What does, Libby? An employee told to do something not in his job description , I thought, constituted Employer’s Liability. Just what is Employer’s Liability (without using Workers’ Comp in definition like “anything not WC”)?
WC prohibits bringing suit against work related injuries, but Employers Liability is used when the employer can be sued in a “dual capacity.” For instance:
The insured is a ladder manufacturer. The claimant, a maintenance worker, is injured when the ladder he is using breaks causing him to fall and injure himself.
The claimant has WC for the work-related injury, but can also sue the insured under strict liability as the manufacturer of the ladder.
Also, some venues (Chicago is one that I know of) will allow an EL suit against the insured as a GC, while collecting WC as an employee of the GC.
“The claimant has WC for the work-related injury, but can also sue the insured under strict liability as the manufacturer of the ladder, which is excluded by the GL.”
September 2, 2014 at 6:13 pm
Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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The statutes are very clear on this one. If it’s kickball, then WC applies. If you get kicked in the balls, EL applies.
August 29, 2014 at 2:07 pm
Hmmmm says:
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I believe the point was that since he organized the game on behalf of the employer for “team building” excercise, he was expected to also attend. His attendance was greater than the other team members. Fine line on this one. If the employer is agreeing (or at least somewhat agreeing) with the WC benefits applying that it was a required event for the injured worker due to his putting this event together, I don’t think it was a bad decision. It was needed to have a hearing to look closer at the event and the injured employees role to make the exception.
I absolutely agree with the court’s statement “A specific act need not be designated in an employee’s job description to be compensable”. Many of us are called to perform “other duties as assigned” regardless of our actual job description.
I can understand his attendance could be considered part of his job duties since he planned it. His participation in the actual event is very thin. Bad ruling.
I think they are still under the impression he got kicked in the balls. After all, you play kickball in phys ed in elementary school. Gotta love this “new age” corporate team building.
“We hired you based on your kickball abilities so we could beat our crosstown rivals. Apparently we were misled.”
I agree; I don’t feel the need to bond with the people in my department. If I’m friends with someone at work, great. If not, no problem, I’ll still get all my work done. I don’t understand the need for team building or activities that take time away from my work. If I’m not at my desk, my work just accumulates – it doesn’t stop just because the boss decided we (the entire department) need to bond.
I think that’s why only 50% of employees showed up. There are many that do not want to participate in these types of events and they shouldn’t be forced to. But on the other hand, there are others that get alot out of team building outside the office. I see it both ways.
I actually disagree. We used to go out at 2:30 every Friday to play whiffleball, disc golf, film movies, ultimate frisbee, and a number of other activities and it kept employees in great spirits. Then, the vice president of the company who encouraged these activities left. The extracurriculars ceased. Employees started feeling under appreciated and overworked. We then went through the greatest turnover in the history of the company, me included (albeit for a greater opportunity, not the whiffleball). We lost some great employees and everyone was still getting their work done. In fact, people were more likely to offer help back in those days.
How great could those employees have been if they left the company because they lost Friday afternoon playtime? AND all the work was still getting done without them?
Oh, you must have meant that they were great at “whiffleball, disc golf, filming movies, ultimate frisbee, and a number of other activities”.
I think the days of getting paid to simply occupy a desk chair or cubicle are pretty much behind us. You actually have to bring value to your employer now. If I’m doing such a great job at that, please don’t reward me with whiffleball on Friday afternoon. I’m a professional, not an eigth grader.
Wow, phoenix. You sound like a bitter old man. I don’t think it was the Friday afternoon playtime that made them leave. It was a whole shift in culture and philosophy from the top. Instead of being a place where you wanted to come work and work hard, it turned into an oppressive atmosphere. Probably because someone like you was running the place.
If by “oppressive atmosphere” you mean that employees are expected to put in a full day’s work for a full day’s pay, then then I guess I’m guilty of creating such an atmosphere. If employees want to play games they have 16 more hours in the day to play all the kickball and whiffleball they want. Do only bitter old men like me expect employees to actually work during office hours?
You’re missing my point, phoenix. When you have a positive work environment, you will actually get more work out of your employees. I used to work until 7 or 8 at night if I had to and didn’t mind a bit. But if things were slow, I was allowed to take off and enjoy an afternoon.
If you’d rather stick to the 9 to 5’ers that won’t stay until 5:01, by all means do that. But that’s all you’re going to get. Nothing more. I feel sorry for your employees. Try treating them like human beings instead of machines for hire and you might just find you don’t need as many.
So, naturally, the employer fired the other 1/2 half of the employees for not attending, yes? I mean, it was required wasn’t it?
Employers’ Liability or WC??? I would think Employers’ Liability would be more accurate.
It definitely doesn’t qualify as Employers Liability.
What does, Libby? An employee told to do something not in his job description , I thought, constituted Employer’s Liability. Just what is Employer’s Liability (without using Workers’ Comp in definition like “anything not WC”)?
WC prohibits bringing suit against work related injuries, but Employers Liability is used when the employer can be sued in a “dual capacity.” For instance:
The insured is a ladder manufacturer. The claimant, a maintenance worker, is injured when the ladder he is using breaks causing him to fall and injure himself.
The claimant has WC for the work-related injury, but can also sue the insured under strict liability as the manufacturer of the ladder.
Also, some venues (Chicago is one that I know of) will allow an EL suit against the insured as a GC, while collecting WC as an employee of the GC.
I forgot to add:
“The claimant has WC for the work-related injury, but can also sue the insured under strict liability as the manufacturer of the ladder, which is excluded by the GL.”
The statutes are very clear on this one. If it’s kickball, then WC applies. If you get kicked in the balls, EL applies.
I believe the point was that since he organized the game on behalf of the employer for “team building” excercise, he was expected to also attend. His attendance was greater than the other team members. Fine line on this one. If the employer is agreeing (or at least somewhat agreeing) with the WC benefits applying that it was a required event for the injured worker due to his putting this event together, I don’t think it was a bad decision. It was needed to have a hearing to look closer at the event and the injured employees role to make the exception.
I absolutely agree with the court’s statement “A specific act need not be designated in an employee’s job description to be compensable”. Many of us are called to perform “other duties as assigned” regardless of our actual job description.
I can understand his attendance could be considered part of his job duties since he planned it. His participation in the actual event is very thin. Bad ruling.
His attendance at the event may have been considered part of his employment, but his participation in the game was not. A very bad ruling.
I think they are still under the impression he got kicked in the balls. After all, you play kickball in phys ed in elementary school. Gotta love this “new age” corporate team building.
“We hired you based on your kickball abilities so we could beat our crosstown rivals. Apparently we were misled.”
A coworker of mine blew his ACL in a touch football game at a company sponsored picnic. It was work comp. (He was actually one of the event hosts)
Who the hell breaks their leg in two places playing kickball?
What grown man goes to his boss asking if he and his work buddies can play kickball during the workday?
Does anybody in this country simply go to work, do their job, then go home?
“Team building exercises” are bs excuses to goof off and have fun. I’ll take a dozen individual achievers over a hundred “team members” any day.
I agree; I don’t feel the need to bond with the people in my department. If I’m friends with someone at work, great. If not, no problem, I’ll still get all my work done. I don’t understand the need for team building or activities that take time away from my work. If I’m not at my desk, my work just accumulates – it doesn’t stop just because the boss decided we (the entire department) need to bond.
I think that’s why only 50% of employees showed up. There are many that do not want to participate in these types of events and they shouldn’t be forced to. But on the other hand, there are others that get alot out of team building outside the office. I see it both ways.
Otherwise known as “mandatory fun” (that would be a good name for a Wierd Al album).
I actually disagree. We used to go out at 2:30 every Friday to play whiffleball, disc golf, film movies, ultimate frisbee, and a number of other activities and it kept employees in great spirits. Then, the vice president of the company who encouraged these activities left. The extracurriculars ceased. Employees started feeling under appreciated and overworked. We then went through the greatest turnover in the history of the company, me included (albeit for a greater opportunity, not the whiffleball). We lost some great employees and everyone was still getting their work done. In fact, people were more likely to offer help back in those days.
How great could those employees have been if they left the company because they lost Friday afternoon playtime? AND all the work was still getting done without them?
Oh, you must have meant that they were great at “whiffleball, disc golf, filming movies, ultimate frisbee, and a number of other activities”.
I think the days of getting paid to simply occupy a desk chair or cubicle are pretty much behind us. You actually have to bring value to your employer now. If I’m doing such a great job at that, please don’t reward me with whiffleball on Friday afternoon. I’m a professional, not an eigth grader.
Wow, phoenix. You sound like a bitter old man. I don’t think it was the Friday afternoon playtime that made them leave. It was a whole shift in culture and philosophy from the top. Instead of being a place where you wanted to come work and work hard, it turned into an oppressive atmosphere. Probably because someone like you was running the place.
If by “oppressive atmosphere” you mean that employees are expected to put in a full day’s work for a full day’s pay, then then I guess I’m guilty of creating such an atmosphere. If employees want to play games they have 16 more hours in the day to play all the kickball and whiffleball they want. Do only bitter old men like me expect employees to actually work during office hours?
You’re missing my point, phoenix. When you have a positive work environment, you will actually get more work out of your employees. I used to work until 7 or 8 at night if I had to and didn’t mind a bit. But if things were slow, I was allowed to take off and enjoy an afternoon.
If you’d rather stick to the 9 to 5’ers that won’t stay until 5:01, by all means do that. But that’s all you’re going to get. Nothing more. I feel sorry for your employees. Try treating them like human beings instead of machines for hire and you might just find you don’t need as many.