us liberals many many times.
That might be true, I may have no impact but I want to try and not get discouraged and mouthy.
You don’t have to convince me on the LPR either, or the spending.
Most of the time they default back to Bush W and Reagan on this one. I’m not saying that’s right, it also frustrates me.
You have to realize that Ron legitimately believe the ACA was not Obama’s. Or he made that argument once, and that is not uncommon in my age group. They think republicans had no options.
Instead I am taking the way liberal politicians fight and am throwing it in their face.
If they want to call us sexist while intentionally sabotaging and using women’s rights (Lilly Ledbetter act) I intend to point out republicans supported it with a few amendments, and then show that no one with a good moral conscience could do that so consistently.
That was the point of my other posts with the scientist who had to resign because initially they only included where he said his comments about 3 things that happens when he works with girls, and left out that he was joking and calling himself and the science community chauvinist, and said science needs more women.
Or when De Paul, Irvine, and other universities have provably shut down conservative debate, and faculty members are parts of the BLM group, or other political activities while they are teaching which would to me be a conflict of interests and risk teaching students lies. My brother had to take a course on race issue in order to become a teacher. He was told that lie about black driving and had to take a class on it to even be a teacher. This is how the liberals are taking control, and when one flips a millennial it needs to be part of the conversation while they realize, “holy hell, I’m being mislead on these issues that are being used to trigger me”.
They aren’t being won on traditional facts, so traditional facts won’t win them back.
Bob, following is a question you can use your brain for instead of pulling up a link. Please don’t bore me with – I haven’t studied that issue and dodge.
1. Polls have shown that the issues Americans are most concerned with are the economy and jobs. Do you think Hilliary’s proposal of increasing taxes $1.3 Trillion to fund her give a way programs is the answer or do you like Trump’s proposal to lower taxes on everyone and incentivize business to hire and create jobs? It does seem to me that getting several million off their butts and into the workforce will decrease entitlements which will help the budget and create more taxpayers to balance the budget.
Please cite where it says in the Constitution that the president determines the tax laws?
I am guessing you are OK with continued increases of the debt and deficits. That is what will happen if Donald Trump is elected and his plan, as it is currently written, will do. Even he said it will cost $2.6 Trillion, factoring in the economic growth that will follow.
So, increasing the debt is fine under a President Trump?
September 21, 2016 at 12:18 pm
Deplorables says:
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Bob, I believe that liberals on this site who voted for Obama, some twice, have no leg to stand on about the “signature legislation” that was passed in the middle of the night on a strictly partisan vote. That legacy is now in tatters. They then criticize that the Republicans had no plan when the plans offered were not even considered. It was my way or the highway with Obama or get in the back of the bus. Arrogance to the extreme.
My brother this, my dad that, no data, no reality. You aren’t credible on race issues Bob, because you are a racist. After lying over and over, and using your patented speculation as proof over video you speculated Tamir Rice was taught to disobey police, like other black people, as a justification for him being shot. You are also an abhorrent racist when it comes to Arabs and what you incorrectly declare Islam to be.
You whine about free speech on campus, because people protest other people engaging in hate speech. One of your prime examples is a person who routinely engages in racist hate speech. Your also support Trump, yet another racist. Get over your fantasy of being an intelligent moderate
Bob, there is no question that Millennials are a different breed. We have seen the worst side of them on this blog on just about every subject that has been presented. They have taken the art of the insult to the extreme. They don’t seem to have any practical side or common sense. Why is that?
You, Captain, UW and a few others seem to be the only sensible people who ever post in the comments sections of this site. I ask, kindly, that you no longer respond to Bob. He, in truth, is far more toxic to our consciousness’ than Agent ever could be. He is nearly entirely hatred. Please share with the others that continuing to acknowledge him will only further fuel his ego and hatred. You, nor I, nor anyone else, will ever convince him of anything outside of his own realm of belief. He is hatred and intolerance. Please let the argument(s) rest. Please rise above. He is not worth a single word of your wisdom. Part of me believes he is pure evil. I truly hope he is not but part of me, day by day, comes closer to the conclusion that he is.
Tolerance,
I haven’t even read a word from Bob’s posts in roughly 3 years, let alone respond to him. I don’t plan on changing that practice.
September 22, 2016 at 11:27 am
Deplorables says:
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Got any more laughs for us calling Confused, UW, Captain sensible people? By the way, he and Confused are trying to get along now and Bob is still trying to unravel what makes Millennials tick. Good luck on that!
September 22, 2016 at 12:46 pm
Bob says:
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UW is reasonable and is not toxic?
I am purely hate?
I don’t even know what to say to this. I have questioned my own phrasings along with Confused in these posts.
And I’m the only one here who has done that.
And I’m pure hate. I put links up here, and UW is calling me a 10,000 year old earth believer, while refusing to debate facts, and I’m pure hate.
Got it.
October 10, 2016 at 12:48 pm
actu says:
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I’ve seen UW ask you at least a dozen times how old the Earth is and you never respond. You’ve stated pretty clearly you think your religion should be the basis of the laws in society. Most people would assume you don’t believe in evolution based on that. You might, but why not just say it the first time? Oh, that’s right because you constantly deny science and that would be hugely relevant.
I’ve debated facts with you, as has Ron, as has Confused, and as has UW, and every time you freak out and abandon your bullshit facade of being polite and PC. Since you brought him up and facts up you just got made into basically a comic book a week or two ago by writing a bunch of bullshit math, he pointed it out as being off by thousands of percent, and you said the facts and math didn’t matter, only the concepts. You don’t like people like him and confused because they actually know real math and actually look into your numbers to expose them as fantasies.
You put forward the ideas of a clown, nobody takes your seriously, and we know you will be back to slinging insults any minute. You just defended a guy calling liberals en masses idiots. Fuck off Bob.
September 20, 2016 at 10:58 pm
DePolarBearables says:
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Liberals will defend other liberals’ hyuuuge mistakes to the bitter end.
In this case, that time will come on January 20, 2017.
Agent/Deplorables, “A rose by any other name…” And yes, that means I actually like you, you are sweet no matter which name you use. We disagree when it comes to left vs right, but that’s okay. I’d like to have you over some time. We’ll put away our political differences and connect. It will be good.
Agent/Deplorables, “A rose by any other name…” And yes, that means I actually like you, you are sweet no matter which name you choose to go by. We disagree when it comes to left vs right, but that’s okay. I’d like to have you over some time. We’ll put away our political differences and connect. It will be good.
I secretly hope so, albeit not a secret anymore. If Drumpf wins, that will be the end of this regime of the Republican Party and we can go back to having a real Republican Party that I might be able to entertain once again. Today’s Republican Party is so far gone, it’s borderline insane. No, strike that, it’s insane. Definition? Same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. No new ideas. The Party of no new ideas.
I secretly hope so, albeit not a secret anymore. If Drumpf wins, that will be the end of this regime of the Republican Party and we can go back to having a real Republican Party that I might be able to entertain again. Today’s Republican Party is so far gone, it’s borderline insane. No, strike that, it’s insane. Definition? Same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. No new ideas. The Party of no new ideas.
DePolar, There was a very good story on Townhall.com today, 9-21-16 titled – The Experiment: Capitalism vs Socialism. It high lighted the difference between West Germany and East Germany after WW2 and how the economies did. Under West Germany, Capitalism flourished, the economy came back and the people prospered. In East Germany under Socialism aka Communism, the economy languished and was a total failure like it is everywhere it has been tried. No wonder people were fleeing and risked their lives to scale the Berlin wall and enjoy freedom and opportunity.
I know the leftists on this site will not pull the story or read the truth, but I am still trying. The most recent failures of Socialism/Communism is in our hemisphere in Venezuela. The people are literally starving down there and revolution is imminent. Obama and Hillary would just love to create a total Socialist state with the US. They haven’t learned the important lesson that Socialism is an abject failure. Now liberals, you can downvote all you want.
You may not have realized it, but Brexit was the first victory in the 21st Millenium battle of Capitalism versus Socialism. The next victory will occur on November 8, if another Eurexit doesn’t abruptly occur before then. It seems like Venezuela’s revolution won’t occur until they organize better than they have to date. Germany and France seem like they are they are headed for significant political change toward more conservative government, mostly for greater security and liberties/ freedoms (speech).
DePolar, It seems that Angela Merkel is in a lot of trouble after bailing out Socialist Greece only to have them come back and ask for another one. Then, she had an open door policy to unvetted Syrians and other Muslims and that is not sitting well with the populace. I think the German people will send her packing next time just like America is going to send Progressive Democrats packing in November. Progressive Socialism is a total failure.
Bob, I believe you have been told at least a dozen times to not engage with the likes of Confused or UW. They just try to get you riled up and agitate all the time. They are worthless human beings.
I would love a 3% or 4% increase in my medical insurance. I have a small business (under 20 employees) in Florida. My renewal premium increased 29% last year and now 27% this year.
It is ludicrous to thing the average person is going to go out and shop medical services. Most do what the doctor tells them. Normal people don’t treat their health like a commodity.
The medical system needs to change and obamacare needs to go.
Same here Jack. Where’s the $2500 rate reduction promised by Obola hole?
Libtardism is a mental disorder.
yay, the “let’s be the first people to insult others” group is out in full effect. phew. we ALMOST went 3 posts without the president and a political affiliation being attacked. good job guys. keep up the insults. they’re doing great to foster intelligent discourse here. (end sarcasm) i bet the anonymous downvoters will follow this thread too.
We tried intelligent discourse before obamacareless was passed and realized you can’t fix liberal stupid. It’s simple MATH (Actuarially speaking) and 50% of America didn’t get it, and still don’t.
Besides we just beat the left to the usual racist,bigot,bla bla bla, you get it.
“liberal stupid” i see you keep making those insults even though nobody insulted you back. how about this….
(1) you insult someone or group of people because you want to beat them to the punch. after all, they were just going to insult you anyway. okay. i’ll give you that.
(2) if nobody returns your insult, how about you just stop insulting them? why continue to troll and insulting?
if someone wants to go insult-for-insult with you, game on. attack away. if you’re the only one who’s insulting again and again, and nobody is returning those volleys back to you, how about you swallow a mature pill and just stfu with all the insults?
Your comment shows you don’t understand differences in insulting.
It appears you took our argument as a learning base, I appreciate your attempt on that. I really do, but you’re applying it incorrectly.
When I told you that you were arguing with someone who hadn’t yet commented, (Agent) that was an individual.
In this case Jack is sick of a particular stupid type of liberal that did not look at this plan, and is at fault for obamacare.
In this, he is justified.
Is he on moral high ground? No. But neither are you when you try to shut him down on the basis you are.
You could just shift the debate to facts.
my apologies bob. apparently i never got the memo outlining which insults are acceptable here and which aren’t. do you have any cheat sheet i can reference for the future so you don’t get on my case for calling someone out for insulting groups of people twice when the attacked group hadn’t insulted the poster even once yet?
maybe that last reply was too snarky. if so, i sincerely apologize. here. let’s try this reply instead:
you said I need to shift the debate to the facts.
exactly how would you do that in response to Jack’s post about “Obola hole” and that “Libtardism is a mental disorder”
Something like “Hey Jack – Libtardism is not in the DSM-V book, so the facts prove you’re wrong” or “Jack – calling him Obola hole is wrong, his name is Obama”?
You know he didn’t REALLY mean those were factual statements, right? So how would you reply to those nasty insulting statements to try and get the conversation back to on-topic facts? I am really curious how you’d handle the “back to facts” reply, which is why i sincerely apologized for my last snarky reply. what say you?
Confused:
I was actually trying to be nice in my last comment which is why I said I noted that you are trying to stop insults. I find that a good goal to attain.
However, to stop all insults of ideas would stop all forms of debate which I don’t like.
Ridiculing ideas I find to be fine. Ridiculing individuals I do not.
Attributing blame I find to be fine, so long as one doesn’t do it in cliche lines. If you blame someone for something, stating it as a matter of fact does frustrate me. Jack edged that line like a lot of liberals here.
However, to go after him for being upset with these liberals is too far. It makes more sense to demand his numbers then to shut him down and to tell him to stop insulting.
I want debate and banter.
I would have preferred to watch you two duke it out with numbers.
I only really go to place like this to see what the left has to say, and the reactions of the right to see where they lack facts.
If both sides don’t go into that I can’t learn.
I also go here to test what I have learned in terms of argument strength. Again, I can’t do that if people focus on insults here.
Insults will always happen. If his line was just about an insult and not insulting a particular plan I believe he would not be edging the line and would have instead crossed it.
bob, see my reply to jack below. am i doing better or worse now? at least i’m trying, ya?
I hope I’m doing better too, I have been trying to focus on it a lot lately as I find I am also guilty of this. And Yes. That is superb. I will want to read his reply.
Also:
“Your comment shows you don’t understand differences in insulting.”
My starting by saying this is a bad habit I need to drop that does not encourage debate either. Instead, I should inquire and engage. This behavior stops engagement.
I truly want for us to have really engaging debates here Confused. I’ll try to do better myself as well. I am sorry for starting with that accusatory tone.
Jack K, Thank you Obamacareless.
Deplorables, I love that name.
Thanks. Yes, after Hilliary said it, I thought I would emphasize my opposition.
Are liberals that ignorant that they thought premiums were going to go down? Wait…nevermind.
Jack – I know what the politicians said, but you’re not arguing what they told us – you’re arguing what liberals did or didn’t believe.
Please provide the source data to support your insult that ignorant libtards thought premiums would go down.
If citing voting numbers, please make sure you include non-elected officials as there are more liberal citizens in the country than there are liberals in our government.
(How’d I do this time, bob??)
I am actually curious as to what groups thought what though it may be impossible to find out.
I have seen many who believe one of the following things:
1. Premium growth has slowed and that is due to the ACA
2. Premium growth has slowed and that is due to conditions that have occurred world wide rather than the ACA.
3. Premium growth has increased, in line with coverage increases.
4. Premium growth has slowed, but deductibles and co pays have increased.
The question is, which are we looking at?
I believe that the debate is really:
1. Has premium growth slowed.
2. Is this in line with co pays and deductibles. If so, is this beneficial?
3. If this is due to economic conditions, should we ensure we pass something quickly for when these conditions change?
4. Will the ACA have a substantial affect here? (Evidence from CBO studies is what I usually source quote for this, but this is shaky science even I admit)
5. What options do we have?
Jack, if you focus on these areas you can win over liberals. If you don’t, you can’t.
I have been focusing on presenting the alternate options offered by the right.
If we don’t do that the millennials just get ticked off and call the republicans the party of no.
Perhaps if you go into these areas Confused might actually present his knowledge and maybe it will actually give some interesting information.
I left out an obvious 5 for people I have seen:
5. People who have seen premium growth slow and don’t believe it is the economic conditions, do believe it has slowed when compared to the increase in policies where increases have happened, and do believe that is due to the ACA.
You are likely talking about this group of people.
In my experience this is generally the millennials who believe this, though I don’t often see a lot of data on studies. I have seen a few liberal sources on it that draw conclusions but often without a lot of data.
If a liberal has a source on this, and has found their own data compiling Gov information, or other aspects they find to be relevant I want to encourage them to present it.
Bob, if you haven’t seen enough data over the course of 6 years by now, you are in the category of Rip Van Winkle and have been asleep all this time. Obamacare is a nightmare passed on a pack of lies and has done great harm to this country. Sorry you have not been able to gather the facts on this.
I have seen the information, ergo why I said above:
“I have seen a few liberal sources on it that draw conclusions but often without a lot of data.”
This is my way of saying I have seen only a few liberal sources that take all of the above into consideration, and most of them try to say number 5 but they are not at all correct.
If someone has studies that have any validity regarding item 5, I have not seen them. And if they do I want to debate them.
This does not mean they don’t exist. I am open to the possibility of being wrong and I want to defeat these studies if they are out there.
I suspect we are on the same side based on your last comment Deplorables. You don’t need to convince me of the issues with Obamacare. If I were however happy with it, your comment above wouldn’t change my mind. Don’t you want to have the ability to possibly change these guys’s minds?
Let me do my thing and try to appeal to Millennials. You might not realize this but there is a cultural difference in millennials.
Bob, I direct you to Jack Kanaugh’s first post on this blog and then tell us how premium increases have slowed. This is going on all around the country and despite the increases, exchanges have been failing at an alarming rate because of the flawed concept of Obamacare. Surely, you have noticed.
DeploreAgent, let’s get some full context here:
“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? [Laughter/applause]. The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people, now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets offensive, hateful, mean-spirited rhetoric. Now some of those folks, they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.
“But the other basket, the other basket, and I know because I see friends from all over America here. I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas, as well as you know New York and California. But that other basket of people who are people who feel that government has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they are just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”
Now, please walk away from your 3 second sound-bite and speak to the 30 second sound-bite, which allows everyone to see the truth behind what she was trying to say.
DeploreAgent, we need some full context here:
“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? [Laughter/applause]. The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people, now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets offensive, hateful, mean-spirited rhetoric. Now some of those folks, they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.
“But the other basket, the other basket, and I know because I see friends from all over America here. I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas, as well as you know New York and California. But that other basket of people who are people who feel that government has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they are just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.”
Now, please walk away from your 3 second sound-bite and speak to the 30 second sound-bite, which allows everyone to see the truth behind what she was trying to say.
Liberals have hope that the jackholes running these companies would not be taking 6 figure raises each year!!!, and passing it on in the guise of health care increases. Secondly some how someone with the balls and a brain needs to put through tort reform, before Malpractice Insurance is impossible to underwrite!
Watch late night TV? Jury’s haven’t a clue, and are not the peers of the medical professional they are judging, so the ambulance chasers get rich, the insurance industry raises the cost for malpractice insurances, and we all pay the price which all boils down to the Lawyer collecting 1/3 plus expenses to bring a lawsuit against a hospital or doctor due to the lack of testing done by a megadollar drug company, who donated millions to the Obama Establishment.
Bob, you will never change any liberal minds with studies showing how bad Obamacare has been and is. They don’t believe those studies anyway. What part of bankruptcy of the country do you not understand? I will give Obama some credit. He has succeeded wildly in creating an entitlement society where a large part of the population has their hand out for any government give away they can get their hands on. We are taking in $2.6 Trillion in taxes and spending $3.8 Trillion. How about those figures? Lowest labor participation rate in 40 years. How about those apples? Will increasing taxes to working people stimulate the economy and create jobs?
Deplorables – please cite your source proving liberals don’t believe that Obamacare has been bad. Was there actually a study, or are you just lumping an entire group of people together without any evidence?
As far as I remember, you have already been told by Ron & Rosenblatt & I that we think Obamacare is a failure, and you’ve labeled us liberals many many times.
That might be true, I may have no impact but I want to try and not get discouraged and mouthy.
You don’t have to convince me on the LPR either, or the spending.
Most of the time they default back to Bush W and Reagan on this one. I’m not saying that’s right, it also frustrates me.
You have to realize that Ron legitimately believe the ACA was not Obama’s. Or he made that argument once, and that is not uncommon in my age group. They think republicans had no options.
Instead I am taking the way liberal politicians fight and am throwing it in their face.
If they want to call us sexist while intentionally sabotaging and using women’s rights (Lilly Ledbetter act) I intend to point out republicans supported it with a few amendments, and then show that no one with a good moral conscience could do that so consistently.
That was the point of my other posts with the scientist who had to resign because initially they only included where he said his comments about 3 things that happens when he works with girls, and left out that he was joking and calling himself and the science community chauvinist, and said science needs more women.
Or when De Paul, Irvine, and other universities have provably shut down conservative debate, and faculty members are parts of the BLM group, or other political activities while they are teaching which would to me be a conflict of interests and risk teaching students lies. My brother had to take a course on race issue in order to become a teacher. He was told that lie about black driving and had to take a class on it to even be a teacher. This is how the liberals are taking control, and when one flips a millennial it needs to be part of the conversation while they realize, “holy hell, I’m being mislead on these issues that are being used to trigger me”.
They aren’t being won on traditional facts, so traditional facts won’t win them back.
Bob, following is a question you can use your brain for instead of pulling up a link. Please don’t bore me with – I haven’t studied that issue and dodge.
1. Polls have shown that the issues Americans are most concerned with are the economy and jobs. Do you think Hilliary’s proposal of increasing taxes $1.3 Trillion to fund her give a way programs is the answer or do you like Trump’s proposal to lower taxes on everyone and incentivize business to hire and create jobs? It does seem to me that getting several million off their butts and into the workforce will decrease entitlements which will help the budget and create more taxpayers to balance the budget.
Deplorables,
Please cite where it says in the Constitution that the president determines the tax laws?
I am guessing you are OK with continued increases of the debt and deficits. That is what will happen if Donald Trump is elected and his plan, as it is currently written, will do. Even he said it will cost $2.6 Trillion, factoring in the economic growth that will follow.
So, increasing the debt is fine under a President Trump?
Bob, I believe that liberals on this site who voted for Obama, some twice, have no leg to stand on about the “signature legislation” that was passed in the middle of the night on a strictly partisan vote. That legacy is now in tatters. They then criticize that the Republicans had no plan when the plans offered were not even considered. It was my way or the highway with Obama or get in the back of the bus. Arrogance to the extreme.
Hi Agent!
My brother this, my dad that, no data, no reality. You aren’t credible on race issues Bob, because you are a racist. After lying over and over, and using your patented speculation as proof over video you speculated Tamir Rice was taught to disobey police, like other black people, as a justification for him being shot. You are also an abhorrent racist when it comes to Arabs and what you incorrectly declare Islam to be.
You whine about free speech on campus, because people protest other people engaging in hate speech. One of your prime examples is a person who routinely engages in racist hate speech. Your also support Trump, yet another racist. Get over your fantasy of being an intelligent moderate
Bob, there is no question that Millennials are a different breed. We have seen the worst side of them on this blog on just about every subject that has been presented. They have taken the art of the insult to the extreme. They don’t seem to have any practical side or common sense. Why is that?
Hi Agent!
Confused,
You, Captain, UW and a few others seem to be the only sensible people who ever post in the comments sections of this site. I ask, kindly, that you no longer respond to Bob. He, in truth, is far more toxic to our consciousness’ than Agent ever could be. He is nearly entirely hatred. Please share with the others that continuing to acknowledge him will only further fuel his ego and hatred. You, nor I, nor anyone else, will ever convince him of anything outside of his own realm of belief. He is hatred and intolerance. Please let the argument(s) rest. Please rise above. He is not worth a single word of your wisdom. Part of me believes he is pure evil. I truly hope he is not but part of me, day by day, comes closer to the conclusion that he is.
-a friend
roger that, tolerance
Tolerance,
I haven’t even read a word from Bob’s posts in roughly 3 years, let alone respond to him. I don’t plan on changing that practice.
Got any more laughs for us calling Confused, UW, Captain sensible people? By the way, he and Confused are trying to get along now and Bob is still trying to unravel what makes Millennials tick. Good luck on that!
UW is reasonable and is not toxic?
I am purely hate?
I don’t even know what to say to this. I have questioned my own phrasings along with Confused in these posts.
And I’m the only one here who has done that.
And I’m pure hate. I put links up here, and UW is calling me a 10,000 year old earth believer, while refusing to debate facts, and I’m pure hate.
Got it.
I’ve seen UW ask you at least a dozen times how old the Earth is and you never respond. You’ve stated pretty clearly you think your religion should be the basis of the laws in society. Most people would assume you don’t believe in evolution based on that. You might, but why not just say it the first time? Oh, that’s right because you constantly deny science and that would be hugely relevant.
I’ve debated facts with you, as has Ron, as has Confused, and as has UW, and every time you freak out and abandon your bullshit facade of being polite and PC. Since you brought him up and facts up you just got made into basically a comic book a week or two ago by writing a bunch of bullshit math, he pointed it out as being off by thousands of percent, and you said the facts and math didn’t matter, only the concepts. You don’t like people like him and confused because they actually know real math and actually look into your numbers to expose them as fantasies.
You put forward the ideas of a clown, nobody takes your seriously, and we know you will be back to slinging insults any minute. You just defended a guy calling liberals en masses idiots. Fuck off Bob.
Liberals will defend other liberals’ hyuuuge mistakes to the bitter end.
In this case, that time will come on January 20, 2017.
Love that moniker name almost as much as mine.
Hi Agent!
Agent/Deplorables, “A rose by any other name…” And yes, that means I actually like you, you are sweet no matter which name you use. We disagree when it comes to left vs right, but that’s okay. I’d like to have you over some time. We’ll put away our political differences and connect. It will be good.
Moniker Lewinsky?
Agent/Deplorables, “A rose by any other name…” And yes, that means I actually like you, you are sweet no matter which name you choose to go by. We disagree when it comes to left vs right, but that’s okay. I’d like to have you over some time. We’ll put away our political differences and connect. It will be good.
I secretly hope so, albeit not a secret anymore. If Drumpf wins, that will be the end of this regime of the Republican Party and we can go back to having a real Republican Party that I might be able to entertain once again. Today’s Republican Party is so far gone, it’s borderline insane. No, strike that, it’s insane. Definition? Same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. No new ideas. The Party of no new ideas.
I secretly hope so, albeit not a secret anymore. If Drumpf wins, that will be the end of this regime of the Republican Party and we can go back to having a real Republican Party that I might be able to entertain again. Today’s Republican Party is so far gone, it’s borderline insane. No, strike that, it’s insane. Definition? Same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. No new ideas. The Party of no new ideas.
DePolar, There was a very good story on Townhall.com today, 9-21-16 titled – The Experiment: Capitalism vs Socialism. It high lighted the difference between West Germany and East Germany after WW2 and how the economies did. Under West Germany, Capitalism flourished, the economy came back and the people prospered. In East Germany under Socialism aka Communism, the economy languished and was a total failure like it is everywhere it has been tried. No wonder people were fleeing and risked their lives to scale the Berlin wall and enjoy freedom and opportunity.
I know the leftists on this site will not pull the story or read the truth, but I am still trying. The most recent failures of Socialism/Communism is in our hemisphere in Venezuela. The people are literally starving down there and revolution is imminent. Obama and Hillary would just love to create a total Socialist state with the US. They haven’t learned the important lesson that Socialism is an abject failure. Now liberals, you can downvote all you want.
You may not have realized it, but Brexit was the first victory in the 21st Millenium battle of Capitalism versus Socialism. The next victory will occur on November 8, if another Eurexit doesn’t abruptly occur before then. It seems like Venezuela’s revolution won’t occur until they organize better than they have to date. Germany and France seem like they are they are headed for significant political change toward more conservative government, mostly for greater security and liberties/ freedoms (speech).
DePolar, It seems that Angela Merkel is in a lot of trouble after bailing out Socialist Greece only to have them come back and ask for another one. Then, she had an open door policy to unvetted Syrians and other Muslims and that is not sitting well with the populace. I think the German people will send her packing next time just like America is going to send Progressive Democrats packing in November. Progressive Socialism is a total failure.
Hi Agent!
Deplorables, communism and socialism are not the same thing please learn the minimum basics before lecturing us about a rant you read on a hate site.
Bob, I believe you have been told at least a dozen times to not engage with the likes of Confused or UW. They just try to get you riled up and agitate all the time. They are worthless human beings.
Are you his master, or why do you get to tell him what to do? Is telling people what to do how you got banned from the site, or was that your racism?