Florida Agency to Fight FEMA Ban on Flood Insurance Commission Rebating

By | April 27, 2012

  • April 27, 2012 at 1:28 pm
    Pete G says:
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    Since the NFIP is a gaping budget hole and premiums are out of alignment with risk, I’d like to know the whole story…

  • April 27, 2012 at 1:40 pm
    Whynot says:
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    Sound like healthy competition to me.

    • April 27, 2012 at 2:52 pm
      FLagent/insured says:
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      What sounds like healthy competition? I’m sure their entire agency is based on this and they stand to lose a lot of money if they cant rebate.

      • April 27, 2012 at 4:49 pm
        Bruce A Kestenbaum says:
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        I would like to respond to the FL/agent/Insured.

        I am the author of the petition. The rebate that agencies in Florida give back to their insured has nothing to do with the rates that are set by FEMA. Rebating is allowed by Florida Statute and by taking the rebate ability away the actual cost for the insurance will increase by the amount the agency rebates.

        Agencies that currently rebate will actually increase their revenue by the amount of the rebate. It is the policyholder that will get the short end of the stick as their flood insurance cost will increase not only by the annual rate increase but also the amount of the rebate.

        Is this fair in a State that allows the Rebating Practice?

        We feel that this is a States right issue and that is why we are pushing the petition.

        We are trying to help not only our clients but other agents clients.

        Please join us in fighting to keep this practice alive by going signing our petition at:

        http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/continue-to-allow-rebating-flood-insurance.html

        • April 29, 2012 at 12:59 pm
          Debra Gesler says:
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          To the author of the petition-
          Be honest with the policyholders- agents aren’t in business to provide free services. While your reason for wanting the practice seems like you’re looking out for the costs of policyholders, in reality, by undercutting other agent’s flood rates, you are hoping to capitalize on cross selling other accounts. It’s nothing more than a marketing ploy- a ploy that most agents aren’t comfortable with. Be upfront and honest. An honest agent deserves to be paid for fair work. Rebating is only a gimmick- that’s why it’s not allowed with most insurance companies.

          Consumers always benefit with healthy competition and a level playing field. Don’t sign the petition.

          • April 30, 2012 at 10:09 am
            Mr. Solvent says:
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            Absolutely right Debra. Unfortunately my post regarding this was taken down likely due to my strong reaction.

            The bottom line is you’re using a maneuver that’s illegal in most states for a reason. It’s a shameful business practice and a slippery slope if allowed to continue.

            Also, it’s not a states’ rights issue when it’s a federal program. Where do you come off with this? As soon as the private market takes flood it’s a states’ rights issue.

          • April 30, 2012 at 10:12 am
            Sarah says:
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            Unfortunately they are being very honest, They want the other lines of coverage and willing to give up all commissions on the flood. In Florida the law says you can not rebate unless you do the same thing for all of your clients. You can rebate but not discriminate against any other policy holder. If you give back your commission on one account for a certain line of coverage you must do it for all of your clients. I think the law should be changed but it is the right of The State of Florida to make its ouw regulations with regards to the proper sales practices within its own State. This again is a Constitutional issue for another Obama Federal Agency looking to take over what the States are legally required to regulate.

          • June 12, 2012 at 12:59 am
            Peter Piper says:
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            You are incorrect and should read the statute.

          • June 12, 2012 at 1:12 am
            Peter Piper says:
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            That is correct, be upfront, 25 percent commission is deserved for hard earned work, you have to pay the 8.00 per hour to those hard working admins who issue your certificates unless it is farmed out to a turn key cert issuing company. So if my NFIP policy is 100,000 then I deserve 25,000 and a 2% annual production bonus
            For my hard work. The insured’s, policy holders, of the condo associations should not get 15,000 back with 30 days to help cushion their non profit budget or to assist in updates and repairs.
            It sure is wrong to rebate, I already have my Bently picked out for 2013 so thank you FEMA

  • April 27, 2012 at 2:52 pm
    Barbara E. Kidd says:
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    Taking action to ensure yet another increase in what Florida condo/home owners must pay in order to insure their property is most likely the last nail in the coffin for the real estate market in this state. Just how much does the legislature think ordinary people can bear. In our community, insuring 186 condos (not luxury garden variety – but east of Rte. 95) is currently costing a total of $270,000 per year (over $3,000 per unit). Our current inside owner coverage costs another $2,000. When Frances and Jean hit our development, we had over $300,000 in insurance covered damages – of which our insurer paid a total of $18,000 after deductibles. The balance – together with uninsured losses cost owners over $5,000 in assessments. We now know you passed a law that will allow Property underwriters to charge us up to 15% more per year without having to be reviewed for merit. How in the world in this economy, with people suffering, and underwriters swimming in profits – can you substantiate that action?

    I for one – and assume there will be many – will not abide much more of this legislative craziness of always supporting business interests over those of ordinary people. I think my own days in Florida are numbered – I don’t think I am going to be able to afford to stay here.

  • April 27, 2012 at 3:45 pm
    MarketExec says:
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    Why would they lose a lot of money? If anything, that agency will get a 15% pay raise. Their clients will stay with them regardless, for two reasons. The first is if rebating is over, then no one can give rebates, so why would they change agencies and pay the same premium? Secondly, and most importantly, when their clients find out how hard these guys down in FL are fighting to keep money in their pockets, they will stay with them out of loyalty.

    • April 30, 2012 at 10:13 am
      Mr. Solvent says:
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      The issue isn’t losing on the existing business I don’t think. I think the real issue is they’ll have to compete on something other than price. Something this agency clearly has no experience with.

  • April 27, 2012 at 7:41 pm
    James Gesler CPCU says:
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    The agency is wrong! Let them compete on an equal basis and the customer will choose them because they offer value not just a lower price.

    • June 12, 2012 at 1:02 am
      Peter Piper says:
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      They are third party administrators – certificate issuers…educate educate educate

  • April 28, 2012 at 5:48 pm
    IMM says:
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    The plainfield needs to be level for everyone thus no rebating should be allowed. Good job FEMA.

    • June 12, 2012 at 1:03 am
      Peter Piper says:
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      Yeah, let’s give the AGENTS a quarter for every dollar spent on NFIP flood and a yearly production bonus weeee..

  • April 30, 2012 at 10:03 am
    Sarah says:
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    As much as I hate the practice of rebating and feel it to be a slap in the face of professional agents just trying to make a living selling a valuable product. America is and always should remain a free market capitalism business environment and the US Constitution gives all of the States the right to regulate their own individual trade. The Obama administration again is allowing a Federal Agency to put their nose in an area that it does not belong. Insurance regulations in the individual states issue.

    You would think that Obama being a supposed law professor would know that, unless he is trying to preempt the Constitution again!

    NOBAMA 2012!

    • April 30, 2012 at 4:35 pm
      SWFL Agent says:
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      Yes, I agree. Each state should set flood rates and fund the flood program. If you’re going to ask the Federal Gov’t to stay out of the way then it needs to be all or nothing.

      • April 30, 2012 at 9:33 pm
        Sarah says:
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        Rates, policy forms, or even funding this program is the responsibility of FEMA A Federal Agency, how it is sold is a State issue and in florida we have our FL.626 statutes which deal with the acceptable sales practices of insurance in the State of Florida.

  • April 30, 2012 at 11:41 am
    Chuck Crist says:
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    I personally would like to thank Mr. Wahl now for the future reduction of the agent’s commission on flood policies. My guess is FEMA will cut the agent’s commission to 5% and reduce the overall premium by 15%. If Mr. Wahl’s agency can operate on keeping just 5% of the flood commission and give such wonderful service then so can all the others. Nice work!

  • April 30, 2012 at 5:14 pm
    Bruce A Kestenbaum says:
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    The ability to rebate has no bearing on whether an agency is good or bad. It is one tool that an agency can use to make them stand out in a very competive industry. America is a free market society the last time I checked. Government regulations are involved to protect the consumer from overpaying for a particular product. The state of Florida simply has stated that if an agent wants to return premium they must not descrimnate as to who gets it.

    It is amazing as to the comments that are against an idea that saves people money.

    Some may not like the practice of rebating, but it is legal in the Florida and it does save the people of Florida a great deal of cost.

    Is that a bad thing?

    • April 30, 2012 at 9:40 pm
      Sarah says:
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      Not a bad thing, but if you want professional advice and assistance after a claim i would not think only about getting a few bucks back in the mail. I would look for an agent with designations and a good reputation rather than the agent who has to give his money back to his customers in order to get customers. But if thats what you want then you deserve all of the service you pay for which will be none. You may not even be able to hold your agent accountable as he gave you his fee ack in return for no service. LOL…..

      • May 2, 2012 at 7:46 am
        Bruce A Kestenbaum says:
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        Your mistake is that no service is given. You are right that price should not dictate if a client should go with a particular policy. However, the service that is provided in our case is second to none. We feel the rebate is an additional service provided to our insureds. That is why our clients stay with us.

        • May 2, 2012 at 10:49 am
          Hillsborough agent says:
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          Then you just got a big raise. So why fight it? If your service is as good as you say, that should be your selling point for new business – not rebates.

          Let’s say I was president of a large association that needed flood insurance. If I told you that I was happy with my current agency for property/liability etc., and just wanted flood from you because you offer rebates, what would you say? Would you write the flood policy?

          • May 10, 2012 at 1:54 pm
            Bruce A Kestenbaum says:
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            I would absoulutely write the flood insurance. Yes hopefully I would be able to convince you to look at your other lines of insurance. And if I did not service your flood to your liking there is no way that I would even get a chance for the other lines.

  • May 2, 2012 at 8:02 am
    Bruce A Kestenbaum says:
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    FOr all of you nay sayers out there on rebating in Florida, I would like to point out a number of facts that are posted on FEMA website.

    1) Since 1978 the NFIP has taken in over $42,500,000,000 in premium and has paid out $38,500,000,000 in claims.

    2) Florida accounts to roughly 29% of the premium and less than 10% of the Claims.

    The Citizens of Florida deserve a chance to recoup some of their premium back.

    Rebating is a legal way to give some of the money back. The agencies that decide that they do not need additional income to service an insured should be applauded not ridiculed. This is America and free competition is the founding principal.

    Yes Rebating is a marketing stategy, but it is not hurting the policyholder.

    If you are an agent and complaining that a rebating agency is taking advanatage of the client, than I would ask you to look in the mirror and ask your self if you really are doing the best for your client.

    Enough complaining and realize that this is a good thing for the clients. It does not affect the program. It does not take money away from the program. It gives premium dollars back to insureds in a state that is subsidizing the entire program.

    • May 2, 2012 at 9:03 am
      Chuck Crist says:
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      1) Since 1978 the NFIP has taken in over $42,500,000,000 in premium and has paid out $38,500,000,000 in claims.
      Factor in the 20% commission paid to agents and NFIP is losing money. If Tri-County says it can work on a 5% commission, I wonder where NFIP may think a good place to make up some of the loss?
      2) How’s Tri-County’s service on Flood only accounts? No way any of us will believe it is the same as accounts where you used a price sale to get the other lines.
      3) NFIP, FEMA, … None of them want to try to police this rebating action to ensure that it is being done across the board for all clients. They are already losing money on the program.

  • May 8, 2012 at 10:45 pm
    Gene Metzger says:
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    Ok..so how do I “sign” this petition?

    • May 10, 2012 at 1:52 pm
      Bruce A Kestenbaum says:
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      Gene YOu can sign the petition at our website http://www.statewidecondo.com. There is a direct link their that takes you right to our petition where you can sign it.

      Thanks for your interest.

  • June 12, 2012 at 12:35 am
    Peter piper says:
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    First you go north on I 95 for about 700 miles, the look for the exit, Bronx down town, there will be a lady with a shopping cart selling pickled wieners and boiled nuts…ask for the rebate petition special and you’s will be all hooked up.

  • June 12, 2012 at 12:56 am
    Peter Piper says:
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    Rebating 101
    Read the statute before posting.
    True or false:
    Rebates are based upon commission?
    Rebates are based upon Premium?
    Insureds pay 25 cents for every 1.00 spent on NFIP policy in the form of commission?
    Agencys are contracted with WYO companies who pay agents 25 cents in commission per every 1.00 spent on NFIP flood policy premium?
    Agents are third party administrators of NFIP policies?
    Every 1.00 spent on an NFIP policy to an agent (agency) is for the third party administration of a certificate of insurance?
    Every claim is handled not by the agent but by the WYO carriers claims administrator?
    REMEMBER THIS IS TRUE OR FALSE
    Agency owners get production bonuses for premium written new and renewed annually?
    Direct carriers pay 6 percent and can not afford to rebate?
    FEMA NEEDS TO LOWER COMMISSIONS?
    REBATES EXIST BECAUSE SOME OVER COMPENSATED CARRIERS WERE ABLE TO PAY ENOUNGH COMMISSION TO THEIR AGENT TO VALIDATE THE RETURN OF COMMISSION?
    Now here is the final question, not a true or false and I don’t think one poster will provide the CORRECT answer.
    Who was the first company in florida contracted to rebate by a WYO carrier to offer a 10 percent Rebate?

    • June 21, 2012 at 9:25 am
      Bruce A Kestenbaum says:
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      Dear Peter Piper:

      I will gladely answer your true/false however I will make some additional comments to the answers.

      True or false:
      Rebates are based upon commission?

      True

      Rebates are based upon Premium?

      False (Commissions are based on premiums)

      Insureds pay 25 cents for every 1.00 spent on NFIP policy in the form of commission?

      False (Companies have the ability to negotiate commission % with agencies. Can pay up to 25% but that is not norm)

      Agencys are contracted with WYO companies who pay agents 25 cents in commission per every 1.00 spent on NFIP flood policy premium?

      Again False (Agencies can negotiate commission % with WYO companies up to the 25%.)

      Agents are third party administrators of NFIP policies?

      False (Agencies are appointed by the WYO companies. The agency is the agent for the particular policy he writes. He services the account like any other policy in his book he writes. This is not a third party adminstrator)

      Every 1.00 spent on an NFIP policy to an agent (agency) is for the third party administration of a certificate of insurance?

      False (This depends on the agency and how much work that particular agent wants to spend on the policy. Some agency do the bear minimum and others will service the client to a much greater degree. Certificates of insurance is only one part of what should make up the servicing of an account.)

      Every claim is handled not by the agent but by the WYO carriers claims administrator?

      False (Again this depends on the agency. Some agencies choose to get more involved in claims while others choose not to.)

      REMEMBER THIS IS TRUE OR FALSE

      Agency owners get production bonuses for premium written new and renewed annually?

      False (This depends on the company and the agreement that the agency has with that company. Some companies will pay less commissions and will pay an override. Some companies will pay on commissions. FEMA allows a certain level of commissions to be paid. The WYO will allot how they are paid.)

      Direct carriers pay 6 percent and can not afford to rebate?

      Do not Know answer but if this is true, than the direct carrier company is keeping more the extra 19% in addition to their servicing fee.

      FEMA NEEDS TO LOWER COMMISSIONS?
      REBATES EXIST BECAUSE SOME OVER COMPENSATED CARRIERS WERE ABLE TO PAY ENOUNGH COMMISSION TO THEIR AGENT TO VALIDATE THE RETURN OF COMMISSION?

      This is up to FEMA. If an agency chooses to make less on a particular policy and give that back to his client and the State Law allows it, why is that a bad thing. We are in a Capitalist society and what a person chooses to earn is his business as long as it does not break any laws.

      Now here is the final question, not a true or false and I don’t think one poster will provide the CORRECT answer.

      Who was the first company in florida contracted to rebate by a WYO carrier to offer a 10 percent Rebate?

      Statewide Condominium Insurance was the first insurance agency to conceptualize and offer rebated flood policies. We have been rebating for 15 years.

      Please visit our website at http://www.statewidecondo.com and sign our petition to keep rebating alive.



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