To Harrisburg Agent, why would you incur the work and expense to move your book from a financially stable company because of a brand change? Makes no sense to me.
Nationwide has owned Allied for years and has incorporated many leaders from Allied into Nationwide, making it an overall better company. The same can be said for incorporating Harleysville. Until now, Independant Agents haven’t benefitted from the Nationwide brand recognition. This move makes sense and it reduces the costs of supporting multiple brands which makes sense for the members.
I get you guys are in it for yourselves and not your policyholders (drives me nuts when you collectively call me a “client” when I’m actually a “customer,” and you don’t work for me but rather the insurance companies), but as someone who has continuously had Harleysville automotive insurance since I received my learner’s permit in 1972, I am following my agent’s suggestion and jumping ship, although not for the reasons she’s selling me on a new product. She obviously wants the better commission on a new policy; me, I choose not to be involved with a huge multinational that will do everything it can within-and-outside the law to leave me hanging high-and-dry should anything happen requiring a payout.
I’m going with a smaller local outfit, the kind Harleysville used to be…I will save a few dollars, but nowhere near enough to cover the hassle. I’m switching because I can drive to the company headquarters in under a half-hour and be really, really annoying should they try anything stupid.
Harleysville served me well and honorably for decades, taking care of the precious few problems I’ve had over the years honestly and quickly. The moment they were bought outright, I knew this day was coming – no way a faceless corporation the size of Nationwide is going to give two frigs about whether I’m a customer or not, they have plenty more. They can deny or delay my future claims and replace me with their “your side” advertisements.
Yeah, it does matter…just not in the way CBDJH thinks it does. Changing to Nationwide will remind folks around here the company they used to trust is now just another financial products outfit. I’m guessing I’m not the only long-term customer jumping ship…
Can’t be done, at least in most states. There has to be a licensed surplus line broker between the retail producer and a non-admitted carrier, at least in the 4 northeast states my firm works in.
How about agents bypassing getting quotes from former Scottsdale to Nationwide? I certainly don’t want to have anything to do with them. I wonder what the wholesale brokers think of this>
Hey TX Agent, have you been approached by Nationwide Agents wanting to acquire Independents? I have been approached 4 or 5 times in the past year or two wanting to discuss unique business opportunities. They keep coming out of the woodwork from all parts of the state. I blow them off, but it is getting annoying. I am not sure what they are up to, but I hardly think a captive is a good fit for Independents businesswise and the appointment process with our markets might not work.
They’re trying to grow their business by having more market choices and market clout. I’d think a big-shot agency owner like you could have figured that out.
Nice insult Libby. How can a CSR like you presume to know what is in the mind of a Captive Agent? Most of my Standards would get out of the agency if they knew a Captive was taking over operations. Those people don’t operate the way Independents do. Farmers and Allstate agencies beg for appointments all the time and consistently get rejected.
LOL! I’ll tell you how, Agent. I was Area Manager for a little company called Brooke that specialized in taking captives into the IA world via franchise. It was my job to help these captives succeed. Of course nobody knew that it was all a ponzi scheme and Brooke scammed them of their dreams. But I worked with quite a few in many states. Only a handful actually made it.
September 9, 2014 at 12:29 pm
Agent says:
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So you worked for a Ponzi scheme. Smart choice Libby. I have been approached so many times to join these co-op programs I have lost count. It is a good thing I took none of them seriously. The lure is to acquire more markets and have more clout with the Standards and MGA’s. A lot of agents gave up their independence and were badly hurt in these schemes.
September 9, 2014 at 1:14 pm
Libby says:
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“The lure is to acquire more markets and have more clout with the Standards and MGA’s.” Is that just another way of saying “They’re trying to grow their business by having more market choices and market clout.” I think I hear an echo in here.
September 9, 2014 at 2:20 pm
Agent says:
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Except Libby, it was all a false promise as we have seen from many of these big co-op deals/groupings of agents. They sell a line and it doesn’t work any more than Healthcare.gov being a legitimate health website. Now, we learn that they have been hacked. Why am I not surprised?
How do they feel about your fireworks shop out back?
September 3, 2014 at 3:07 pm
Libby says:
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I think it just means everything status quo, except instead of the policy saying Scottsdale or Harleysville, it will be Nationwide. They did the same thing when they bought the St. Paul/MetLife book.
Just mimicking Liberty Mutual who got rid of Peerless, Montgomery, Ohio Casualty, Indiana, Golden Eagle, America First and is all under Liberty Mutual Holdings Corp. a/k/a Liberty Mutual.
You are right Paul. Liberty bought, absorbed all those companies and converted over to Liberty Mutual Holdings. The only one left standing on its own here is Safeco which they designated as their Personal Lines agency company. America First has basically dissolved and they were supposed to be the Commercial Lines carrier for us. I think the head honchos in Boston basically don’t know what they are doing. They are still writing Personal Lines direct and competing with their wholly owned Safeco. It is kind of weird.
Paul, I just placed a sizable FRO with Liberty Mutual. Lo and behold, it came in under American States paper which had been acquired by Safeco who was acquired by Liberty Mutual. It is amazing what goes on behind the scenes and how they place their business. Before Safeco’s acquisition, they also wrote Business Insurance and had their own FRO dept and the powers that be got rid of that, moved Commercial to America First who now has gone away. Kind of makes you dizzy thinking about it.
Close but not quite. St. Paul Companies sold its personal lines book (St. Paul/Economy, possibly USF&G was in there) to MetLife after the USF&G merger as it exited the personal lines business. After that, Travelers brought its own personal lines book into the merger. There was no overlap of the personal lines books between St. Paul and Travelers.
This will run the same as Farmers. Nationwide agents will have to go through an inhouse wholesaler to get to Scottsdale and other surplus lines carriers. Many times the inhouse wholesaler will just pass through the submission to an outside wholesaler, i.e. Farmers’ Kraft Lake wholesale arm just sends DIC submission to Brown & Riding, an independent wholesaler, but it appears to the Farmers agent that Kraft Lake did the work. Only when the inhouse wholesaler cannot get to a market in any way can the Farmers agent go directly to an outside wholesaler. Trust me about this, Nationwide will operate in the same fashion.
CL PM is correct, Nationwide exclusive agents have always had access to Scottsdale via Nationwide’s Insurance Intermediaries, a surplus lines licensed wholesaler, and independent agents have had access to Scottsdale via Nationwide’s Allied General Agency, a surplus lines wholesaler as well. TX Agent, you should not read into this, as Scottsdale will not bypass the MGA/Wholesaler market as they are dedicated to this model, and SueMe Too is correct, that you have to be a licensed surplus lines wholesaler to access surplus lines paper therefore, it would not be legally possible. Finally, Libby is incorrect, the policy will still say Scottsdale Insurance Company, Western Heritage Insurance Company, etc. as this is the paper that the rates, rules and forms are filed on, so that will not change. The purpose of the change is to leverage the Nationwide name, much like Liberty Mutual did in Paul’s comments. Hopefully this helps with the concerns and speculation for the change.
Forms (& rates/rules if necessary) will be submitted to the various DOIs with the new name and logo. Once they have been approved, the company will start converting policies to the new forms.
Not quite Nationwide Assoc, your comment is simply not true. This would not be the strategy as Nationwide will still need to operate using several different papers to address the various needs of its customers. That cannot be done if they all show the same company name and same paper, the states would not allow that.
Many large carriers do this by setting up separate companies under their umbrella (no pun intended), but the logo on the paper is still their own (the umbrella.) For instance Travelers has Travelers Property Casualty, Automobile Insurance Company of Harford, Charter Oak, Phoenix, etc. but all of them are issued with the Travelers logo at the top. The insured rarely knows the actual “carrier” or paper they are written with, only that it’s Travelers.
Actually Libby, the writing company is identified on the policy even if there is a Travelers logo at the top. I have a large commercial account that has that Travelers logo, but it clearly states St Paul on the dec page.
September 5, 2014 at 11:00 am
Libby says:
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What in my post contradicts what you said? Of course the carrier’s name is on the dec, but the insured doesn’t read that. All they see is Travelers.
September 9, 2014 at 9:45 am
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Libby, if your insured’s are too dumb to only look at a logo, something is wrong with that picture. I often have to explain that Travelers & St Paul are the same company and it is just written through St Paul.
September 9, 2014 at 10:53 am
Libby says:
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Insureds aren’t dumb, they’re just not insurance agents. I don’t NEED to tell them it’s Charter Oak Insurance Company instead of Travelers. It’s Travelers. They don’t need to know the details except for the rating. You’re a dope.
September 4, 2014 at 1:24 pm
Regulator says:
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Yes, the states do allow it and have already been contacted by Nationwide regarding the coming changes.
My question is will Nationwide’s captive agents be continuing to write single-family detached owner-occupied dwellings on a condo unit owner’s form HO6? I come across this practice routinely.
Although Scottsdale does have access to admitted paper that needs forms and rates filings ie National Casualty, Scottsdale Insurance Company paper is true E&S and as such does not have to file rate or form.
Very true, the bigger question is, will they re-file all their forms, etc. and change the name on the paper, keep it the same and branded as Nationwide much like other large carriers like Travelers, Liberty Mutual and Progressive do with their subsidiaries i.e. Nationwide, underwritten by Scottsdale Insurance Company, or leave them as is? Interesting times for this iconic E&S brand. I worked with Scottsdale as a wholesaler in the past, and I sold my agency and now I am now retired, but I am interested what their current wholesalers think about the change, especially those that work with Scottsdale Insurance Company, do they see it as a positive or a negative, and why?
This is a smart move. Sure it will save money, but more importantly it will elevate the Nationwide brand and certainly provide more lift than the prior independent brands delivered.
Has anyone given thought to the new commission structure? Captives
usually receive far less than their independent counterparts. I’m thinking the independent agents’ commission is going to change and not for the better.
What will be more interesting is what happens to the very large NY construction book that Harleysville holds….once Nationwide realizes what it has there I think there will be a real shakeup in the East.
Harleysville overexposed themselves to the draconian NY construction laws by appointing every mom and pop agency, many of which knew nothing about NY construction. No carrier in the history of NY insurance has taken such a large market position and made money, I expect they will pay out at least 1.50 for every 1 taken in…just like the old CNA CAM program. First though, will come profit sharing and commission cuts, which I am sure are on the horizon.
Cue all indepedent agents in moving their book in 3…2….
To Harrisburg Agent, why would you incur the work and expense to move your book from a financially stable company because of a brand change? Makes no sense to me.
Nationwide has owned Allied for years and has incorporated many leaders from Allied into Nationwide, making it an overall better company. The same can be said for incorporating Harleysville. Until now, Independant Agents haven’t benefitted from the Nationwide brand recognition. This move makes sense and it reduces the costs of supporting multiple brands which makes sense for the members.
Hey CBDJH, perhaps you have not read any stories recently about how Nationwide treats their agents. They are definitely not on their side.
I get you guys are in it for yourselves and not your policyholders (drives me nuts when you collectively call me a “client” when I’m actually a “customer,” and you don’t work for me but rather the insurance companies), but as someone who has continuously had Harleysville automotive insurance since I received my learner’s permit in 1972, I am following my agent’s suggestion and jumping ship, although not for the reasons she’s selling me on a new product. She obviously wants the better commission on a new policy; me, I choose not to be involved with a huge multinational that will do everything it can within-and-outside the law to leave me hanging high-and-dry should anything happen requiring a payout.
I’m going with a smaller local outfit, the kind Harleysville used to be…I will save a few dollars, but nowhere near enough to cover the hassle. I’m switching because I can drive to the company headquarters in under a half-hour and be really, really annoying should they try anything stupid.
Harleysville served me well and honorably for decades, taking care of the precious few problems I’ve had over the years honestly and quickly. The moment they were bought outright, I knew this day was coming – no way a faceless corporation the size of Nationwide is going to give two frigs about whether I’m a customer or not, they have plenty more. They can deny or delay my future claims and replace me with their “your side” advertisements.
Yeah, it does matter…just not in the way CBDJH thinks it does. Changing to Nationwide will remind folks around here the company they used to trust is now just another financial products outfit. I’m guessing I’m not the only long-term customer jumping ship…
You sound like a problem customer to me. By the way, agents don’t work for companies. It is strictly contractual to represent them.
Should we read into this that Nationwide direct writers will have access to Scottsdale (by passing the MGA/Wholesale market)?
I believe that Nationwide exclusive agents have always had access to Scottsdale through Nationwide’s Insurance Intermediaries subsidiary.
Can’t be done, at least in most states. There has to be a licensed surplus line broker between the retail producer and a non-admitted carrier, at least in the 4 northeast states my firm works in.
It’s easy enough to get a surplus lines license.
How about agents bypassing getting quotes from former Scottsdale to Nationwide? I certainly don’t want to have anything to do with them. I wonder what the wholesale brokers think of this>
They don’t write the same kind of business or have the same delivery system.
Hey TX Agent, have you been approached by Nationwide Agents wanting to acquire Independents? I have been approached 4 or 5 times in the past year or two wanting to discuss unique business opportunities. They keep coming out of the woodwork from all parts of the state. I blow them off, but it is getting annoying. I am not sure what they are up to, but I hardly think a captive is a good fit for Independents businesswise and the appointment process with our markets might not work.
They’re trying to grow their business by having more market choices and market clout. I’d think a big-shot agency owner like you could have figured that out.
Nice insult Libby. How can a CSR like you presume to know what is in the mind of a Captive Agent? Most of my Standards would get out of the agency if they knew a Captive was taking over operations. Those people don’t operate the way Independents do. Farmers and Allstate agencies beg for appointments all the time and consistently get rejected.
LOL! I’ll tell you how, Agent. I was Area Manager for a little company called Brooke that specialized in taking captives into the IA world via franchise. It was my job to help these captives succeed. Of course nobody knew that it was all a ponzi scheme and Brooke scammed them of their dreams. But I worked with quite a few in many states. Only a handful actually made it.
So you worked for a Ponzi scheme. Smart choice Libby. I have been approached so many times to join these co-op programs I have lost count. It is a good thing I took none of them seriously. The lure is to acquire more markets and have more clout with the Standards and MGA’s. A lot of agents gave up their independence and were badly hurt in these schemes.
“The lure is to acquire more markets and have more clout with the Standards and MGA’s.” Is that just another way of saying “They’re trying to grow their business by having more market choices and market clout.” I think I hear an echo in here.
Except Libby, it was all a false promise as we have seen from many of these big co-op deals/groupings of agents. They sell a line and it doesn’t work any more than Healthcare.gov being a legitimate health website. Now, we learn that they have been hacked. Why am I not surprised?
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I think it just means everything status quo, except instead of the policy saying Scottsdale or Harleysville, it will be Nationwide. They did the same thing when they bought the St. Paul/MetLife book.
St Paul is part of Travelers dufus.
Just mimicking Liberty Mutual who got rid of Peerless, Montgomery, Ohio Casualty, Indiana, Golden Eagle, America First and is all under Liberty Mutual Holdings Corp. a/k/a Liberty Mutual.
You are right Paul. Liberty bought, absorbed all those companies and converted over to Liberty Mutual Holdings. The only one left standing on its own here is Safeco which they designated as their Personal Lines agency company. America First has basically dissolved and they were supposed to be the Commercial Lines carrier for us. I think the head honchos in Boston basically don’t know what they are doing. They are still writing Personal Lines direct and competing with their wholly owned Safeco. It is kind of weird.
Paul, I just placed a sizable FRO with Liberty Mutual. Lo and behold, it came in under American States paper which had been acquired by Safeco who was acquired by Liberty Mutual. It is amazing what goes on behind the scenes and how they place their business. Before Safeco’s acquisition, they also wrote Business Insurance and had their own FRO dept and the powers that be got rid of that, moved Commercial to America First who now has gone away. Kind of makes you dizzy thinking about it.
Uhh, Libby? It was Travelers who bought the St. Paul Book and dumped the USF&G/St Paul personal lines book on Metlife.
Metlife still owns it.
OK. My bad.
Close but not quite. St. Paul Companies sold its personal lines book (St. Paul/Economy, possibly USF&G was in there) to MetLife after the USF&G merger as it exited the personal lines business. After that, Travelers brought its own personal lines book into the merger. There was no overlap of the personal lines books between St. Paul and Travelers.
This will run the same as Farmers. Nationwide agents will have to go through an inhouse wholesaler to get to Scottsdale and other surplus lines carriers. Many times the inhouse wholesaler will just pass through the submission to an outside wholesaler, i.e. Farmers’ Kraft Lake wholesale arm just sends DIC submission to Brown & Riding, an independent wholesaler, but it appears to the Farmers agent that Kraft Lake did the work. Only when the inhouse wholesaler cannot get to a market in any way can the Farmers agent go directly to an outside wholesaler. Trust me about this, Nationwide will operate in the same fashion.
CL PM is correct, Nationwide exclusive agents have always had access to Scottsdale via Nationwide’s Insurance Intermediaries, a surplus lines licensed wholesaler, and independent agents have had access to Scottsdale via Nationwide’s Allied General Agency, a surplus lines wholesaler as well. TX Agent, you should not read into this, as Scottsdale will not bypass the MGA/Wholesaler market as they are dedicated to this model, and SueMe Too is correct, that you have to be a licensed surplus lines wholesaler to access surplus lines paper therefore, it would not be legally possible. Finally, Libby is incorrect, the policy will still say Scottsdale Insurance Company, Western Heritage Insurance Company, etc. as this is the paper that the rates, rules and forms are filed on, so that will not change. The purpose of the change is to leverage the Nationwide name, much like Liberty Mutual did in Paul’s comments. Hopefully this helps with the concerns and speculation for the change.
Forms (& rates/rules if necessary) will be submitted to the various DOIs with the new name and logo. Once they have been approved, the company will start converting policies to the new forms.
Not quite Nationwide Assoc, your comment is simply not true. This would not be the strategy as Nationwide will still need to operate using several different papers to address the various needs of its customers. That cannot be done if they all show the same company name and same paper, the states would not allow that.
Many large carriers do this by setting up separate companies under their umbrella (no pun intended), but the logo on the paper is still their own (the umbrella.) For instance Travelers has Travelers Property Casualty, Automobile Insurance Company of Harford, Charter Oak, Phoenix, etc. but all of them are issued with the Travelers logo at the top. The insured rarely knows the actual “carrier” or paper they are written with, only that it’s Travelers.
Actually Libby, the writing company is identified on the policy even if there is a Travelers logo at the top. I have a large commercial account that has that Travelers logo, but it clearly states St Paul on the dec page.
What in my post contradicts what you said? Of course the carrier’s name is on the dec, but the insured doesn’t read that. All they see is Travelers.
Libby, if your insured’s are too dumb to only look at a logo, something is wrong with that picture. I often have to explain that Travelers & St Paul are the same company and it is just written through St Paul.
Insureds aren’t dumb, they’re just not insurance agents. I don’t NEED to tell them it’s Charter Oak Insurance Company instead of Travelers. It’s Travelers. They don’t need to know the details except for the rating. You’re a dope.
Yes, the states do allow it and have already been contacted by Nationwide regarding the coming changes.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the states are ok with the name change. Yes, the companies have to file their new forms, but that’s just a formality.
My question is will Nationwide’s captive agents be continuing to write single-family detached owner-occupied dwellings on a condo unit owner’s form HO6? I come across this practice routinely.
Although Scottsdale does have access to admitted paper that needs forms and rates filings ie National Casualty, Scottsdale Insurance Company paper is true E&S and as such does not have to file rate or form.
Very true, the bigger question is, will they re-file all their forms, etc. and change the name on the paper, keep it the same and branded as Nationwide much like other large carriers like Travelers, Liberty Mutual and Progressive do with their subsidiaries i.e. Nationwide, underwritten by Scottsdale Insurance Company, or leave them as is? Interesting times for this iconic E&S brand. I worked with Scottsdale as a wholesaler in the past, and I sold my agency and now I am now retired, but I am interested what their current wholesalers think about the change, especially those that work with Scottsdale Insurance Company, do they see it as a positive or a negative, and why?
This is a smart move. Sure it will save money, but more importantly it will elevate the Nationwide brand and certainly provide more lift than the prior independent brands delivered.
Makes sense for Harleysville, but Scottsdale has a strong name in E&S. Can’t see the value of such a move. My opinions, yours may differ.
Has anyone given thought to the new commission structure? Captives
usually receive far less than their independent counterparts. I’m thinking the independent agents’ commission is going to change and not for the better.
What will be more interesting is what happens to the very large NY construction book that Harleysville holds….once Nationwide realizes what it has there I think there will be a real shakeup in the East.
Harleysville overexposed themselves to the draconian NY construction laws by appointing every mom and pop agency, many of which knew nothing about NY construction. No carrier in the history of NY insurance has taken such a large market position and made money, I expect they will pay out at least 1.50 for every 1 taken in…just like the old CNA CAM program. First though, will come profit sharing and commission cuts, which I am sure are on the horizon.